Global politics

[Saulaac]

And I put myself on this front line right now. To fight again (with words or with weapons) against those politicians and local councillors who stood at the pulprit or in the house of commons or house of lords, knowing they were backing a system which needed a massive overhaul but they did very litle to change things (of course because their mortgages and kids' private school fees depended on it).

[Saulaac]

Just to conclude my thoughts before I turn in, I was speaking with my brother a few weeks ago who works in finance in Hong Kong, and he said quite simply that "they have pulled the ladders up". So I wanted to ask him who the fuck are "they", and how exactly did they pull the ladders up. But I didn't, because I didn't want to sound like a novice in front of him.
And it didn't really matter. For I had heard "pulling the ladders up" many times before. And I knew I could ask him again in a couple of years if I still hadn't understood.
But the feeling still bothered me. What did he mean? Did he mean the West?

[jimmy jazz]

I said each country has to find what's optimal for their particular circumstances. I've been trying to explain to you why I believe banning immigration is not in the UK's best interest.

I get that but you also said there is a limit. If people cannot afford to buy homes or get GP appointments then where is the limit? At what point do you stop adding numbers?

JJ, you say it how you see it, that's why I love you mate  . There's a lot of chicken and egg going on in international politics. The UK and French and most of EU government is skint cash-wise (meaning what is available to spend on those who may or may not have voted for theml), and in order to build more houses, they need cashington houseworthy. But no government has any cash! OK, so why not? And who holds this so-called cash debt?

There is no way a labour or a tory or a trump or a farage or a harris or a lord buckethead or any politician will get us out of this financial mess, without a war.

I appreciate that mate thank you.

[Saulaac]

I get that but you also said there is a limit. If people cannot afford to buy homes or get GP appointments then where is the limit? At what point do you stop adding numbers?

I appreciate that mate thank you.

A pleasure mate. From one North West guy near the M6 to another xx

[Buck_Mulligan]

I get that but you also said there is a limit. If people cannot afford to buy homes or get GP appointments then where is the limit? At what point do you stop adding numbers?
 

UK's current immigrant level of 13% is below the average of 14% for high income countries, when given the legacy of empire etc. it should be higher than average.
The Netherlands has a population density that is more than 50% higher than the UK.
UK 67M +50% =100M. I'll cut you a break and allow that the UK can easily support 80M, with 20% immigrants. That's nominally, about 60% more than now. You'd still be 25% less dense than the Netherlands.

[Buck_Mulligan]

Just to conclude my thoughts before I turn in, I was speaking with my brother a few weeks ago who works in finance in Hong Kong, and he said quite simply that "they have pulled the ladders up". So I wanted to ask him who the fuck are "they", and how exactly did they pull the ladders up. But I didn't, because I didn't want to sound like a novice in front of him.
And it didn't really matter. For I had heard "pulling the ladders up" many times before. And I knew I could ask him again in a couple of years if I still hadn't understood.
But the feeling still bothered me. What did he mean? Did he mean the West?

I think he meant China is pulling up the ladders in HK by exerting more control and reducing freedoms for HK residents.

[jimmy jazz]

UK's current immigrant level of 13% is below the average of 14% for high income countries, when given the legacy of empire etc. it should be higher than average.
The Netherlands has a population density that is more than 50% higher than the UK.
UK 67M +50% =100M. I'll cut you a break and allow that the UK can easily support 80M, with 20% immigrants. That's nominally, about 60% more than now. You'd still be 25% less dense than the Netherlands.

I wasn't talking about population density nor The Netherlands (we are already one of the most densely populated places in the world BTW). I haven't said we don't have green spaces to build things. I said that we don't have the jobs, GPs, housing and everything else to support such large numbers. That's nothing to do with density which is why I said we also need to invest in those things as well as reduce numbers.

But if density is your argument we are one of the last countries that should be taking people in, especially compared to other high income countries when density is your measurement of how 'full' somewhere is.

[Buck_Mulligan]

I wasn't talking about population density nor The Netherlands (we are already one of the most densely populated places in the world BTW). I haven't said we don't have green spaces to build things. I said that we don't have the jobs, GPs, housing and everything else to support such large numbers. That's nothing to do with density which is why I said we also need to invest in those things as well as reduce numbers.

But if density is your argument we are one of the last countries that should be taking people in, especially compared to other high income countries when density is your measurement of how 'full' somewhere is.

You don't seem to understand that building infrastructure creates jobs. If the gubbermint needs money to invest, they do some combination of borrowing, raising taxes, or cutting services. The world doesn't owe Britain a living.
You asked me for a number, I gave you a number, and told you how I arrived at it. You're not required to like it. Case closed.

[jimmy jazz]

You don't seem to understand that building infrastructure creates jobs. If the gubbermint needs money to invest, they do some combination of borrowing, raising taxes, or cutting services. The world doesn't owe Britain a living.
You asked me for a number, I gave you a number, and told you how I arrived at it. You're not required to like it. Case closed.

And you don't seem to understand that these things, housing, schools, GPs don't just appear overnight. They take years.

And cut what? There's nothing left to cut. Councils are skint. Public services are already down to the bare bones.

You also said this bit:

each country has to find what's optimal for their particular circumstances.

Our circumstances = already one of the most densely populated countries in the world without the infrastructure to support the current population as it is.

We should not be adding more.

The world doesn't owe Britain a living.

This is all positive though you said. We'd be in a recession without it 

[Psy-Fi]

Here's a two-fer from Trump...


Zelensky wants to 'work directly' with Trump on ending Ukraine's war with Russia

Trump praises 'very productive' Mar-a-Lago meeting with Trudeau

[Buck_Mulligan]

And you don't seem to understand that these things, housing, schools, GPs don't just appear overnight. They take years.

And cut what? There's nothing left to cut. Councils are skint. Public services are already down to the bare bones.
 

Nothing exceptional about that. Same for every country.
For a guy who started this conversation with an implicit criticism of the left, you're sounding quite leftish yourself now.

[jimmy jazz]

Nothing exceptional about that. Same for every country.
For a guy who started this conversation with an implicit criticism of the left, you're sounding quite leftish yourself now.

I am a Labour voter who didn't vote Brexit and I criticise everyone. Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

You can criticise your own side you know.

[Weekender]

When we understand that there's no moral grounds for restricting people's freedom of movement...that human rights are supreme over national rights, then we can have serious discussions about immigration.

[jimmy jazz]

Na.

[SGR]

When we understand that there's no moral grounds for restricting people's freedom of movement...that human rights are supreme over national rights, then we can have serious discussions about immigration.