Nashville school shooting

[Jwb]

So the chances of your AR-15/gun somehow miraculously helping you out in a beef with the police is miniscule compared to the chance that you're gonna get hurt by someone else's AR-15/gun. It might be your neighbours, a colleague, a guy whose car you bump into.

You're focusing on the wrong things. It looks bonkers from the outside.

that's also true of other guns is the main problem.

I don't oppose a ban on AR's in principle, it's just i don't think it will be an easy fight and I'm skeptical as to what true decrease in death count we will see as the result. Like i said,  i would be fine with it if they tried it.  Republicans will fight you on it though.

But what i expect to happen is that people will shift to using pistols. And i think they will use slightly different tactics and maybe in some cases pick different targets.  But they won't stop committing these mass shootings as long as there are so many options for doing so.  And i don't expect that overall the numbers would be that significantly different. And you are dealing with a fraction of a fraction of the shootings in this country in the first place.  Pistols are used in the vast majority of overall shootings.  These AR style guns are very rarely used in any crime other than mass shootings.

[SGR]

i know most people think this is a ridiculous thing to worry about or that our weapons we have against home invasion don't deter psychopathic cops but i don't believe it - they're also cowards and poop their trousers if they find out their victim is armed

the second amendment is a fascism killer and a revolutionary cornerstone

Wait, I thought earlier you were supporting banning all guns from everyone? Is that like "in an ideal world" sort of deal - where our government/police force wasn't armed?

consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds

i simultaneously support contradictory ideas and i think people who don't are simpletons, frankly

Ah I'm now remembering, we've had this argument before on MB - and we disagree about it, but that's okay.

[Guybrush]

So the chances of your AR-15/gun somehow miraculously helping you out in a beef with the police is miniscule compared to the chance that you're gonna get hurt by someone else's AR-15/gun. It might be your neighbours, a colleague, a guy whose car you bump into.

You're focusing on the wrong things. It looks bonkers from the outside.

that's also true of other guns is the main problem.

I don't oppose a ban on AR's in principle, it's just i don't think it will be an easy fight and I'm skeptical as to what true decrease in death count we will see as the result. Like i said,  i would be fine with it if they tried it.  Republicans will fight you on it though.

But what i expect to happen is that people will shift to using pistols. And i think they will use slightly different tactics and maybe in some cases pick different targets.  But they won't stop committing these mass shootings as long as there are so many options for doing so.  And i don't expect that overall the numbers would be that significantly different. And you are dealing with a fraction of a fraction of the shootings in this country in the first place.  Pistols are used in the vast majority of overall shootings.  These AR style guns are very rarely used in any crime other than mass shootings.

My point was more about having guns as defense against cops isn't a good idea because arming society increases risk to yourself from other sources/people. That increased risk is going to be way bigger than the reality of the imagined benefit.

But about ARs, possibly, most of the harm they do is psychological in either contributing to gun nuttery (because I just assume a lot of people think they're cool and want them) OR that they cause fear and remind people that they are living in a violent society with dangerous people.

[Jwb]

I mean OH is definitely right that they're deadlier and more menacing even to the cops.  I just think if we had virtually the same problem but people were shooting up schools using strictly pistols, we are underestimating how similar that would seem to the current situation.  The psychological terror inflicted by mass shootings is not primarily a function of how scary the gun looks.

[Toy Revolver]

So the chances of your AR-15/gun somehow miraculously helping you out in a beef with the police is miniscule compared to the chance that you're gonna get hurt by someone else's AR-15/gun. It might be your neighbours, a colleague, a guy whose car you bump into.

You're focusing on the wrong things. It looks bonkers from the outside.

that's also true of other guns is the main problem.

I don't oppose a ban on AR's in principle, it's just i don't think it will be an easy fight and I'm skeptical as to what true decrease in death count we will see as the result. Like i said,  i would be fine with it if they tried it.  Republicans will fight you on it though.

But what i expect to happen is that people will shift to using pistols. And i think they will use slightly different tactics and maybe in some cases pick different targets.  But they won't stop committing these mass shootings as long as there are so many options for doing so.  And i don't expect that overall the numbers would be that significantly different. And you are dealing with a fraction of a fraction of the shootings in this country in the first place.  Pistols are used in the vast majority of overall shootings.  These AR style guns are very rarely used in any crime other than mass shootings.

My point was more about having guns as defense against cops isn't a good idea because arming society increases risk to yourself from other sources/people. That increased risk is going to be way bigger than the reality of the imagined benefit.

But about ARs, possibly, most of the harm they do is psychological in either contributing to gun nuttery (because I just assume a lot of people think they're cool and want them) OR that they cause fear and remind people that they are living in a violent society with dangerous people.

this is a real advertisement

[jadis]

In terms of the motivation behind the shootings, would it still be as attractive if you have to carry it out with the same gun as the fat mall cop carries? The fact that you get to kill people with a badass looking weapon must tie into this somehow. Part of what made Columbine (the big one for my generation) so memorable is that they had some scary looking guns

[Guybrush]

this is a real advertisement

Wow.

It's weird how different societies can be. A marketing campaign like that here would be considered stupid and offensive here.

I also don't see commercials blatantly playing the male insecurity card here at least not much since awareness about toxic masculinity became a thing.

[Toy Revolver]

A marketing campaign like that here would be considered stupid and offensive here.
 

it's considered stupid and offensive here too

but they're targeting a very "small" part of the population

[Guybrush]

it's considered stupid and offensive here too

but they're targeting a very "small" part of the population

I see.. the small part that bites when told they can become realer men if only they have an assault rifle. So ridiculous

[SGR]

it's considered stupid and offensive here too

but they're targeting a very "small" part of the population

I see.. the small part that bites when told they can become realer men if only they have an assault rifle. So ridiculous

The same demographic that buys a giant gas-guzzling pickup truck and ends up only using the bed of the truck when their friends/family ask them to help during a move.

[jadis]

In terms of the motivation behind the shootings, would it still be as attractive if you have to carry it out with the same gun as the fat mall cop carries? The fact that you get to kill people with a badass looking weapon must tie into this somehow. Part of what made Columbine (the big one for my generation) so memorable is that they had some scary looking guns

yep

"I'm still waiting for a mass shooter who eschews 9mm pistols and instead buys an AK-47 pistol, 30 30-round magazines, and 1000 hollow points," Lanza posted in a forum about the Columbine High School shooting in January 2011.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/adam-lanzas-terrifying-online-life-revealed-mass-shooting-spreadsheets-columbine-collages-and-murder-tumblrs

[SGR]

Did you see that recently (within the last year or so), they found Lanza's Youtube account? He posted a bunch of weird stuff, mostly him soliloquizing about various things. I downloaded a giant zip file of it when it was available. He was a weird dude.

[jadis]

Nope but he's one of the few who actually look completely deranged. What's shocking is how many of them don't

[SGR]

All I know is I wouldn't stand a chance against him in Dance Dance Revolution

[Jwb]

If the VA tech shooting happened before columbine,  we would remember it instead.  Columbine was just the beginning of the trend of these school shootings. That's why it's remembered more than anything else.  The shocking part is the innocent kids being gunned down,  not the choice of gun.

As for would they bother if they had to use a pistol? The answer is a reasounding yes. In the UK people resort to knife attacks and running people over with cars.  If you think a mass murderer can be easily deterred by restricting them to pistols i think you have another thing coming.  And most mass shooters bring a pistol with them even if they do use an AR as their main weapon.  The idea that killing scores of innocent people with a pistol isn't "cool enough" and that they wouldn't bother as a result seems to underestimate how badly someone has to want to kill in order to carry out such an attack in the first place.  Obviously they prefer xyz weapon but at the end of the day they will absolutely settle for something else if need be.