Trans women in sports

[FETCHER.]

Yeah she is definitely not a trans woman so I don't know why it keeps being portrayed that way. I was actually quite surprised when I read that she was genetically XXY because of how much the reports shoved the word trans in my face.

[Trollheart]

You have to wonder what these type of people would have thought of, say, Martina Navratilova, or some of the more, what would you say, butch female East German athletes of the 1970s/1980s? Fucking hell.  Guess this is what happens when we live in a world when you can literally create your own reality, to suit your personal bias, and others support you.
#RIPTruthandLogic

[tristan_geoff]

You have to wonder what these type of people would have thought of, say, Martina Navratilova, or some of the more, what would you say, butch female East German athletes of the 1970s/1980s? Fucking hell.  Guess this is what happens when we live in a world when you can literally create your own reality, to suit your personal bias, and others support you.
#RIPTruthandLogic

and you have a personal bias that gender is a concrete binary thing that has existed the exact same way throughout history

the reality is that trans identities are real and this kind of dismissive logic really solidifies why it's a travesty that the older generations are the ones with the most say in how the world is run.  we are real and predate this colonial way of thinking

[Trollheart]

and you have a personal bias that gender is a concrete binary thing that has existed the exact same way throughout history

the reality is that trans identities are real and this kind of dismissive logic really solidifies why it's a travesty that the older generations are the ones with the most say in how the world is run.  we are real and predate this colonial way of thinking

I hope I'm reading that wrong and you're not accusing me personally of having a bias?

[tristan_geoff]

I hope I'm reading that wrong and you're not accusing me personally of having a bias?

everyone has a bias of some sort right?

you have the bias of probably not having talked to very many trans people during your life

[Trollheart]

That's a bit presumptious of you now to be fair. Other than what I post here, you know nothing about me. Whether I've met, know or are friends with such people is beside the point. I don't know many black people but don't consider myself racist. Do I have to have a lot of friends or relations with different gender identities to be able to sympathise with them? Frankly, if this isn't a troll, I'm quite insulted.

I also don't see the point of such a comment, or judgement upon my character, as I think I made it clear I don't support such bigotry. Different if I had said these guys have a point, but I didn't, because I don't think they do.

[tristan_geoff]

That's a bit presumptious of you now to be fair. Other than what I post here, you know nothing about me. Whether I've met, know or are friends with such people is beside the point. I don't know many black people but don't consider myself racist. Do I have to have a lot of friends or relations with different gender identities to be able to sympathise with them? Frankly, if this isn't a troll, I'm quite insulted.

I might be presuming a bit by saying that, and I apologize for the rudeness.  The whole, facts are logic are over with trans people thing is such a played out viewpoint that I'm sick of though, and feels incredibly demeaning and disrespectful.  Whether you meant it this way or not isn't really something I know though, and I should have approached the topic with less malice, despite that it may have come from a place of having heard this before approaching it with further disrespect is not fair to you either.

[degrassi.knoll]

That's a bit presumptious of you now to be fair. Other than what I post here, you know nothing about me. Whether I've met, know or are friends with such people is beside the point. I don't know many black people but don't consider myself racist. Do I have to have a lot of friends or relations with different gender identities to be able to sympathise with them? Frankly, if this isn't a troll, I'm quite insulted.

I also don't see the point of such a comment, or judgement upon my character, as I think I made it clear I don't support such bigotry. Different if I had said these guys have a point, but I didn't, because I don't think they do.

Because if you knew and communicated frequently with trans people you would be a bit more.. with it. Same thing with black people. It's obvious, lol.

You can not have trans friends and still be an ally, but you have to be willing to examine your own internal bias regarding gender identity.

You can not have black friends and still be anti racist, but you have to be willing to examine your own internal bias regarding race.

Clutching your pearls over being presumed not to have many trans or black friends is evidence enough that you don't lol.

[Lexi Darling]

I might be presuming a bit by saying that, and I apologize for the rudeness.  The whole, facts are logic are over with trans people thing is such a played out viewpoint that I'm sick of though, and feels incredibly demeaning and disrespectful.  Whether you meant it this way or not isn't really something I know though, and I should have approached the topic with less malice, despite that it may have come from a place of having heard this before approaching it with further disrespect is not fair to you either.

I think you misunderstood TH, I don't think he was commenting on trans identities at all; I read his use of the "truth and logic are over" hashtag to refer to how transphobes are making up their own reality by spreading misinfo about the boxer and calling her a man and such. TH has always been very supportive of trans identity, certainly supportive of me. I think this is a misunderstanding.

[tristan_geoff]

I think you misunderstood TH, I don't think he was commenting on trans identities at all; I read his use of the "truth and logic are over" hashtag to refer to how transphobes are making up their own reality by spreading misinfo about the boxer and calling her a man and such. TH has always been very supportive of trans identity, certainly supportive of me. I think this is a misunderstanding.

I think I did misunderstand yeah.  Sorry Trollheart my reading comprehensions is sai jfkldeiapoghreuiwnab iotneoiw ahgiorednji aj greowahnbijujlorfewaqhnbol joifehwa3hn 98grfes ior398 u(((*H gf4ew9uh jgrepoaj but I'm wokring on it

[Trollheart]

Everyone, it's cool. Lexi is correct though, and that was what I was saying. My hashtags were laments for the fact that people invent their own truth, and by that I do indeed mean bigots, homophobes (not so much homophones, but I hate those guys with their male attitude towards cell ph - what? That's not what it means? Well, I'll be jiggered), racists, right wing and all that crowd. I can understand both Steph and Tristan's anger if they thought I was saying something else. I wasn't.

Just for the record, and to make sure everyone understands, though I come from an era in which there were only two genders and four "choices", if you will - straight, gay, lesbian and bi - I have absolutely no problem with people identifying as they see fit, or prefer. Gender fluidity is "new" to me, someone who lived through a time when, for quite a while, even being gay was literally illegal and punishable by law (not that I ever agreed with that) but I'm not one to reject new ideas, if they're good. Remember, also, I had to come to terms with being able to telephone someone while out of the house, and pausing live TV! Yeah, I'm old but I hope not stuck in the past.

My own view is that if your gender (assigned) does not make you happy, if you feel better being or identifying as another, then more power to you. Do what makes you happy, is a mantra we could all live by (except that guy who gets his jollies from setting off bombs, now that I can't condone!)    But there is nothing - I repeat nothing - wrong with people choosing the gender (or even lack of gender?) that makes them happy, and those who try to force their own views and skewed morality on those people need to take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves why they feel the need to police people's - well, not even gender really, but humanity?

The Navratilova mention was to demonstrate how some female athletes - about whose gender there is no doubt, despite some off-colour jokes and remarks - can look more, if you will, masculine, and I just noted that had Martina been winning Wimbeldon in this age, the chances are these self-appointed Guardians of Gender would have tried to make out she was a man.

Anyway, long story short: gender choice good, gender choice bashing bad. I've always been of that opinion, and don't see myself changing. If I misrepresented myself please take this as setting the record straight (no pun intended). In the final analysis, are not rainbows prettier to look at than swastikas?

Peace out.
Troll.