2024 Republican Primary

[Lexi Darling]

1.  The federal government isn't going to be able to force people via legislation who disagree with the APA and others about what a woman is, what a man is, etc, which is essentially the root of the culture war. Abortion has also been a contentious issue for decades in its own way, but it doesn't even begin to compare to what is going on currently.  The people who cross certain lines as far as "hate speech" goes tend to get arrested for one thing or another as it is.  If you push those boundaries further(for instance, trying an authoritarian measure that would go after people for not using the right pronouns)

Like DJ said, this is not about forcing anyone to do or think anything. It's about protecting trans people, and GNC and LGBT people in general. Anti-drag laws and hormone bans are what we're talking about, not "forcing people to agree on what a woman/man is". The Supreme Court reversed decades old decisions, and recently ruled in favor of discrimination by businesses. Please do not try to tell a trans person what this is and isn't about. My friends in Missouri and Florida have had their hormone prescriptions abruptly stopped. And nobody gets arrested for transphobic hate speech, what planet are you living on?

You seem to assume the worst of us, like we're going to legally force you to recognize trans people's gender or face arrest. You can totally ignore trans people if you want, like everyone else did for the first 17 years of my transition and before, until the republican thugs started with the "groomer" rhetoric. This is about standing up for our rights to healthcare and equal and fair treatment by the the law. You don't have to do that, we can agree to disagree, but so much of what you're saying is not happening, and a lot of it is beside the point anyway. This is not personal, I do not see it as a reflection on your character, but please listen to trans voices here.

[Lisnaholic]

Here's one at-a-glance look at Federal spending, though it has percentages, not numbers like your $247 billion, Nimbly:-



Every country in the world, afaik, has eye-watering losses and wastage of public money. I used to read about the European Union's incompetent mismangagement of Euro-billions until it became too depressing, so America is not alone on that score.

Also, for a bit of international comparison, Britain under Mrs. Thatcher suffered a huge overhaul of local tax collection. Not mentioned much in her plans was the cost of making the change. I don't have a figure, but again it was a horrendous quantity of money, in order to change one system-with-flaws for a different system-with-flaws. I really wouldn't wish that on America.

To demolish the FBI and IRS would cause chaos and cost so much to rebuild from the ground up that the process itself would probably wipe out any benefits of a leaner system for decades to come. That's why it surprises me that some US politicians speak in these irresponsible soundbites and slogans: imo, they should know better than to encourage such impractical ideas.

[SGR]

I'm guessing this is where Nimbly got the figure of $247 billion:

The federal government wastes at least $247 billion in taxpayer money each year. Here's how

Interestingly, here's a snippit from the article (emphasis mine):

The U.S. government wastes billions of taxpayer dollars every year.

Improper payments, which refer to payments that are made incorrectly by the government, cost the U.S. $247 billion in 2022, according to the Government Accountability Office. The U.S. government has lost almost $2.4 trillion in simple payment errors over the last two decades, by GAO estimates.

"The government has just lost, as if you dropped it on the sidewalk, trillions and trillions of dollars over the last few decades," said Richard Stern, a budget and spending expert from the Heritage Foundation. "That is money that was stolen from hardworking Americans to just simply get wasted."

How the hell does that happen? Beyond the obvious idea that the money is getting funneled/laundered to privately enrich individuals? If that's not the case here, I'm reminded of the comments Donald Rumsfeld made before 9/11 about the Pentagon not being able to account for where 2.3 trillion dollars went. Based on the article linked, it would seem like our government's accounting and auditing practices have not really improved since then.

[Lisnaholic]

Thanks for giving us the source of the $247 billion figure, SGR.

How the hell does that happen? Beyond the obvious idea that the money is getting funneled/laundered to privately enrich individuals? If that's not the case here, I'm reminded of the comments Donald Rumsfeld made before 9/11 about the Pentagon not being able to account for where 2.3 trillion dollars went. Based on the article linked, it would seem like our government's accounting and auditing practices have not really improved since then.

Yep, I share your outrage. At high levels of government there's a hard-to-believe mismanagement of funds going on, and seemingly no-one is held accountable.

Remember the Covid bail-out packages? In both Britain and the US vast quantities of that money were squandered on phoney/unworthy candidates. At first it made me think that with these large-scale government schemes it's just impossible to track where each dollar is going: that financial inefficiency is part of what happens when the turnover, or the scheme itself, is so large. But then I thought: in the world of commerce, this kind of stuff is buttoned up tight. I never hear of mega-companies like Coca-Cola or Amazon saying to their share-holders, "oops! $247 billion has gone missing!" So yeah, these government agencies should have their feet held to the fire, imo, and be called to account for the public money that passes through their hands. 

[Nimbly9]

That kind of information would numb even the warmest hearted democracy-supporting taxpayer if they were aware of the full extent of it.  Ya'll can hate on me if you want, but I keep my expectations of government somewhere between the bottom of the Mariana Trench and my basement level floor.  Who needs conspiracy theories or culture wars when the level of incompetence is so bad that you can't even fully wrap your mind around it.

[DJChameleon]

Thanks for giving us the source of the $247 billion figure, SGR.

Yep, I share your outrage. At high levels of government there's a hard-to-believe mismanagement of funds going on, and seemingly no-one is held accountable.

Remember the Covid bail-out packages? In both Britain and the US vast quantities of that money were squandered on phoney/unworthy candidates. At first it made me think that with these large-scale government schemes it's just impossible to track where each dollar is going: that financial inefficiency is part of what happens when the turnover, or the scheme itself, is so large. But then I thought: in the world of commerce, this kind of stuff is buttoned up tight. I never hear of mega-companies like Coca-Cola or Amazon saying to their share-holders, "oops! $247 billion has gone missing!" So yeah, these government agencies should have their feet held to the fire, imo, and be called to account for the public money that passes through their hands. 

Most of the missing money from government agencies comes from them overpricing items and of course pocketing it to certain individuals but as far as covid funds go. Unworthy individuals are currently in the process of being tracked down they are arresting them left and right. All those people that created fake LLCs to get PPP loan money are getting tracked down.

I hate when right wingers are so whiney about their tax dollars and how it's spent. You have NEVER been able to give input about how your tax money is spent. You just have to pay them. If you don't want to pay taxes move to a country that doesn't make you pay taxes to be a contributing member of society. Good luck with that by the way. This isn't directed at you Lisna I just mean in general.

[SGR]

I would tell anyone to aim to "move" elsewhere if they are unhappy where they are for any reason. Nobody can guarantee outcomes for you, so the best choice if you really hate where you are is to take steps to go somewhere else, even if it is just baby steps.  People have been doing it for thousands of years and they'll be doing it long after I'm dead.  Changing your environment is a million times more feasible than waiting around on lawmakers to do something that'll benefit you directly.

2. Don't take what politicians say lightly they can and do make changes to policies that are harmful to people's lives on the regular.

Also no way in hell is it easier to just pack up your whole life and move. You are speaking from a privileged point of view right now. Most people are struggling to get their basic needs meet and adding moving costs to that is not realistic.

Most of the missing money from government agencies comes from them overpricing items and of course pocketing it to certain individuals but as far as covid funds go. Unworthy individuals are currently in the process of being tracked down they are arresting them left and right. All those people that created fake LLCs to get PPP loan money are getting tracked down.

I hate when right wingers are so whiney about their tax dollars and how it's spent. You have NEVER been able to give input about how your tax money is spent. You just have to pay them. If you don't want to pay taxes move to a country that doesn't make you pay taxes to be a contributing member of society. Good luck with that by the way. This isn't directed at you Lisna I just mean in general.

And so we've come full circle.

[DJChameleon]

And so we've come full circle.

That's the point of telling them to "just move" it's the same lame argument that they like to use so I throw it back in their face it was intentional. I have done it before.

[Nimbly9]

That's the point of telling them to "just move" it's the same lame argument that they like to use so I throw it back in their face it was intentional. I have done it before.

People have always "just moved" for all kinds of reasons.  That's how you got America in the first place.

[DJChameleon]

People have always "just moved" for all kinds of reasons.  That's how you got America in the first place.

Do you know what it takes to leave your whole life behind and "just move" to another country?

[Nimbly9]

Do you know what it takes to leave your whole life behind and "just move" to another country?

Sure, and it isn't relevant to the fact that people still do it anyway and have done so repeatedly. Don't take the conveniences of the modern world for granted.  Try putting yourself in the shoes of people in eras where it took months or even years to reach a destination and where your life expectancy was likely 35 or younger. Compared to them, we might as well be gods on flying chariots.  You can apply for work weeks or even months ahead of time in a place you don't even know and coordinate any number of things at essentially lightspeed.   

People who think "just move" is a bad argument haven't really thought about it enough or are looking for some kind of convenience that doesn't actually exist in the present.  I've moved across states and between two separate continents and I never loved the process.  Feeling unhappy cause somebody told you something you didn't want to hear or because you get preoccupied with 1st world problems isn't the same thing as an argument being bad.

[jadis]

Sure, and it isn't relevant to the fact that people still do it anyway and have done so repeatedly. Don't take the conveniences of the modern world for granted.  Try putting yourself in the shoes of people in eras where it took months or even years to reach a destination and where your life expectancy was likely 35 or younger. Compared to them, we might as well be gods on flying chariots.  You can apply for work weeks or even months ahead of time in a place you don't even know and coordinate any number of things at essentially lightspeed. 

People who think "just move" is a bad argument haven't really thought about it enough or are looking for some kind of convenience that doesn't actually exist in the present.  I've moved across states and between two separate continents and I never loved the process.  Feeling unhappy cause somebody told you something you didn't want to hear or because you get preoccupied with 1st world problems isn't the same thing as an argument being bad.

What was the other one?

[jimmy jazz]

What was the other one?

Asia I'm guessing. His wife is Indian.

[Lisnaholic]

^ ... then Nimbly has a more atypical history than I ever imagined ! Good for you, Nimbly.

... though on the issue of moving, I don't entirely support your "me and other people have done it, so can you" attitude. That may be theoretically true, but it's still a challenge that some people feel they can't risk. For example, "you can apply for work weeks, even months ahead of time" is true in some cases, I'm sure, but applies mainly to people who have good internet access and who are looking for employment that is grand enough to be advertised online. If you aim to get a waiter's job, that avenue may not work for you. Plus, of course, there's a big difference between applying for a job and getting a job.
_______________________________________________

Great news that those fake LLCs are getting tracked down, DJ. 

I hate when right wingers are so whiney about their tax dollars and how it's spent. You have NEVER been able to give input about how your tax money is spent. You just have to pay them. If you don't want to pay taxes move to a country that doesn't make you pay taxes to be a contributing member of society. Good luck with that by the way. This isn't directed at you Lisna I just mean in general.

I think you might've misunderstood what I was saying, DJ. I was only suggesting that government agencies could learn from mega-companies about how to manage huge amounts of money more efficiently, without the $247 billion in unaccounted leakage that Nimbly mentioned. I'm not a right winger who doesn't want to pay taxes - though I'm prepared to accept the charge of being whiney. 

[DJChameleon]

I think you might've misunderstood what I was saying, DJ. I was only suggesting that government agencies could learn from mega-companies about how to manage huge amounts of money more efficiently, without the $247 billion in unaccounted leakage that Nimbly mentioned. I'm not a right winger who doesn't want to pay taxes - though I'm prepared to accept the charge of being whiney. 

Speaking of mega companies they got so much of that pandemic funding too especially airlines and they don't have to pay back a cent.

Another gripe I have against right wingers is the hypocritical nature of railing against safety net programs for the average citizen but when companies get welfare from the federal government not a single peep from their side.

I do agree though that the government doesn't need to be mismanaging money but I'm more worried about the government's effect on certain policies than I am concerned about the national debt for instance.