2024 US Presidential Election

[DJChameleon]

I agree with you though, the terminology used should be done responsibly by politicians and those in the media (yeah, I know, keep dreaming). It's irresponsible when Trump uses the term 'illegal immigrants' and then says 'they're poisoning the blood of our nation' - it's not necessarily the term itself that's irresponsible, but the context language it's couched in.

And my criticism for Biden isn't that he wants to double back and use a different term, it's that he did it with an (alleged) murderer. The messaging and optics are just poor. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt a swing voter saw Joe Biden's SOTU speech where he referred to the (alleged) murderer as an 'illegal immigrant' and thought: "He really should be calling them 'undocumented persons', this language is just irresponsible" and was happy to see his retraction. Immigration is a big issue going into the election with the majority of Americans, and Biden had an opportunity to appear strong on that issue; when asked, he could've said: "No, I don't regret calling him an 'illegal immigrant' - he was in this country illegally and what he did was illegal". Instead, he looked weak and provided Trump with free ammunition.

So you mentioned something about optics. The optics are bad when you toss around terminology that the opposing party uses as a fear tactic for their base. Maybe undocumented person isn't as great or accurate but it is a hell of a lot better than saying illegals or illegal aliens. Migrants and Asylum seekers is better imo. He's always gonna look weak to Trump and Trump's base is always locked into him. All Biden had to say was this person was a murderer(allegedly) and it doesn't matter where he was from.  It's almost like Joe Biden fell into a trap and didn't know how to talk his way out of it. If an uncommitted voter is that salty over him apologizing for using a word they were gonna vote for Trump.

[SGR]

So you mentioned something about optics. The optics are bad when you toss around terminology that the opposing party uses as a fear tactic for their base. Maybe undocumented person isn't as great or accurate but it is a hell of a lot better than saying illegals or illegal aliens. Migrants and Asylum seekers is better imo. He's always gonna look weak to Trump and Trump's base is always locked into him. All Biden had to say was this person was a murderer(allegedly) and it doesn't matter where he was from.  It's almost like Joe Biden fell into a trap and didn't know how to talk his way out of it. If an uncommitted voter is that salty over him apologizing for using a word they were gonna vote for Trump.

It doesn't matter where he was from, I agree - but I think it does matter if he was here illegally or not (if he said 'undocumented person', he could've avoided the question of legality altogether, which is part of why Dems use it in messaging, I think). I think there's a substantive difference between someone who shouldn't even be here committing a crime and someone who's here legally committing a crime. The former shouldn't have even had the opportunity to committ the crime, and indicates that we have problems with our immigration system that need to be fixed. If it matters for nothing else, it matters for political messaging and influence in these two presidential campaigns.

Like you said, he kind of fell into a trap. If he just said 'undocumented person' to begin with, there wouldn't be any talk about this. He can't get on TV and grovel/apologize to Laken Riley's family, because then that would make him look incompetent and would paint his administration in a terrible light, in regards to border security (and would also play right into Trump's hands) - but by going on TV and talking about how much he regrets the word he used, it makes it look like (even if this isn't exactly what happened - optics) he's apologizing for using terminology that could be offensive to an (alleged) murderer.

If Democrats want to win in 2024, they need to tighten up their messaging about the border issue (and ideally, find a way to improve the problem - messaging is great, but obviously, real solutions are better and strengthen the messaging). It's not too late to do it because of this one flub - by November 2024, no one is even going to remember this incident - unless Democrats continue to flub the messaging and optics about the border problem, and the border remains as porous as it's been.

The reality right now is that 78% of Americans view the border issue as either a crisis or a major problem. That's a lot more than just Republicans, and surely includes a majority of swing voters. Given that it's a top issue people will be voting on, the messaging and optics (not just of this one incident, but over time) will matter. You can call it fearmongering, but Republicans are speaking to and acknowledging this issue (you bet they are, because it makes Biden and the Democrats look bad) and making vast (and possibly ethically questionable) promises of how they will fix it if people vote for them. The concerns and fears that voters have about it aren't baseless or removed from reality either. The influx of these people will strain resources like health care, social services and housing and inevitably, an influx of low-wage workers will affect wages for low-income earners in America. It's not necessarily that swing voters and independents think that a majority of these people coming through the border are bad people (in fact, I can only speak for myself, but some of the horrors and tribulations that these people go through to get here speaks to their bravery and courage, like the 38,000 economic migrants that came through the southern border from China [yes, China] last year), but rather they're concerned that our systems/resources simply can't handle all these people, and immigration needs to happen in a more slow and controlled manner. If Trump and the Republicans are the only ones who are consistent and clear in their messaging of how they will address and fix it, and Democrats continue to just blame the Republicans for the problem and don't offer a clear message/solution, swing voters will vote for Trump (everything else remaining the same of course, things could change if he's convicted of a felony), and that probably is a reason why he's up in the polls.

[DJChameleon]

I agree with your post. You said it all. Nothing to add really. Dems need to get their shit together all around.

[Lisnaholic]

Yes, it's really weird, but I also completely agree with SGR !

I like that you are using the word "porous" about the border, instead of the over-simplistic accusation coming all the time from Trump and the Republicans: that Biden maintains an "open" border that they will "close".

[SGR]

Somewhat interesting to hear foreigners' thoughts on our presidential candidates:

[Psy-Fi]

Black America Votes: Many Voters Say Money Is The Top Issue In The 2024 Race!

[Psy-Fi]

Aaron Rodgers and Jesse Ventura on RFK Jr vice-presidential shortlist

[SGR]

How about some levity?

[SGR]

So it appears, despite Joe's impressive SOTU showing, it hasn't had much effect on general election polls - at least not yet:

Trump vs. Biden Polls: No State of the Union Bounce for Joe

[DJChameleon]

So it appears, despite Joe's impressive SOTU showing, it hasn't had much effect on general election polls - at least not yet:

Trump vs. Biden Polls: No State of the Union Bounce for Joe

I despise polls in general. That's the one major annoying thing that I hate with the upcoming election all these stupid polls that doesn't really matter because things WILL change the night before the election and even the day of.

I hate election math.

[SGR]

I despise polls in general. That's the one major annoying thing that I hate with the upcoming election all these stupid polls that doesn't really matter because things WILL change the night before the election and even the day of.

I hate election math.

Yeah, I understand the feeling. They're supposed to be a snapshot in time of how the American people are currently feeling and leaning politically (and how accurate they are is definitely up for debate). But yes, it means very little in terms of that support/leaning will look like months ahead when it's actually time for the election. Can't forget October surprises - I'm sure we all remember the Trump 'Grab Em By The Pussy' tape and the FBI re-opening the investigation into Hillary's e-mails - all that last minute stuff does affect support.

[Lisnaholic]

Somewhat interesting to hear foreigners' thoughts on our presidential candidates:

I agree, SGR, it's always interesting to hear what outsiders think about your own country.
What do Mexicans think of Britain, for example? Their impression seems to be that it's always raining, that the country is beautiful like in a Harry Potter movie, but inexplicably we still tolerate having a monarchy, and what's all that football hooliganism about? We thought the English were very polite, as they sit around drinking tea from dainty cups - oh, and punctual as well. (When Mexicans plan to meet, they even have a phrase, "hora inglés" = "English time" = be punctual : "Let's meet at 7:30, hora inglés").

^ For me this was disappointing because, quite understandably, those Japanese teenagers have some very superficial impressions of Trump and Biden. I heard "He's funny""He stands out so it's easy to like him". In fact, all credit to them for having an opinion at all, because if I were asked about Japanese politicians, I'd stand there totally dumb on that subway platform in the video clip.

Although it's from 8 years ago and is only about Trump, this might give Americans some idea about how Trump is seen in Europe:-

And here's a snapshot about the European response to Biden's win in 2020:-

[Psy-Fi]

RFK Jr. to name wealthy attorney Nicole Shanahan as running mate in prez run

[Psy-Fi]

Trump suggests Prince Harry could be deported for past drug use

Prince Harry, who has recently expressed interest in American citizenship, has been the target of several Trump attacks. In an interview with British journalist Piers Morgan in 2022, he called the prince "whipped like no person he had ever seen."

[SGR]

Trump suggests Prince Harry could be deported for past drug use

This should be the highest priority deportation! 

I realize Meghan is an American, but is it possible Trump could find a way to deport her too?