Trump Redux: The Death of Democracy, or Overblown Hyperbole?

[DJChameleon]

With Trump, his ego is so gigantic that I can imagine him ignoring the advice of everyone else around him and going ahead with tariffs in spite of them.

On the other hand, I'm cynical enough to wonder if this was done just to manipulate the stock market.

He even posted telling people it's a good day to buy or something along those lines before they announced the pause it's pure manipulation.

[Buck_Mulligan]

Another way to look at it is that the bond market now knows they have Trump on a leash. It was the bond market not the stock market that caused him to move.

[SGR]

Another way to look at it is that the bond market now knows they have Trump on a leash. It was the bond market not the stock market that caused him to move.

I can't help myself but to drop another piece of James Carville wisdom - a quote of his back from the '90s:

I used to think that if there was reincarnation, I wanted to come back as the president or the pope or as a .400 baseball hitter. But now I would like to come back as the bond market. You can intimidate everybody.

[Lexi Darling]

Good afternoon! I'm in a bit of a better headspace for posting political news again. Here's a couple articles that are absolutely terrifying. First up:

SAVE Act: House Passes GOP Voting Bill That Could Disenfranchise Millions

And on the subject of deportations:

White House Press Sec Says Trump's Seriously Considering Deporting US Citizens

Pressed for evidence against Mahmoud Khalil, government cites its power to deport people for beliefs

If you don't think all of this will be a direct through line to the government deporting literally anyone who they perceive to be 'out of line', I believe that way of thinking to be foolishly short sighted. There's a reason they've been pushing propagandist statements against pro-Palestine protesters (antisemites!), anti-Tesla protesters (terrorists!), queer people (child abusers!), etc, it's to justify and normalize shit like this. Their rhetoric and who that rhetoric focuses on has been a pretty obvious telegraphing of their intentions if you are paying enough attention.

[Trollheart]

Possibly a stupid question, but what precedent exists for deporting US citizens? Doesn't citizenship guarantee you certain rights, or are we to take it those rights are now revokable by the Trump Nazministration? Isn't there a little something called the Constitution?

[Lexi Darling]

Possibly a stupid question, but what precedent exists for deporting US citizens? Doesn't citizenship guarantee you certain rights, or are we to take it those rights are now revokable by the Trump Nazministration? Isn't there a little something called the Constitution?

Theoretically no. But given that Trump and his ghouls have already ignored plenty of laws and established that these deportations have no obligation to due process, I don't think it's far fetched to suggest that it will happen regardless of it being unconstitutional. If they can ignore due process, they don't need to prove that the deportees weren't US born citizens.

There's also something to be said about the distinction between being deported and being detained and trafficked into prison camps, the latter I'd imagine being easier for them to justify, though I'm no expert on subjects like that so if others who know more could weigh in, that would be lovely.

Also, remember that the US forcibly interned tens of thousands of American citizens of Japanese descent during WW2. There is absolutely precedent for things that are not far off from this.

[Trollheart]

True, but that was at a time of war, not a trade war. Surely someone in his party is going to see this as a bridge too far? After all, today deporting innocent US citizens, tomorrow deporting cronies who aren't "loyal" enough...

[Auroras In Ice]

Possibly a stupid question, but what precedent exists for deporting US citizens? Doesn't citizenship guarantee you certain rights, or are we to take it those rights are now revokable by the Trump Nazministration? Isn't there a little something called the Constitution?

Courts have been ruling against this insanity as it is blatantly illegal and unconstitutional, but the Trump admin is simply ignoring it all and doing whatever it wants anyway. This came up earlier with the examples of legal immigrants being deported without due process. Contrary to right-wing feels and opinion, they also have the same constitutional rights as citizens. That's been ignored by Trump even against court rulings. Since nobody stopped that, they (predictably... to some) have started gearing up to do the same thing to citizens. Since what's left of the US gov which Elon has been shredding to bits has been packed with Trump sycophants, and the supreme court has been in his pocket for years, there's no institutional constraints left to hold any of this back. The Democrats are functionally useless, so no real resistance there. Trump's cult and enablers are cheering it on because they don't actually care about law and order or the constitution, and denialists have mostly shut the fuck up or are doing the usual song and dance of moving goalposts and bizarre sophistry to dismiss it all.

For me, what's happened over just a couple months has far exceeded things even I considered hyperbole as recent as December. I expected this process to take a couple years, not a few weeks. Not sure if I linked it here before, but even the architect of Project 2025 is saying this is all proceeding "beyond his wildest dreams" (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/03/16/project-2025-paul-dans-qa-00228890).

[Auroras In Ice]

True, but that was at a time of war, not a trade war. Surely someone in his party is going to see this as a bridge too far? After all, today deporting innocent US citizens, tomorrow deporting cronies who aren't "loyal" enough...

Doesn't matter. The Trump admin invoked the Enemy Aliens Act of 1798 (also something I discussed earlier) which laid down the incredibly frivolous institutional framework they are doing all of this under (or it's the primary justification, rather). Since they declared cartels or whatever as terrorist entities, they stuff all of this under the umbrella as threats to national security. It's the same thing that was used to justify Japanese internment camps.

[SGR]

True, but that was at a time of war, not a trade war.

There's also this, during the Great Depression - most of them being American citizens. But back then, I think it was 'implicitly' supported by the executive branch, but not explicitly supported.

The Deportation Campaigns of the Great Depression

[Buck_Mulligan]

Just to be clear, SCOTUS approved Trump's ability to deport under the AEA but only after the detainees had been afforded their constitutional right to notice and a judicial review. This of course is not what happened. The case is now scheduled to be refiled in Texas, and will have to go through the appellate process if necessary.

[Trollheart]

It really is shock and fucking awe, isn't it? We're just getting over reeling from massive trade tariffs and having to maybe pay 8 million Euros for an egg (and 20 million for an Easter Egg, fuck my sister's kids!) when that sort of vanishes, and with the sleight of hand of the biggest illusionist and trickster in town, now anyone can be deported, or refused entry to the USA for reasons. Jesus on a revoked Green Card!

Don't you feel dizzy? I feel dizzy. Think I may need to go lie down.

[Buck_Mulligan]

WaPo

Supreme Court upholds order directing Trump officials to return wrongly deported man from Salvadoran prison
The court on Thursday upheld a lower-court order requiring the Trump administration to "facilitate" the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported last month to a mega-prison in El Salvador.

Also, SCOTUS ruled in favor of the AP over their ban from the WH press room.

[Trollheart]

Who's willing to bet that between the El Salvador govt and what passes at the moment for the US one, they've, um, misplaced the guy? Like, they only sent him into the steaming fetid jungle with no food or water and only a small fruit knife to protect himself as a JOKE, man, but as he didn't understand the language, well, what can you do? 

[Buck_Mulligan]

WaPo...

6,000 living immigrants added to Social Security death database as part of Trump's crackdown
The classification makes it hard for immigrants to work or receive benefits in the United States as administration officials put pressure on undocumented immigrants to leave the country. Some current and former Social Security officials question the legality of the practice. A White House official said the targets have criminal histories or terrorist ties but did not provide evidence.

[/color] So it was deliberate rather than accidental.