A thread for nothing

[SGR]

I find it hard to be sympathetic about anything deemed antisemitic when their leaders are openly advocating killing children. Whatever would Jesus have said, I wonder?

I think it's important to keep in mind that Israel and their leaders don't represent every Jew. They are not a monolithic hivemind, and there are plenty of Jews who disagree with Israel's action re: Gaza and Palestinians. Not to say that Israel won't happily use antisemitism (or accusations of antisemitism) as a political cudgel, but that doesn't mean all antisemitism should be discounted.

Hannah Arendt, a Jewish woman herself, once said:

But the trouble is that European Zionism (as distinguished from views held by American Zionists!) has often thought and said that the evil of antisemitism was necessary for the good of the Jewish people. In the words of a well-known Zionist in a letter to me discussing "the original Zionist argumentation: The antisemites want to get rid of the Jews, the Jewish State wants to receive them, a perfect match." The notion that we can use our enemies for our own salvation has always been to me the"original sin" of Zionism.

[jimmy jazz]

I know you're not a fan of Lineker, JJ, but what do you think? BBC sacrificing him or just time he went? I have to say, I'll miss him. I liked the guy. I feel in a non-Trump/Starmer universe, this might not have taken on the significance it has now. I find it hard to be sympathetic about anything deemed antisemitic when their leaders are openly advocating killing children. Whatever would Jesus have said, I wonder?

I dunno what he said but in general I think he's a smug arsehole.

I don't like how he's being called brave for condemning Israel and supporting Palestine as if that isn't the popular opinion right now.

I won't miss him. Depends who they get to replace him. I'd give it to Roy Keane. It'll probably be someone boring and safe.

[jimmy jazz]

OK I just read about what he did and tbh I just think it was an honest error but I still think he is a crisp shagging wanker.

[Lexi of the Dawn]

I think it's important to keep in mind that Israel and their leaders don't represent every Jew. They are not a monolithic hivemind, and there are plenty of Jews who disagree with Israel's action re: Gaza and Palestinians. Not to say that Israel won't happily use antisemitism (or accusations of antisemitism) as a political cudgel, but that doesn't mean all antisemitism should be discounted.

Yep. The meaning of "antisemitism" is being deliberately blurred and weaponized by political bad actors to push the idea that it means "anti-Zionism" and/or "being against Israel's military actions in Gaza". The political leaders of Israel are not the political, religious or cultural leaders of all Jews.

From what I can see the only part of his tweet that was antisemitic was the rat iconography, which isn't great, but it feels to me like it's more tone-deaf than anything and nothing else he posted screamed "antisemitism" rather than anti-Israel's actions. I think the message he was sending was meant to chiefly be speaking out against the attacks on Palestinians, and from what I can see the media is focusing entirely on the antisemitic iconography and trying, as usual, to directly link antisemitic sentiment into speaking out against Israel.

[SGR]

Yep. The meaning of "antisemitism" is being deliberately blurred and weaponized by political bad actors to push the idea that it means "anti-Zionism" and/or "being against Israel's military actions in Gaza". The political leaders of Israel are not the political, religious or cultural leaders of all Jews.

From what I can see the only part of his tweet that was antisemitic was the rat iconography, which isn't great, but it feels to me like it's more tone-deaf than anything and nothing else he posted screamed "antisemitism" rather than anti-Israel's actions. I think the message he was sending was meant to chiefly be speaking out against the attacks on Palestinians, and from what I can see the media is focusing entirely on the antisemitic iconography and trying, as usual, to directly link antisemitic sentiment into speaking out against Israel.

It's also somewhat of a double-edged sword in rhetoric - two extremes, so to say. There have been some (like members of the current US admin) who will castigate any good-faith criticism of Israel or Zionism as antisemitic. And yet still there are others who will make genuine antisemitic remarks or 'criticism' and act like they're doing so only under the guise of anti-Zionism. Rhetorically, the lines can be blurry with this issue.

I have no idea who this Lineker guy is, or what he tweeted - I'm just speaking more generally.

[jimmy jazz]

There is also a lot of antisemitism where if you point it out it's the old chestnut of "I'm talking about Zionists not Jews".

OK SGR just said this.

[jimmy jazz]

Guys I find it a bit weird how worked up the Eurovision fnas are getting because Israel had an entry and also because they got points.

Its a song contest? People really getting angry over it and saying Israel rigged it.

Who gives a fuck.

[SGR]

Guys I find it a bit weird how worked up the Eurovision fnas are getting because Israel had an entry and also because they got points.

Its a song contest? People really getting angry over it and saying Israel rigged it.

Who gives a fuck.

Eurovision, somewhat like the Olympics, is supposed to bring people and cultures together through a little friendly competition.

So much for that, I guess.

[Guybrush]

I guess it's because Israel's song was boring to the point where their large number of votes seemed more due to support than any artistic merit.

[Lucem Ferre]

Guys I find it a bit weird how worked up the Eurovision fnas are getting because Israel had an entry and also because they got points.

Its a song contest? People really getting angry over it and saying Israel rigged it.

Who gives a fuck.

The Russians do.

[Jwb]

[Trollheart]

For those who don't know, Gary Lineker is an ex-footballer and now a pundit on the BBC (or he was). For decades he was a contributor to and then presenter of the BBC's flagship football programme, Match of the Day. I guess you'd say in some ways it would be like if maybe, I don't know, Tom Brady or Lebron James was to make that tweet or whatever the fuck it was. He also had a run-in with BBC last year when he openly criticised the govt's deportation policy for immigrants, likening it to Nazi Germany, and personally I feel that, though he was supported by just about everyone in sport and sport broadcasting in the UK that time, this was their chance to nail him over what does seem to have been a genuine mistake, a little like putting a smiley after a condolences text maybe? My own opinion is it's payback: he was leaving MOTD anyway as, for most people, a trusted and loved presenter, and now he's been told to forget about broadcasting on the BBC altogether, perhaps as a way of blackening his name as he leaves the programme.

I'm not ever saying anti-semitism is right, but I feel certain political parties and organisations are definitely using it as a stick to beat people with and a way to silence protest against the horrors being committed by the genocidal Israeli govt, and this is Starmer's way of showing Trump "Look! I'm just like you. I'm a friend. Please don't beat me up financially! What else can I do for you?"

My oen personal opinion is that it's bollocks. Like or loathe Lineker, in a different political climate, give it two or three years ago, say, this would not have been the news story that it is.

[jimmy jazz]

Comments and attitudes like this are so common now. Since Oct 7 2023 people are so brazen about it.

[jimmy jazz]

[Guybrush]

Comments and attitudes like this are so common now. Since Oct 7 2023 people are so brazen about it.

Jeez.. that is awful 😐