The soccerball thread

[jimmy jazz]

We're up and running.

[Trollheart]

Good start for us, though nearly, nearly there at the end...
Glad they've semi-sorted out VAR: keep your nose out till you're asked, instead of always poking in and saying "huh? Huh?" Pretty decent performances by most of the bigger teams, apart from Chelsea, if they count. Head butts and red cards already, lovely. It's back! 

[jimmy jazz]

Words from Sven, who was diagnosed with terminal cancer in January:

"I had a good life. I think we are all scared of the day when we die, but life is about death as well. You have to learn to accept it for what it is. Hopefully at the end people will say, yeah, he was a good man, but everyone will not say that.

"I hope you will remember me as a positive guy trying to do everything he could do. Don't be sorry, smile. Thank you for everything, coaches, players, the crowds, it's been fantastic. Take care of yourself and take care of your life. And live it. Bye."

[Trollheart]

Wasn't he the first non-English manager England had? Or am I wrong? Were they not all Englishmen prior to him? Wish him all the best anyway. That really sucks.

[jimmy jazz]

Wasn't he the first non-English manager England had? Or am I wrong? Were they not all Englishmen prior to him? Wish him all the best anyway. That really sucks.

Yes.

I liked the Sven years as I was growing up then and they were my secondary school years and England became extremely shit for a decade after that.

[jimmy jazz]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/live/cwywd2e5317t

RIP Sven.

Peak Sven era moment:

Fuck off cancer you cunt

[jimmy jazz]

Might be the best goal I've ever seen scored at VP.

Absolutely fucking ridiculous goal and superb comeback.

[Trollheart]

Definite goal of the month, possible goal of the season!

[jimmy jazz]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/09/19/man-city-could-be-expelled-from-all-competitions/

Manchester City are in danger of being thrown out of more than just the Premier League if they are found guilty of serious breaches of its financial rules.

The hearing has started BTW. Expected to finish before the season ends.

[Trollheart]

Assuming the worst (for them, best for you I guess) happens, what do you think happens then? If they're relegated to like the Johnson Paints Division or something, they'll just storm through the divisions and end up back in the Prem within a few years. Or will they not be allowed be promoted? Will all/most of the good players (well, all of them really - have City any bad players?) fuck off to other teams or abroad (please, not China or Saudi Arabia!) and will Pep retire? Do you think the best thing for English, even European or world football is for them to cease to exist? Or do you hope we might snaffle Guandan or get Grealish back? I'm not denying or making light of their breaches, but how do you see it ending, assuming it goes against them? Serious question.

[jimmy jazz]

Assuming the worst: all of the Premier Leagues 'won' between 2009-2018 will be taken away. Expulsion from the Premier League and/or relegation. Fines and transfer bans. Keep in mind these 115+ charges only apply to the period ending in 2018. Then they will likely be charged again for between 2018 to now. If they are relegated several divisions, they'll likely storm through promotions even with sanctions and limits on what they can spend but they would struggle to survive in the PL.

In my opinion what will happen: they will be found guilty of some but not all of the charges. Using Everton and Forest as the precedent (they were just guilty of overspending, admitted it and complied, and only guilty of a handful of charges yet still got heavy points deductions), they will and should get at least a big enough points deduction to stop them winning whatever league season they're sentenced in. Probably this season.

Do you think the best thing for English, even European or world football is for them to cease to exist?

Yes. Their impact on the sport has been devastating. They've distorted the transfer market, taken trophies that would have been won by other clubs, completely altered the history of the sport, badly damaged the league and sport's integrity. It goes on. Anyone who truly cares for the sport and understands what's going on should be of the same view.

Also I don't want Grealish back regardless of what happens. We don't need him. And even if we did, I still wouldn't want him.

[jimmy jazz]

Trolls I just uploaded this for you, expires in two days but a bit more explanation here: https://streamable.com/i457a8

[Trollheart]

Okay I watched that. What struck me is that, well, who the fuck is this guy? I mean, I'm not saying his facts are wrong, but he's obviously got the same view as you, so could be a Man Utd fan or whatever. I'd need to hear from an identified, unbiased source. I know you probably have all the facts, and that's fine, but to post a video by some unidentified guy doesn't convince me. Not saying it's fake news, but I don't know who he is.

Personally, I really don't care about their overspends/irregularities/breaches. I'm a guy who enjoys watching good football and I see it in Man City. I would hate to think of the likes of Haaland, Silva or hell, even Kyle Walker being no longer able to entertain us. I said it before, and I now repeat it: seems like a case of sour grapes. I suppose in your view the meteoric - and you would say illegal? - rise of Man City has stopped the likes of Villa getting higher, but has it? Villa are doing well, and I remember - as I'm sure you do - when City were sneered at by United ("noisy neighbours") and personally it gives me a great sense of satisfaction to see their noses rubbed in it, season after season. Just my view, but personally I don't give a shit. I'm more worried about players being lured off to Saudi and China, taking them out of the game. Points deductions if necessary, maybe, but the whole world of football runs on brown envelopes, handshakes and close-to-crime. Have you ever seen the series The Beautiful Game, about the way Italian football is run? It's shocking. But I think you and others are looking to bite your nose off to spite your face here. Used to be ABU, now it's ABC (hah!) and anything that can be done to take them down, do it?

I'm not, to be fair, all that sure that you'd be in such a snit over this if it was Villa who were guilty. When you're at the top, everyone wants to knock you down. I guess we'll see what happens, but I for one hope they either beat it, come to an arrangement or get a more lenient punishment. Prem would not be the same without them. Also, I hate Arsenal and they would surely be battling for the title if City were removed? Damn Arsenal.

Just my opinion, you understand, or if you prefer, an alternative one. Why not let them make a huge contribution to the FA or something, split the money between teams in the lower divisions, something like that? Meh, I don't know, but the fact that you're clearly a City-hater makes your argument a little biased in my view. Corruption is everywhere now and while it may not be fair, I don't agree with a witch hunt either. I'd be interested to see a City fan weigh in on the discussion, if there are any here.

[jimmy jazz]

Okay I watched that. What struck me is that, well, who the fuck is this guy? I mean, I'm not saying his facts are wrong, but he's obviously got the same view as you, so could be a Man Utd fan or whatever. I'd need to hear from an identified, unbiased source. I know you probably have all the facts, and that's fine, but to post a video by some unidentified guy doesn't convince me. Not saying it's fake news, but I don't know who he is.

Trolls, it's not fake news. You can clearly see the tweet in the background from Nick Harris who is a respected journalist. Nothing in that video is fake news. The figures for the naming rights and income are available with a quick search.

Personally, I really don't care about their overspends/irregularities/breaches. I'm a guy who enjoys watching good football and I see it in Man City. I would hate to think of the likes of Haaland, Silva or hell, even Kyle Walker being no longer able to entertain us. I said it before, and I now repeat it: seems like a case of sour grapes.

Sour grapes when a cheat gets caught? Was it sour grapes when Lance Armstrong got caught? I don't think you fully understand what's going on here.

I suppose in your view the meteoric - and you would say illegal? - rise of Man City has stopped the likes of Villa getting higher, but has it?

Yes? From 2008 onward they bought Barry, Milner, Delph and Grealish off us. All four were our captains. We didn't want any of them to leave. Now ask yourself how they got that money and how they could afford it? And it ended up with us being relegated. This isn't to mention the cup final they beat us in.

Villa are doing well

Villa are doing well NOW, after we got relegated, got new owners, nearly folded and then got more new owners.

and I remember - as I'm sure you do - when City were sneered at by United ("noisy neighbours") and personally it gives me a great sense of satisfaction to see their noses rubbed in it, season after season.

Totally irrelevant.

I'm not, to be fair, all that sure that you'd be in such a snit over this if it was Villa who were guilty. When you're at the top, everyone wants to knock you down. I guess we'll see what happens, but I for one hope they either beat it, come to an arrangement or get a more lenient punishment. Prem would not be the same without them. Also, I hate Arsenal and they would surely be battling for the title if City were removed? Damn Arsenal.

Just my opinion, you understand, or if you prefer, an alternative one. Why not let them make a huge contribution to the FA or something, split the money between teams in the lower divisions, something like that? Meh, I don't know, but the fact that you're clearly a City-hater makes your argument a little biased in my view. Corruption is everywhere now and while it may not be fair, I don't agree with a witch hunt either. I'd be interested to see a City fan weigh in on the discussion, if there are any here.

This right here shows you genuinely still do not understand what is going on.

"It's just a witch hunt against Lance Armstrong, I want to see the fastest cyclists so I don't really care that he cheated. I hope he gets off".

That is effectively what you're arguing. You don't seem to understand how cheating ruins it for every other club that has to operate within the rules.

Please put some time and effort into finding out what the breaches are. It isn't a witch hunt.

[Trollheart]

I don't want to get into a shouting match with you or have bad blood between us, so I'll just say two things: 1) I already said I don't think it's fake news, but in my defence that kind of Ticky-Tock mouse running up a clock thing does my head in, with flashing tweets and stuff, none of which I'm familiar with (and anyone seriously putting on a mumbly sulky voice to make fun of their opponents makes a bad impression on me right away, as it's childish) and 2) it's of course just my personal opinion as I said, but whereas a point deduction of some sort, or a large fine, would be acceptable I don't subscribe to essentially destroying the team. It's possible Man City might lose a lot of their players if they do get demoted and while that might be good for other teams I don't like the idea of there being no Man City any more. I do remember that when Everton and Forest got their deductions, the general feeling prevalent in the football community (other than their rivals I guess, or the fans of those teams) was a sort of sympathy. Nobody wanted to see them run out of town on a rail, as it were.

I don't doubt that my view is simplistic, but I think the Prem without Man City would be a loss for the sport. I don't care about Lance Armstrong, so not much point using him as an example. I'm not very much, as you probably know, into sports anyway, so who cheats what doesnt concern me. I still maintain that, were this Villa and they were at the top, you would not be so quick to say justice should be done.

But we won't see eye to eye on this, so may as well leave it at that. I personally hope to see them remain in the Premiership. We'll see what happens I guess. I just don't support your crusade, and that's my right, just as it is yours to denounce them from your platform.