2024 US Presidential Election

[Shhon]

[DJChameleon]

Kamala is pretty good when she's the one asking the questions and the spotlight of inquiry isn't on her (like when she was a senator during the Kavanaugh hearings).

But when the spotlight is on her, she often gets nervous, laughs awkwardly at things she shouldn't laugh about, and generally has poor optics (I think her team probably told her, after she became VP that she needs to 'laugh and smile' more, but she doesn't know exactly when doing so is appropriate). JD is untested in a field of debate on a stage this big, so the possibility exists that you're right, and that Kamala's team has improved her debate skills and stage presence. But I'd imagine JD will be a more direct critic of her and the Biden administration than Pence was - less polite, at least - and since Kamala has been VP now for four years and her and Biden have a record, there is much more to criticize. Not sure how Kamala will be able to handle that.

She's way better one on one than she is in the group setting. Vance has so much in his Senate record to get attacked for and if she sticks to his policies and some of the things he's said it should be super easy.

I'm looking forward to it if they actually set a date though.

[SGR]

She's way better one on one than she is in the group setting. Vance has so much in his Senate record to get attacked for and if she sticks to his policies and some of the things he's said it should be super easy.

I'm looking forward to it if they actually set a date though.

They'll definitely set a date and do the debate, given the age of both Trump and Biden. If the Republicans have learned their lesson, they will insist on vetting the venue first and setting up copious amounts of fly traps this time, since that's all most people remember about the last VP debate and made Pence the butt of many jokes. 

[DJChameleon]

I think, as I said already, what's getting lost in the haze here is the fact that one man died in the act of trying to protect his family, and that two more have been hospitalised. The kid who made the attempt got his father's gun and the FBI are now calling it a "domestic terror incident". We don't know the would-be assassin's intentions, but it's possible he just chose Trump and could have as easily gone after Biden - cops say he had "no specific ideology", so it's not as if he was a Trump-hater or fanatic Dem supporter or anything. White guy I think, so no racist motive there.

This guy that died was a raging asshole. Did he deserve to die protecting his family no but meh no love lost on this guy. Saw some of the hateful stuff he posted about Palestinians dying in Gaza and how they will "just have to get over it".

[SGR]

This guy that died was a raging asshole. Did he deserve to die protecting his family no but meh no love lost on this guy. Saw some of the hateful stuff he posted about Palestinians dying in Gaza and how they will "just have to get over it".

I think I understand where you're coming from DJ. If the guy didn't appear to have any empathy for innocent Palestinian civilians who are being killed and whose homes are being destroyed ("they should get over it, the Japanese did"), why should you have any real empathy for him dying? In logical terms, I suppose it might make sense, but I suppose I'd say the ideal we should strive for as a society, country and people is to be better than people like him - and try to hold ourselves to a higher standard, and have empathy for him and his family even if he was misguided. The man died protecting his loved ones from a bullet that wasn't even meant for him. Now his daughters don't have a father, now his wife is a widow.

I'd wager that if all of our social media posts were public info after we were put in a national spotlight, most of us could be fairly labelled as 'raging assholes' too. I know that when I was a teenager and a young man, I made some very, very stupid posts on Facebook. As a young man, I relished in the controversy and engagement it would cause and found it amusing to purposefully antagonize people on issues like religion. If I could take it back, I would now that I'm older and wiser. This dude who died also might not be that bright, in other words, maybe his primary source of news is Fox News. Maybe he's been brainwashed about Israel through years and years of watching Bill O'Reilly and Tucker Carlson. Similar empathy should be extended to those who might only watch MSNBC and think the world will end if Trump is reelected and were disappointed that Trump wasn't killed if they happened to be killed in a freak accident.

To our previous discussions, forget Hitler - you're right, the Republicans and Trump have all done their fair share of violent rhetoric too. They were more than happy to imply that Obama was a communist or some kind of closeted Muslim extremist who would bring about the end of our nation (I myself was quite happy in the Obama years, perhaps the best years of my life so far - I supported him when I was a high schooler, if only for the fact that I thought McCain and Romney were both too old and out of touch). Another recent example would be the jokes they make about the assault on Paul Pelosi. There's many more examples.

But, I suppose in my ideal fantasy world, we could all as Americans, both parties, take this moment to cool down and tone down the violent rhetoric about each other, to instead engage on policy differences, and to not slander each other in a way that makes each side look like an existential crisis for the future of the nation (which inevitably invites violence from the crazies). But, unfortunately, I don't think that will happen. This too shall pass, and in a month or so, the Republicans will be back to referring to Democrats as Marxists and Communists who want to destroy the country and Democrats will be back to referring to Republicans as Nazis and Fascists who want to destroy the nation (because, even though it does invite violence, fearmongering works in getting votes).

One more note of optimism: a call between Trump and RFK Jr. recently got leaked (look it up) - and in the call, Trump talks to RFK Jr. about the call he had with Biden and said:

"It was very nice, actually," Mr. Trump said. "He called me, and he said, 'How did you know to move to the right?'"

Despite how hard Trump and Biden go at each other publicly, it's nice, at least in my opinion, to see Biden, in private, being playful and joking with Trump during his phone call and it's also nice to see that Trump describes the call from Biden as an enjoyable one. It sort of reminds me of those silly AI videos where Obama, Biden, and Trump are all playing video games with each other and playfully shitting on each other.

I'm sick of living in historic times, give me a 'boring' president like Calvin Coolidge or something.

[degrassi.knoll]

This guy that died was a raging asshole. Did he deserve to die protecting his family no but meh no love lost on this guy. Saw some of the hateful stuff he posted about Palestinians dying in Gaza and how they will "just have to get over it".

RIP dj should he have been murdered exercising his political freedoms? meh no love lost though he was a raging misogynist that refers to women as "strays"

[Trollheart]

Yeah I have to disagree DJ. We're none of us perfect, but very very few of us deserve to die, especially not due to our beliefs and what we say. To be fair, what you've read about him is all you know, and as SGR says, maybe he was just misled/brainwashed, but the fact is that in the end he did what all fathers should be expected to do, protected his family. As SGR says, too, now his children have no father and his wife has no husband. Will he be elevated to the status of Republican/Trump martyr? Who knows? Yer wan that got shot on Jan 6 got that "honour", and all she did was break a window, so I don't know. If it suits the Republicans and Trump to turn him into a cause, you can be sure they will.

But at the heart of it is a man (possibly a bad man, but still) whose first instinct when he heard the shot was to protect his family, and you have to respect that. Also, we don't get to decide who deserves to live or die. As someone once said, every death diminishes us, or something, and if you espouse that kind of "he deserved it" attitude it's just your basic humanity being chipped away bit by bit.

Tell me this: if a bomb had gone off, Trump miraculously survived but many killed, would you have said "they deserved it for being at the rally"?

[Trollheart]

Okay hold on: is this The Onion or what? The Secret Service had intelligence that Iran was going to try to take Trump out, they "ramped up" their security, and this STILL happened???

CNN Exclusive: Secret Service ramped up security after receiving intel of Iranian plot to assassinate Trump; no known connection to shooting


US authorities obtained intelligence from a human source in recent weeks on a plot by Iran to try to assassinate Donald Trump, a development that led to the Secret Service increasing security around the former president in recent weeks, multiple people briefed on the matter told CNN.

There's no indication that Thomas Matthew Crooks, the would-be assassin who attempted to kill the former president on Saturday, was connected to the plot, the sources said.

[DJChameleon]

Tell me this: if a bomb had gone off, Trump miraculously survived but many killed, would you have said "they deserved it for being at the rally"?

I didn't say he deserved to die but he gets no empathy from me for his views because he doesn't have empathy for others. This scenario that you are making is a bit different unless it comes to light that most of the people that died at the rally had similar toxic viewpoints. I wouldn't say they deserved to die but I wouldn't show them empathy just for being a living person that passed away. So what we are all someone's family but when you put out toxic energy into the world then you get it back similar to karma.

[DJChameleon]

I think I understand where you're coming from DJ. If the guy didn't appear to have any empathy for innocent Palestinian civilians who are being killed and whose homes are being destroyed ("they should get over it, the Japanese did"), why should you have any real empathy for him dying? In logical terms, I suppose it might make sense, but I suppose I'd say the ideal we should strive for as a society, country and people is to be better than people like him - and try to hold ourselves to a higher standard, and have empathy for him and his family even if he was misguided. The man died protecting his loved ones from a bullet that wasn't even meant for him. Now his daughters don't have a father, now his wife is a widow.

I'd wager that if all of our social media posts were public info after we were put in a national spotlight, most of us could be fairly labelled as 'raging assholes' too. I know that when I was a teenager and a young man, I made some very, very stupid posts on Facebook. As a young man, I relished in the controversy and engagement it would cause and found it amusing to purposefully antagonize people on issues like religion. If I could take it back, I would now that I'm older and wiser. This dude who died also might not be that bright, in other words, maybe his primary source of news is Fox News. Maybe he's been brainwashed about Israel through years and years of watching Bill O'Reilly and Tucker Carlson. Similar empathy should be extended to those who might only watch MSNBC and think the world will end if Trump is reelected and were disappointed that Trump wasn't killed if they happened to be killed in a freak accident.

Yeah that's the issue with all this information from social media being public but unlike your edgy posts from the past. His posts were super recent.

Your past can be forgiven although there are plenty of celebrities that get canceled for stuff they have said in the past or have to get their social media scrubbed so that questionable takes are deleted and aren't around for people to bring up and hold them accountable for.

To our previous discussions, forget Hitler - you're right, the Republicans and Trump have all done their fair share of violent rhetoric too. They were more than happy to imply that Obama was a communist or some kind of closeted Muslim extremist who would bring about the end of our nation (I myself was quite happy in the Obama years, perhaps the best years of my life so far - I supported him when I was a high schooler, if only for the fact that I thought McCain and Romney were both too old and out of touch). Another recent example would be the jokes they make about the assault on Paul Pelosi. There's many more examples.

Biden apologized for using the term "bullseye" but in no way is the violent rhetoric equal on both sides. One side has definitely done it more and for such a long time and it has led to different things happening ie. Jan 6th.

[Trollheart]

It's the old story: two wrongs don't make a right. You have to have empathy without conditions. I even felt a little sorry for Bin Laden, in a way. I mean, summary justice? No doubt now I'll be told what about the thousands who died in the Towers? Nevertheless, the first sentence. Even the Allies recognised that the Nazis couldn't just be shot out of hand after WWII (though apparently that's exactly what Churchill wanted to do). I don't think the equation he or she said things I don't agree with/think are hateful = I don't care that they're dead. Like I said before, it's just part of dehumanisation once you start feeling that way. Thin end of the wedge. For all you know, the guy could have been a real hero (he was a firefighter after all) with some questionable beliefs. Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve an RIP and a bit of understanding.

That's how I see it, anyway. I guess your opinion is your own, but I certainly don't share it.

[degrassi.knoll]

I extend unconditional empathy to people as long as they meet my conditions.

[SGR]

Okay hold on: is this The Onion or what? The Secret Service had intelligence that Iran was going to try to take Trump out, they "ramped up" their security, and this STILL happened???

CNN Exclusive: Secret Service ramped up security after receiving intel of Iranian plot to assassinate Trump; no known connection to shooting


US authorities obtained intelligence from a human source in recent weeks on a plot by Iran to try to assassinate Donald Trump, a development that led to the Secret Service increasing security around the former president in recent weeks, multiple people briefed on the matter told CNN.

There's no indication that Thomas Matthew Crooks, the would-be assassin who attempted to kill the former president on Saturday, was connected to the plot, the sources said.

I heard that as well, but my suggestion would be to take this with a grain of salt and be very skeptical (it wouldn't be the first time CNN got a story wrong...and who EXACTLY is the source here?), especially because it implicates something very bad about one of our geopolitical enemies (*beating the drums of war*). I'm no fan of Iran, and I'm no fan of their very illiberal practices (e.g. their approach to LGBT people), but linking them to assassination plots against a former president has dire implications. And if war were to happen, it would make some people very rich, and those people definitely wouldn't be me or any other American here.

[Psy-Fi]

Police were stationed in building Trump gunman shot from


Fresh coffee, donuts, and cool AC indoors on a hot day.

Never mind those sounds you hear on the roof... it's just some squirrels.

[Lucem Ferre]

all this but-what-about-this or what-about-that is just completely irrelevant. Using fascist means to try to get rid of a fascist is simply a bad and dumb thing, it's as simple as that

Sorry, but that's literally retarded.

so what is it that you anticipate would have happened next, had Trump been killed?

Absolutely nothing. Trump is just the current mascot.

I just don't condemn political violence against a guy that killed thousands of Afghani civilians with drones, raped a 13 year old and supports Palestinian genocide.

I'd have the same perspective if it was Obama or Biden in the cross hairs. Both are pieces of shit that don't deserve this level of pearl clutching.