Trollheart's Hate List

[Trollheart]

I suppose we all - or most of us - have a hate list, music we really don't like and would or will probably never listen to. I'm not ignorant enough (at least, not any more) to say something is shit just because I don't like it, and I generally like to be able to speak on some small authority on a subject - music very definitely included - before I can render an opinion which I feel should be considered. Some genres just don't resonate with me, though I have made efforts to listen to and understand, and even get into them, various ways. But that's not what this is about.

This is about artists. Bands, singers, groups I have always hated but never really heard, either nothing at all or beyond their hit singles. So why am I listening to music I freely admit I hate? Am I a masochist? An idiot? Do I have too much time on my hands? Well, probably a little from column A, a little from column B and quite a lot from column C, as it were. In the last few years I've tried to challenge my own preconceptions of music, both through gaining a better understanding of it through people's recommendations and through deliberately straying off the beaten path and into unfamiliar territory, just to see what it's like.

It seems unfair that I should discount an artist solely on either a) my own prejudices or b) the general opinion against them. So the idea here is to listen to music I hate, or think I hate, or have formed a prejudice against, and see if I was right all along, or if I am being unfair to the artists in question. After all, you really can't say you hate something if you've not explored it in enough depth to be able to make that determination  and stand by it. Frownland showed me that with Trout Mask Replica, and while I still don't like the album, after three listens I've already ameliorated my opinion of it. Slightly. So anything is possible if you open your ears, put aside your preconceived notions and just close your eyes and take a running jump off that metaphorical cliff. I said meta - oops. Oh well.

Let it be fully understood: these will NOT be reviews. Not at all. While I will be pushing myself to listen to all - or a selection from - of  each artist's discography, I will not be talking at length about the album or the tracks. I may mention something that stands out to me, as good or bad, but in general I'll be giving an overall impression of what the albums sounded like to me and how they affected me - if at all - and at the end deciding whether or not I was right to hate this artist, whether I have changed my mind or had my opinion confirmed.

Next up:


Trollheart's Hate List

I'm just going to add artists to this as I think of them. So much hate...


Note: Red indicates hate (duh) and green not hate (also duh)

Ed Sheeran
Adele
Taylor Swift
Ellie Goulding
Morrisey
Mariah Carey
Justin Bieber
Jonas Brothers
One Direction
Daniel O'Donnell (if you're Irish, you'll know)

[Trollheart]

Before we start, let's just get this out of the way. Yes, I know: how dare I hate any artist when I have the shit music taste that I have? Yes, yes, I wouldn't know good music if it came up to me and asked me how to get to Carnegie Hall (lady, you gotta - no? Fair enough I suppose). But as I noted in the OP, everyone hates particular artists, and everyone's entitled to, regardless of their perceived taste in music by others. And you may also say, sure you like bands like Bon Jovi and Marillion and Genesis and Dan Fogelberg, and spit when you say that, and that's fine: you hate those bands, more power to you. Make your own thread and rant on about how shit they are. This is my Hate List, not yours, so suck it.

Besides, the aim here is not necessarily just to shit on an artist I hate, but to face the fact that in the case of most of those artists I have arbitrarily decided to hate them based on very little or very specific information, without knowing their full deal. This will be my chance to redress that, to immerse myself in their music, learn about who and what they are, and see if it's fair that I still hate them afterwards.

So the most important question to ask about any of these artists, is why do I hate them? Is it their music or is it something about them personally, or a combination of the two? Or is it in fact something else? Well, in the case of Ed Sheeran, it's really not the music, as I have not heard very much of it. I believe I may have listened to one of his albums as part of another review thread; can't recall hating it, can't recall being overly impressed by it. But it wouldn't be fair to damn an artist on the strength of just one album, so no, it's not the music, at least not yet.

I think the thing that bugs me most about him, other than him being, what we call over here a "ginger tosser" (which in fairness isn't his fault, but I hate him for it anyway) is the way he's always in the news. You hear about him everywhere, and somewhat like Adele (who will also be on my list) he seems almost the default artist for people who really aren't that much into music. This was illustrated to an annoying degree when I was watching the Irish news at one point and he was playing, and yes, it was a news story. They interviewed people either coming from or going to the concert (can't remember which and I don't care) and asked them that age-old, searching journalistic question: why do you like his music so much?

Now, you or I or anyone here, when asked this about our own favourite artist, would have a ready-made answer: points about lyrics, themes, how their music is different to the mainstream, how you've followed them for x years, how this person plays the guitar or that the keyboards, or the way the music makes you feel, and so on and so on. We know our artists, we know why we like them. But these brainless sheep, to a man, woman or child (you can forgive children of course, but adults should be able to formulate more intelligent replies surely) simpered and mouthed platitudes such as "oh I just love his music", or "oh everything he does is great."

FUCK. OFF.

If you like an artist, you should know WHY you like him, her or them. You shouldn't be stuck for words, and even given that perhaps the interviews were sudden and unexpected, this is your chance to have your say, so fucking have it. Don't end up looking like some bashful teenager afraid to say what you think of the girl/boy you fancy. Watching the news, a vision flashed into my mind of a certain someone chewing gum and recommending we all support the president. Uh, yeah.

So you might say that my problem isn't so much with Sheeran as with his fans, and maybe you'd be right. Still, it certainly colours your perception of the man when his followers are such dumb, inarticulate cunts. But then, look at the guy! He has a half-smile, half-smirk on his face that seems to say "I make more money in a day than you will in all your life." That's fine; he probably does and will, but does he have to look so fucking smug about it? People can make money without rubbing your nose in it - class acts like Prince, Springsteen, George Michael, even Jackson all just got on with it and never made you feel they were sneering at you. I see the same look on McCartney's face, and I hate the fucker for it.

But that's just me, and perhaps not a fair reason to hate him. And you know, maybe I don't hate him, but I do wonder what the fuck all the hype is about? I mean, people (and I don't just mean fans; critics too) go on about him as if he's the second coming. Is he that good? Or is he just a singer who has happened to capture the imagination of  a certain time? Is he, in other words, the male version of Adele?

Naturally, I have to research him, and as I do my heart softens a little, as I learn he is self-taught on guitar and comes from a musical family. This is good: I can't stand those stars who get where they are through talent shows or even YouTube viewings. I'm an old dinosaur, and I know the world no longer works this way, but to me the way to make it is still the old gigging circuit, and anyone who circumvents that is, to my mind, cheating slightly. Ah, it's a new world, but I remember how hard the bands now regarded as classic had to fight to make it, and the fact that there's an easy path to success for musicians these days rankles a little with me. What can I say? I'm an old curmudgeon.

You probably all know I'm a great hater of pretension, and what can be more pretentious than naming your albums after mathematical symbols? I mean, yes, changing your NAME to a symbol is pretentious beyond belief, but at least Prince had the talent to back up that move. I mean, could Sheeran not come up with better titles for his albums? Or was it all just a marketing ploy, like (again) Adele titling her albums with the age she was when she recorded them? Let's hope we never hear 45!

I also read he played four gigs in one day, one held outside the venue, to ensure nobody missed out, which I have to admit is nice behaviour if not done for publicity value. He seems to be involved in a lot of charity work, which you have to give him praise for, but then I never said he was a monster, and I'm sure at heart he's a nice person. Doesn't mean I have to like his music. Speaking of...


Plus Year: 2011

Right. Even the title of his fucking debut screws up my review, as my word processor thinks I'm trying to start a list. I am, Google Docs: a hate list! But anyway, halfway through the album now and it's had its decent points but there's nothing here that really wows me or makes me rethink my position on him, this time through the lens of listening to his music. The combination of a semi-rap style with acoustic folk/pop is different, yes, but is it different enough for this guy to be hailed as almost the saviour of pop music? He does write his own stuff, which is always a plus (hah!) with me, and he can play, but does he not just sound like a slightly younger, wimpier version of James Blunt?

His yearning, crooning voice does wear thin after a while, and while there are yet five tracks to go, it's all been pretty laid-back for most of it, and I wouldn't mind (if I have to listen) hearing something a bit more uptempo and less, well, whiny? I guess "The City" gets there a little, but it's still very indulgent and moany. His attempts at rap are annoying - either rap or don't, dude: singing fast doesn't give you a middle ground, you know. At least "You Need Me, I Don't Need You" has a little energy, but I still don't like it.

End result: couldn't say that I hate the album but I certainly don't love it. I don't hear anything here that would make me a) listen to it again b)listen to another of his (though I have to for this thread) or c) proclaim him the new pop messiah. Bah.

On to the next one then I guess...

[Trollheart]

And it's called

Multiply I have to use the spelled-out version otherwise the system doesn't recognise it, not that you or I care - Year: 2014

Starts the same as the previous one but then he goes all soul/funk and it's just embarrassing. Add in some sub-hip-hop on "Don't" and I just want to jump off a tall building, or even better, push him off one. If only he had taken the advice he gives himself in the title! This album almost makes me appreciate the debut. Man it's awful. Well, "Photograph" is all right I guess, and "Bloodstream" is not without its charm, but "Tenerife Sea" is my favourite, not because it's a good song (it isn't) but due to the lyric: "Say the word and I'll disappear into the wilderness." Off you go then, Sheerhan: the word is given. :rolleyes: Yeah, this is bloody woeful. How did this get to number one and sell over two million copies in the UK? Guess there's no accounting for taste. Sigh.

[Trollheart]

Two down, two to go. The next one is yet another symbol we all remember from school, and could, I suppose, in some circumstances, be seen as a negative compared to the (ostensibly) positive symbols used on his first two albums. Yeah.

Divide Year: 2016

I'm sure it didn't divide his fans, but is it likely to add to my contempt for his music or multiply it, or even divide it in two? All right, that's enough maths puns. Let's get the bloody thing over with before I start drawing Venn diagrams or something.

Oh no! A stupid poxy rap right off. This ain't going to be good is it? Well "Dive" is a decent bluesy ballad and the presence of Clapton on guitar is certainly welcome, but  then I realise I've heard "Shape of You" before, and its rhythm has really annoyed me without knowing who to blame. Now I know who to blame. I haven't heard "Perfect" before, but given his supposed propensity for subtly ripping other artists off on occasion, I feel I know this melody but I can't place it. "Galway Girl" is just embarrassing (check out Steve Earle's for a much better song, nothing to do with this one) and the fiddles and pipes just add to the triteness. As we say here, Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

"Happier" is better though it's quickly subsumed back into the muck and dross by "New Man" which sounds like Backstreet Boys trying to do hip-hop or something. And again there's a rip-off as "How Would You Feel" has the melodic fingerprints of  Van Morrison's "Have I Told You Lately" all over it. Yeah, pretty poor album that once again broke all chart records and apparently every single fucking track got into the top twenty! Every. Single. One. That's what happens when people are able to buy tracks singly instead of shelling out for the album.

I really don't want to go for this last one, but fuck it, in for a cent, huh?


No. 6 Collaborations Project  Year: 2019

Bringing, I guess, his interest in hip-hop and R&B to its full climax, this is, as the title suggests, a collaboration effort with various other artists, some from the world of pop (Justin Bieber, Bruno Mars) and hip-hop (50 Cent, Travis Scott, Eminem among them) and so I couldn't imagine it really being a Sheeran album, but I suppose it's important to listen to it as part of his discography, and considering it's his most recent too. I really couldn't be bothered namechecking all the stars who contribute to this, or who plays or sings on what: if you want to find out then check the Wiki page.

Of course, this also hit number one on both sides of the Atlantic, which is not at all surprising when you consider that in addition to the legions of Sheeran fans it would also appeal to fans of each/all of the contributors, so it was a shameless grab for sales based on reputations. Is it any good? Hard to say really: there are so many different styles, singers and types of music on it that it might as well be titled "Hip-Hop and R&B Greatest Hits" edited by and written by Ed Sheeran Definitely the album of his that I have the least interest in hearing, and the one I expect to like least. It's also the one with the most tracks (fifteen) but I'm thankful for small mercies as they're all relatively short.

No doubt fans of or people familiar with Stormzy, Khalid, 50 Cent and all the rest will like it, and to be honest, the writing apart, I don't see any real input from Sheeran and he might as well not be there on most of the tracks, which I think kind of defeats the purpose of the album. But then, do I care? I do not. I see he's shown as performing "all vocals", though of course that doesn't include those contributed by the guests, which for me tend to, each time, take over the particular track they're used on, but hey ho.

Okay, "Best Part of Me" isn't bad, kind of goes back to his style from the first two albums. Ish. The next song, the one with Bieber (two members of the hate list for the price of one!) reflects my attitude towards this album, and, mostly, towards Sheeran in general. Man, it's fucking awful. That fucking chicken-clucking sound at the end of the chorus. Shut the fuck up! Okay I've basically hated just about everything on this. The metal-like guitar intro to "Blow" was surprising and welcome, but man is it way too little too late. I am out of here!

[Trollheart]

So what's the end result then? Having listened to all four of Ed Sheeran's albums, do I still hate him, or have I come to a better appreciation of both him as a person and his music? Well, yes and no. That is, yes I still hate him and no I haven't come to appreciate him, not at all. I won't deny some of his music, particularly on his first album, is all right, but the rapping and the attempt to be the next, "nice" Eminem while still pandering to his fanbase of folky pop kids bugs the hell out of me, I must admit. It's not even good: I mean, he swings from one to the other like someone who isn't really sure what he wants to do, what direction he wants to take. Or like someone who's trying to be all things to all men, please everyone, and we know that's nigh on impossible.

His most recent album though says it all. It's almost an abandoning of the themes and ideas explored on the first three albums, and his diving head-first into hip-hop and soul. For me, it just doesn't work. It's too crowded. If this had been just him paying tribute to the hip-hop artists he admires, that might have been something, but essentially he seems to have handed control over to Eminem, Khalid, Scott et al and the album became more a collaboration/compilation (which, to be fair, he both titled it and considers it to be) than a pure Ed Sheeran album.

But even had it been the latter, I don't believe his music speaks to me. I just don't like it. I mean, I like some of it, and there's no questioning the fact that he's both a good musician and a good songwriter, but so are hundreds of other people. What makes him so special? What has he got that they don't? Why do millions wet themselves at the thought of a new Ed Sheeran album or going to see him live? You got me.

Maybe I just don't get it. Maybe I'm too old. Maybe I prefer my music to have a bit more direction and heart, and not seem like it's written to appeal directly to a pre-selected audience. Maybe I just don't like him. But as some sort of wunderkind of the pop world, as every teenage girl (and maybe boy)'s fantasy, as a role model for generations? Nah. I get that he's basically safe, so kids can go to see him with their parents and both enjoy the concert, and fair play to them and him. But he's not for me, and I don't get the cult of celebrity, the almost worship that has arisen around him, to the point that were his next album to be him sitting humming a tuneless tune all through it, these fans would declare it the greatest pop record ever recorded. Don't think I'll ever understand his appeal.

So, now that I've listened to and read about him, is he still on my Hate List?
Does the pope shit in the woods?

[Trollheart]

Next up...


(Rechecked the list and realised I'd made a mistake...)

[jimmy jazz]

Daniel O'Donnell has a really annoying face and is the sort of music retired librarians called Sue listen to in their Nissan Micras when they drive to their weekly shop at Tesco.

[.]

Morrisey being on the list is just wrong.

[jimmy jazz]

Naturally, I have to research him, and as I do my heart softens a little, as I learn he is self-taught on guitar and comes from a musical family. This is good: I can't stand those stars who get where they are through talent shows or even YouTube viewings.

Might disappoint you here but YouTube is how he originally got big. He was featured on SBTV's channel doing a song called 'You Need Me, I Don't Need You' and it blew up. Also, his rags to riches story is bullshit. There is this idea that he used to sleep on people's couches as a penniless musician trying to make it but he comes from a well off family. I thought something was up when I learned he was born in Halifax but speaks like he went to Eton.

Anyway I'm not defending him. Ginger tosser!

[jimmy jazz]

Morrisey being on the list is just wrong.

I think it's a great list and I'm looking forward to his post about Adele in particular.

[Trollheart]

Daniel O'Donnell has a really annoying face and is the sort of music retired librarians called Sue listen to in their Nissan Micras when they drive to their weekly shop at Tesco.

There's an absolutely hilarious spoof of him on a Father Ted episode called "Night of the Nearly Dead"

"My Mayo Mammy"! Jumpers! Banana cake! God, it's all so true! If you wanted the most inoffensive, boring, Irish apologist for country music that makes Westlife look like Slayer, Dan's your man! Makes me ashamed to be Irish.  

Morrisey being on the list is just wrong.

It's my list and I'll be wrong if I want to.
Thing is, it's bands or artists I hate, not that everyone else hates. Most of them I haven't heard much from, some I've heard nothing from and just hate them on their reputation, but I will be listening to them and either backing up my hate or admitting I was wrong to hate them.
In fairness, the only thing I know of Morrissey is The Smiths and I bloody hated what I heard of them, Johnny Marr's superb guitar work notwithstanding. Moaning Morrisey, who is so intelligent he believes Hitler was left-wing!!! 

Might disappoint you here but YouTube is how he originally got big. He was featured on SBTV's channel doing a song called 'You Need Me, I Don't Need You' and it blew up. Also, his rags to riches story is bullshit. There is this idea that he used to sleep on people's couches as a penniless musician trying to make it but he comes from a well off family. I thought something was up when I learned he was born in Halifax but speaks like he went to Eton.

Anyway I'm not defending him. Ginger tosser!

Well now I hate him even more. Thanks.

I think it's a great list and I'm looking forward to his post about Adele in particular.

Thanks JJ for your interest. I've heard I think two Adele songs, so who knows? Maybe I won't hate her. Ducks to avoid low-flying pigs...

To be fair, "hate" here may not be as literal as it seems. I may end up just hating the fact that some of these artists are so adored, when, having listened to their work, they don't seem that special to me.

Some, of course, I may truly hate. We'll see.

[jimmy jazz]

@Trollheart haha that's bang on. He used to be on TV a fair bit here a few years ago, not so much these days.

I heard an Adele song on the radio a couple of years ago. Thought this is actually good, surprised a bit. Then after up looked it up and I saw that Bob Dylan wrote it and it was a cover.

[Trollheart]

Yeah I'm sure her music is probably okay, but what makes her any more special than another female singer - Kate Bush, Sam Brown, Debbie Harry, even Nanci Griffith? This kind of hyperbolic shit annoys me:

Billboard credited Adele for reviving the music industry in 2011, the year of 21's release, and wrote: "She was a unique presence not only in 2011, but in all of the 21st-century pop: a preternaturally gifted singer and songwriter with a leave-it-all-on-the-floor approach to recording and performing — and also an earthy, relatable, and strangely unassuming personality both on and off the stage"

I mean, are you fucking shitting me Billboard dude? Music was dead until Adele arrived to give it the kiss of life? So you're saying all the work by established artists up to that point was for nothing? Prince? Springsteen? Madonna? Without Adele music would have died? Arrrggghhhh!!!

I suppose there's a 0.00000000001% chance they're right (yeah, not bloody likely) and I'll fall in love with her music and hail her as the second coming or something, but I feel my money is far safer on the option that says I'll probably say "yeah, some of her music is all right, some is very ordinary, some is shite, but overall no, she's not the fucking saviour of music." That honour, as we all know, goes to, and could only go to, the maestro himself.

Anyway, we shall see. Oh yes, we shall indeed...

[.]

Oh don't get me wrong, I love the idea of this thread honestly. I find it kind of fun to go back and listen to artists that I once hated to see if things have changed and sometimes they do. I'm just a big fan of the smiths so I'm giving you a hard time.

Plus I share a birthday with morrisey

[Trollheart]

I think the thing about Morrissey that I hate is not only his whining voice but his whining lyrics, although to be fair I don't know that much about him. The general perception I get is that he writes (wrote?) about things that upset, annoyed him or that he could or wanted to complain about. That's not my kind of thing. Sure, everyone complains in some way through their music, whether it's complaining about injustice or lack of money or gender equality or war or whatever, but overall I don't recognise most artists as whining, whereas Morrissey always seemed to me to be doing just that. Plus he exudes this kind of college-educated I'm-better-than-you vibe, which may be an affectation, I don't know. I will, as I always do, research into the man and his music before I listen to him.

Also, it should be noted that though I'm no particular fan of theirs, I haven't got The Smiths on this list. I don't hate them, I don't love them, I sort of shrug them if you like. I'm quite more than well aware that there are millions of artists out there that don't resonate with me, but that does not mean I hate them. More ranting to come, but now it's on to a girl who's so poor she can only afford one name. Aw.