2024 US Presidential Election

[SGR]

Welp, Trump crushed Nikki Haley in her own state, sweeping the first four states.

Trump wins South Carolina, easily beating Haley in her home state and closing in on GOP nomination

Beyond Trump's legal problems taking him out, and beyond a health complication or some switcheroo at the convention, it's almost certainly going to be a rematch of the 2020 Presidential Election with Trump v. Biden in 2024.

I figured the general could use its own thread separate from the 2024 Republican Primary, so here we are.

Trump seems to have a pretty clear advantage in many of the swing states right now, but a lot can change in a year's time (which is an eternity in politics).

https://www.realclearpolling.com/latest-polls/election

So let us pontificate on the presidential race and bitch and complain about our choices.

It's election season, after all.

[jimmy jazz]

I don't like Biden at all. I'm not saying Donald is great but I really don't like Biden and I'd love to see him lose. It's probably best for him anyway.

Unreal that you have to choose between a potential convicted criminal and someone who should be in a care home.

Sad!

[SGR]

I don't like Biden at all. I'm not saying Donald is great but I really don't like Biden and I'd love to see him lose. It's probably best for him anyway.

Unreal that you have to choose between a potential convicted criminal and someone who should be in a care home.

Sad!

Reminds me of this ad Trump shared about Biden.

[Lexi Darling]

I implore anyone who thinks Biden winning will be worse than Trump to please look into Project 2025. This is bigger than both of them.

Only one party is openly stating their desire to remove women's rights, enact legal violence against trans and queer people, and enshrine all of it into law.

[Marie Monday]

That doesn't even capture the full scope of the danger though. Trump getting re-elected would be a threat to democracy in general, for everyone not just in the us but also in all of Europe, with the political trends here and Putin's warmongering. I loathe Biden but the alternative is much worse

[Lexi Darling]

That doesn't even capture the full scope of the danger though. Trump getting re-elected would be a threat to democracy in general, for everyone not just in the us but also in all of Europe, with the political trends here and Putin's warmongering. I loathe Biden but the alternative is much worse

Yes, absolutely. I wanted to hone in on some of the more specific issues in my post, but yes, it is very much wider than those.

If Trump wins and the republicans get their way, there most likely will not be any more elections.

[SGR]

Yes, absolutely. I wanted to hone in on some of the more specific issues in my post, but yes, it is very much wider than those.

If Trump wins and the republicans get their way, there most likely will not be any more elections.

A little hyperbolic, no? Feels similar to the claim that "Trump will start World War 3!" back in 2016, but even that prediction felt more likely.

Republicans aren't gonna end elections - their modus operandi in recent times has always been by the books, by the constitution, etc. It's why they so frequently lose elections. Democrats, on the other hand, are more willing to bend the rules a bit within the constraints of what's legal and what's not - which is why they win so frequently (recent example being all the advantageous changes they were able to enact in 2020 because of Covid).

The Republicans' own constituency would not stand for Trump and the GOP ending elections - if Trump wins, he'll likely (at least attempt to) push through some controversial policies - and after 4 years, he'll be heading off into the sunset and the Democrats will likely win in 2028, as there's no clear successor to Trump (who has galvanized the Republican party, getting more votes than any sitting president in 2020). And they'll, like they did after Biden won in 2020, reverse most policies of Trump they didn't like.

I still can't believe the Dems seem to be planning to ride into the 2024 election with Biden - especially given his approval rating and the poll results from the swing states. It seems like, even if they had some other stock establishment Dem like Newsom or maybe even Elizabeth Warren, there wouldn't be much chance for Trump, one of the most, if not the most, divisive candidates in history to win.

[Lexi Darling]

A little hyperbolic, no? Feels similar to the claim that "Trump will start World War 3!" back in 2016, but even that prediction felt more likely.

Republicans aren't gonna end elections - their modus operandi in recent times has always been by the books, by the constitution, etc. It's why they so frequently lose elections. Democrats, on the other hand, are more willing to bend the rules a bit within the constraints of what's legal and what's not - which is why they win so frequently (recent example being all the advantageous changes they were able to enact in 2020 because of Covid).

The Republicans' own constituency would not stand for Trump and the GOP ending elections - if Trump wins, he'll likely (at least attempt to) push through some controversial policies - and after 4 years, he'll be heading off into the sunset and the Democrats will likely win in 2028, as there's no clear successor to Trump (who has galvanized the Republican party, getting more votes than any sitting president in 2020). And they'll, like they did after Biden won in 2020, reverse most policies of Trump they didn't like.

I still can't believe the Dems seem to be planning to ride into the 2024 election with Biden - especially given his approval rating and the poll results from the swing states. It seems like, even if they had some other stock establishment Dem like Newsom or maybe even Elizabeth Warren, there wouldn't be much chance for Trump, one of the most, if not the most, divisive candidates in history to win.

I'm not going to try to have a political debate with you or predict anything. I am going off what Trump, the people behind the Project 2025 document, and other Republicans have said they plan to do. Do I think they will pass all of it with absolute certainty? No, maybe not. But they're spelling it out pretty openly that they are going to try.

[SGR]

I'm not going to try to have a political debate with you or predict anything. I am going off what Trump, the people behind the Project 2025 document, and other Republicans have said they plan to do. Do I think they will pass all of it with absolute certainty? No, maybe not. But they're spelling it out pretty openly that they are going to try.

Okay, where does the 'ending elections' thing come from?

[Nimbly9]

That doesn't even capture the full scope of the danger though. Trump getting re-elected would be a threat to democracy in general, for everyone not just in the us but also in all of Europe, with the political trends here and Putin's warmongering. I loathe Biden but the alternative is much worse

Putin literally said he'd prefer Biden to win 2024 though.

If Trump wins and the republicans get their way, there most likely will not be any more elections.

Highly doubtful.  He said he was going to throw Hillary in jail over and over again and never did it.  And that was something he was actually passionate about.  Dude can't even get a crowd to follow his instructions and you think he can somehow get rid of the other two branches of government with a magic wand.  If it was that easy to get your way in government, Biden would be all over it.

I am going off what Trump, the people behind the Project 2025 document, and other Republicans have said they plan to do. Do I think they will pass all of it with absolute certainty? No, maybe not. But they're spelling it out pretty openly that they are going to try.

People who get power politically try to get their way as opposed to letting the other party walk all over them? Shocking.

[Lisnaholic]

As long as we are polite to each other, which, to everyone's credit, we have been so far, it's kind of fun that we have our very own partisan divide on SCD, with the opposing sides apparently getting their news from different sources.
Surely there is a reputable balanced news source we can trust? Just out of ingrained habit, I trust the BBC to be pretty impartial, though a friend of mine denounces it for having a leftist agenda. I also watch NBC Nightly News progs, which actually seem to avoid political comment as much as they can, also PBS.
(I mainly watch CNN of course, and can see that several of their progs are overly-biased in the anti-Trump direction, but nothing as bad as Fox News, which I dip into for about five mins a week if a want a shock dose of "How can they say that with a straight face?")

Republicans aren't gonna end elections - their modus operandi in recent times has always been by the books, by the constitution, etc. It's why they so frequently lose elections.

^ With all due respect, SGR, this seems to be a rather down-the-rabbit-hole appraisal. That right there in bold is the reason why they have a recent policy of cheating the electorate if they can get away with it. Examples: the fake electors scheme, the discredited accusations against Ruby Moss and Dominion and that Jan 6 call to hang Mike Pence. The Republicans are surely demonstrating a perfect willingness NOT to play by the book, it's just that many times they don't get away with it. 

Democrats, on the other hand, are more willing to bend the rules a bit within the constraints of what's legal and what's not - which is why they win so frequently (recent example being all the advantageous changes they were able to enact in 2020 because of Covid).

By "advantageous changes" I suppose you are referring to policies that made voting easier/less of a health risk during a lethal pandemic (that has killed about 1.1 million Americans to date.) The "advantageous" bit, I suppose is (i) less people dying and (ii) more people participating in democracy, which long term will favour the popular vote = people prefer the Dems. 

The Republicans' own constituency would not stand for Trump and the GOP ending elections

^ If you watch Kleper and others interviewing the nut-jobs he finds at Trump rallies, I don't think you'd be so confident about this. Those guys blithely talk about civil war if Biden wins, or about Trump being sent by God. Even in the saner GOP, there is a high percentage of people who deny that Biden is President, and who have shown that they place loyalty to Trump over any ethical considerations that have been raised thus far. Also, don't forget a Trump-heavy Supreme Court that are acting like a loose cannon, with Judge C Thomas sitting in on every decision which he should have recused himself from.
I don't think the GOP would ever announce: "There'll be no more elections" but I believe them capable of so many sly tricks of voter repression and electoral-college manipulation that, if Trump were in office again, elections would hold all the suspense of elections in Russia (i.e. none)*

* Or as a British comedian once remarked on a kind of SNL equivalent: " Thieves broke into the Kremlin last night and stole next year's election results"

[jimmy jazz]

The BBC have a leftist agenda on some things. If you go on their home page right now there'll be several articles and videos pushing identity politics. They are really into that sort of thing. Not just reporting but also programming.

But then they do things like that Corbyn incident where they tried to make him look Russian in the run up to the election in 2017.

They're also very dismissive of anything Midland, to the point I would say they are almost anti-Birmingham (I realise that describes most of the country but the national broadcaster shouldn't be doing it). I've already posted about the occasion I noticed them photoshopping a derogatory article (which they then admitted and apologised for before deleting the picture), they just would not have written a similar piece about other places. One of our MPs got involved. They also take the most money in license fees from the region and invest the smallest amount back in.

So basically I don't really like them.

[SGR]

^ With all due respect, SGR, this seems to be a rather down-the-rabbit-hole appraisal. That right there in bold is the reason why they have a recent policy of cheating the electorate if they can get away with it. Examples: the fake electors scheme, the discredited accusations against Ruby Moss and Dominion and that Jan 6 call to hang Mike Pence. The Republicans are surely demonstrating a perfect willingness NOT to play by the book, it's just that many times they don't get away with it. 

I disagree - as we saw, the Republican party was completely divided over all of what you mentioned. You refer to it like it was some sort of party-wide plan, but that's far from the reality. Trump's second in command, Pence, blew up the entire plan. At best, this 'plan' encompassed Trump and his lawyers, not the Republican party.

By "advantageous changes" I suppose you are referring to policies that made voting easier/less of a health risk during a lethal pandemic (that has killed about 1.1 million Americans to date.) The "advantageous" bit, I suppose is (i) less people dying and (ii) more people participating in democracy, which long term will favour the popular vote = people prefer the Dems. 

That's certainly one narrative/way to frame it. Here's another:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/mail-in-ballot-fraud-study-finds-trump-almost-certainly-won-in-2020-post-5583575

Paste that URL into this site if the paywall blocks you:

https://12ft.io/

^ If you watch Kleper and others interviewing the nut-jobs he finds at Trump rallies, I don't think you'd be so confident about this. Those guys blithely talk about civil war if Biden wins, or about Trump being sent by God. Even in the saner GOP, there is a high percentage of people who deny that Biden is President, and who have shown that they place loyalty to Trump over any ethical considerations that have been raised thus far. Also, don't forget a Trump-heavy Supreme Court that are acting like a loose cannon, with Judge C Thomas sitting in on every decision which he should have recused himself from.
I don't think the GOP would ever announce: "There'll be no more elections" but I believe them capable of so many sly tricks of voter repression and electoral-college manipulation that, if Trump were in office again, elections would hold all the suspense of elections in Russia (i.e. none)*

* Or as a British comedian once remarked on a kind of SNL equivalent: " Thieves broke into the Kremlin last night and stole next year's election results"

This election, regardless of how it turns out, is going to be ugly. No voter base is going to be satisfied or convinced, regardless of the outcome. If Trump wins, do you think, for example, the Democrats will accept it as a fairly won election? Or do you think there will be more accusations of Russian election interference? And more baseless or crocked up investigations into what foreign actors may or may not have helped Trump get elected with their dastardly memes?

If the Republicans were motivated to end all elections and pull all these tricks to keep Trump and/or his allies in power, why wouldn't they have done it the first time? You know, when he was still eligible for another term (unlike next time, assuming he serves another term)? These fears of Trump and/or the Supreme Court ending fair elections if Trump gets elected again are just a Democrat fever-dream just like 2016 when they said the same ridiculous things before the election. And honestly, I think much of the fears the Democrats voice about what they think Trump will do if re-elected are just a projection - of what they would do if they were in his position and got re-elected.

[Lexi Darling]

Again, this is not projection on my part. They've literally said the stuff about trans people and women's rights out loud repeatedly.

[SGR]

Again, this is not projection on my part. They've literally said the stuff about trans people and women's rights out loud repeatedly.

To be clear, when I talked about 'projection' I wasn't referring to that, I was more referring to the Democrats fear of Trump enacting 'revenge' on them through lawfare.