Workout: What did you do today?

[jimmy jazz]

I don't do them and I have a decently wide back. Skip them if you don't get on with them imo.

[grindy]

I read up on optimal rest between sets and in my case, it seems to be 2-3 minutes so that's what I'm doing. I might be adding some time due to age as I'm reading 40+ guidelines 😅

Hurt my right arm somewhat during today's exercise. I was doing dumbbell pullover with 25 kgs wights on a dumbbell, 10 x 3 reps, and I think that's what messed it up. Probably shouldn't have done the bench presses after. Wanted to get some pullups in, but didn't feel good.

How do you guys feel about dumbbell pullovers?

If anyone's confused, it's this one:



Seems not great for shoulder health? Plus think I'm kinda already getting them, and maybe in a better way, doing ab-wheel workouts.

Haven't done them in ages. Some people get great results, to me they always felt weird.

[grindy]

I can always do the elliptical without using the arm things and just do my legs but I've never done it that way. I also had that conversation today about the rest periods between sets and how short or long they should be. I was working out with some new buddies today and they say they rest for a full minute but my PT is against that for the type of program he has. The maximum I should be resting is 30 seconds and the workout is built for efficiency. No one or at least I don't want to be spending all day in the gym doing hour plus workouts. Maybe that's why your workout days are so long when they don't need to be.

30 seconds is ridiculous if you are trying to build muscle and strength. There is no fixed rest time but your muscle should be good to go and your breathing relatively calm before the next set. I rest around 3-5 minutes between big, heavy compounds and around 1-2 between isolations. If you want to be time efficient I'd go with supersets, rest pause training on isolations and maybe generally doing fewer exercises and sets but with more intensity. My workouts take around 60 to 70 minutes.

[jimmy jazz]

Tbf some of the golden era guys would train with 30 secs rest between sets but yeah I wouldn't do it myself regularly and none of us are training like that. I'm pretty much doing what you just described.

I try to keep it to 60 mins. Sometimes it goes over but it's no big deal.

[grindy]

I can see someone with exceptional willpower, a great cardiovascular system and genetics being able to benefit from it. And even they would probably grow better with more rest. But for us mere mortals this is no way to train. You end up finishing sets because you're out of breath and generally fatigued and not because you're any way close to failure. Plus form can really suffer from rushing so much. I guess one can have some noobie gains from training like this for the first few months, this is certainly better than nothing, but there will be no long term progress.

[jimmy jazz]

As you train at home, if you can be bothered try one of these and tell me what you think Grindy.

There's supersetting then there's this.

[grindy]

I skipped through the videos a bit and I think I have a basic idea about the workouts. (I'll rewatch them more thoroughly though.) I have my doubts whether I'm hardcore enough, I've done arm days in that vein and boy is it tough. I don't want to skip my program at the moment but I'll definitely try this at some point.

[DJChameleon]

30 seconds is ridiculous if you are trying to build muscle and strength. There is no fixed rest time but your muscle should be good to go and your breathing relatively calm before the next set. I rest around 3-5 minutes between big, heavy compounds and around 1-2 between isolations. If you want to be time efficient I'd go with supersets, rest pause training on isolations and maybe generally doing fewer exercises and sets but with more intensity. My workouts take around 60 to 70 minutes.

The thing is I'm lifting way less weight than you guys are so you might think 30 seconds is ridiculous but for the amount of weight that I do in my sets it's not that bad.

[grindy]

The thing is I'm lifting way less weight than you guys are so you might think 30 seconds is ridiculous but for the amount of weight that I do in my sets it's not that bad.

It doesn't matter that much. Big weight or small, high or low reps, you need to rest and then get the muscle relatively close to failure.

[DJChameleon]

It doesn't matter that much. Big weight or small, high or low reps, you need to rest and then get the muscle relatively close to failure.

Okay I'll try it out. I just realized I'm being mad combative with your new suggestions for no reason lol 

Actually I know the reason, I'm super defensive about my PT. He's a cool dude and it always seems like you are slandering him and his method majority of the time but I'm open to suggestions even though it doesn't seem that way.

It's just when you are used to doing things one way and then being told it's wrong and to try something different you are a little resistant I would say.

I would try it out and see how it works for me. So try one minute between sets?

[grindy]

Okay I'll try it out. I just realized I'm being mad combative with your new suggestions for no reason lol 

Actually I know the reason, I'm super defensive about my PT. He's a cool dude and it always seems like you are slandering him and his method majority of the time but I'm open to suggestions even though it doesn't seem that way.

It's just when you are used to doing things one way and then being told it's wrong and to try something different you are a little resistant I would say.

I would try it out and see how it works for me. So try one minute between sets?

I can actually understand you being a bit combative. Even apart from the PT being a nice guy, it's probably unpleasant to train your ass off only for some guys on the internet to criticize what you're doing.
But there isn't even any controversy about rest times, the scientific literature and experience-based lifters agree that it is better to rest a bit longer and I also used to train with very small rest periods myself and got stuck pretty quickly.

I'd say that 1 minute should be the minimum for isolation exercises using smaller muscle groups that can recover quickly like biceps and side delts. For things like chest press, squats etc. I'd rest longer. As written previously, you shouldn't be out of breath and your muscle should feel ready to go again, although I understand that the latter is a bit vague. It would really be interesting to see your program, so it could be restructured due to the longer rest but to still not be too long. But I think you already said that the program is changed a lot, which in itself is not a good thing.

[jimmy jazz]

But I think you already said that the program is changed a lot, which in itself is not a good thing.

This. Honestly I would post here, we will sort it and then you stick to it for 6 months.

In 6 months you will come back looking like Serge Nubret* and then you can thank us by posting your physique (in underwear).

*Probably

[Guybrush]

As someone with a slightly scientific background, I'm definitely trying to check out what science says about various things also related to training rather than just trust various sources (myths spread so easily).

A slightly more dubious but potential shortcut is asking chatgpt because it seems to collect much of its knowledge from scientific publications, at least if you specify (according to science, what is blah blah?).

But I've also seen ChatGPT give two different answers to the same question asked twice, so it's not always dependable.

[DJChameleon]

It would really be interesting to see your program, so it could be restructured due to the longer rest but to still not be too long. But I think you already said that the program is changed a lot, which in itself is not a good thing.

I think it's Fetcher's that changes a lot. Mines doesn't change that much. There are just minor alterations here and there but for the most part they are always the same when I decide which muscle group I'm working on chest, arms, back, shoulders. It's usually the same set of exercises. Nothing too wild and constantly changing.

I will have to figure out what the names of the different exercises are for the different machines that I use and the exercises I do with the dumbbells then I will type them out.


This is what I got from a quick google search about rest time between sets.

The optimal rest period between sets during a workout depends on your fitness goals12:
To increase strength and power, the best rest period is 2-5 minutes between sets.
To increase hypertrophy (muscle growth), the best rest period is 30-90 seconds between sets.
To increase muscular endurance, the best rest period is 30 seconds or less between sets.
According to the National Strength and Conditioning Association, 30-second rest intervals between sets can improve muscular endurance2.

[jimmy jazz]

Side note does anyone else hate the word 'hypertrophy'? It irritates me for some reason. Just say what you mean. You mean muscle size. Say that.

(I know that isn't you saying it BTW Deej just a quote from the Internet but it reminded me of my dislike of that word.)