How are we doing? Post your criticism here.

[Jwb]

I find that the ratio of discourse about Siouxsie and the Banshees to discourse about trans people in sports should be different. We need more Genesis P-Orridge than Gender Pee-Ouch if you get my drift.

I agree. I'd love to see more conversations about music, movies, books, anything low key. Right now this place has the same issue MB has had for years, where it's very skewed toward angry or incendiary conversation. 

Meh, I'm doing all I can to make interesting music threads. You could always read my journals, if you're desperate. Bit of Sherlock Holmes? Alfred Hitchcock? Perhaps some Irish history? Or maybe just make a music thread you think others may be interested in. You know how it goes.

They don't actually want to talk about music, TH.  That's why. They just want to whine about what other people are talking about.

How exactly is it an "issue" for you that there are people in a thread you don't care for discussing something you don't want to discuss.


It's the same virtue signalling nonsense people used to do on MB where they would criticize me for not posting enough about music and only posting in the lounge.  It was dumb on MB and it's even more dumb on here since it's not even structured as if it's primarily a music forum. 

[Jwb]

I find that the ratio of discourse about Siouxsie and the Banshees to discourse about trans people in sports should be different. We need more Genesis P-Orridge than Gender Pee-Ouch if you get my drift.

I agree. I'd love to see more conversations about music, movies, books, anything low key. Right now this place has the same issue MB has had for years, where it's very skewed toward angry or incendiary conversation. 

Makes sense as everyone came over from MB, but it should be easier to tackle it here.

What I'm currently thinking is perhaps we could change The Abyss into Politics and then people can opt-in to those sort of topics. They're the ones generating most of the conflicts.

you would be better off just getting rid of the abyss vs searching for a use for it when there isn't one apparent

if you think sectioning off politics to an opt-in only forum is a good idea i think you are in for a rude awakening.

At the end of the day,  contentious topics get more engagement for a reason.  If people really wanted to talk about Souixie whateverthefuck they would do so. 

[Janszoon]

Meh, I'm doing all I can to make interesting music threads. You could always read my journals, if you're desperate. Bit of Sherlock Holmes? Alfred Hitchcock? Perhaps some Irish history? Or maybe just make a music thread you think others may be interested in. You know how it goes.

My comment was given in the context of me having done all the things you mentioned.

[Guybrush]

you would be better off just getting rid of the abyss vs searching for a use for it when there isn't one apparent

As it is now, I would prefer to delete it, but since people other than myself wanted it, I am looking for a working compromise. If we can't find one, that forum probably won't exist for long.

It might be good if the forum's proponents could help figure something out.

if you think sectioning off politics to an opt-in only forum is a good idea i think you are in for a rude awakening.

At the end of the day,  contentious topics get more engagement for a reason.  If people really wanted to talk about Souixie whateverthefuck they would do so. 

Sectioned off to a specific forum at least. Then anyone can opt out as it's now possible to ignore specific forums.

(See Ignore Boards option in personal menu at the top of the page)

[Trollheart]

I'd agree this was not at the time set up as a specific music forum, in fact Tore and I worked hard on titles so that it would reflect a much wider scope, and what we ended up coming up with (both kind of stumbling over it in the dark, truth be told) seemed to really fit. So while yes, music is a topic here, unlike MB it's not seen to be the primary topic, and people can talk about sport or politics or the mating habits of the East African babboon if they want. There is really very little we won't discuss. It's also a fallacy, I believe, to try to steer the forum or its members in any particular direction, because, ornery like mules as all we humans are, we will just push harder in the opposite direction.

FTR, I also think the Abyss is not working, even though it was my idea. I'm ready to say it was a poor one and don't mind if it's sealed up with polyfilla and made into a landfill now.

[Jwb]

you would be better off just getting rid of the abyss vs searching for a use for it when there isn't one apparent

As it is now, I would prefer to delete it, but since people other than myself wanted it, I am looking for a working compromise. If we can't find one, that forum probably won't exist for long.

It might be good if the forum's proponents could help figure something out.

if you think sectioning off politics to an opt-in only forum is a good idea i think you are in for a rude awakening.

At the end of the day,  contentious topics get more engagement for a reason.  If people really wanted to talk about Souixie whateverthefuck they would do so. 

Sectioned off to a specific forum at least. Then anyone can opt out as it's now possible to ignore specific forums.

(See Ignore Boards option in personal menu at the top of the page)

If the goal is just to repress political discussions because they drive more contention then sure. I don't think that's going to drive more engagement in other parts of the forum.  It will just make the place slightly less active. 

You could just make a current events section and put it there but the more obstacles you put to people seeing or engaging wh that content, once again that will just dampen the discussions in that subforum.  I get why some people get triggered by specific topics but there's also a lot of knee jerk reactions to anything that can be percieved as "right wing" or "reactionary."  It's a thought terminating impulse some people have.

And i don't think there is a use for the abyss given the mood of most posters on here who seem uninterested in drama and even contentious topics in general.  I was probably the biggest proponent of it and i do appreciate the effort of making it but yeah. I don't think there's anything that can be done with it on a forum that is so tame.

[Jwb]

I'd agree this was not at the time set up as a specific music forum, in fact Tore and I worked hard on titles so that it would reflect a much wider scope, and what we ended up coming up with (both kind of stumbling over it in the dark, truth be told) seemed to really fit. So while yes, music is a topic here, unlike MB it's not seen to be the primary topic, and people can talk about sport or politics or the mating habits of the East African babboon if they want. There is really very little we won't discuss. It's also a fallacy, I believe, to try to steer the forum or its members in any particular direction, because, ornery like mules as all we humans are, we will just push harder in the opposite direction.

FTR, I also think the Abyss is not working, even though it was my idea. I'm ready to say it was a poor one and don't mind if it's sealed up with polyfilla and made into a landfill now.

it was worth a try my friend.

[jadis]

Had to Google Siousie and the banshees and it quickly dawned in me why i wasn't discussing it lol.

Here's a brilliant idea for you: start a discussion on it istead of virtue signaling.

I wasn't implying that I was not part of the problem

Tbh policing what others say is extremely not my thing but I also don't want certain users I enjoy talking to to be alienated from this forum. Though by saying this I'm alienating others I enjoy talking to by appearing to be policing them, so it's self-defeating. And yeah music isn't the primary topic here, true

Let's lighten up a bit (myself included)

Maybe the Banshees is not for you but there's some British post punk that might be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_YmixqepdI&ab_channel=RainesLoomiarr

[Jwb]

You know i don't dislike you but your post was exactly the kind of post that triggers the shit out of me because you don't remember this but i had a long history of people saying that kind of horse shit the first time i was on MB. There's really not much i dislike more than people whining about or trying to hijack a discussion they either don't like or don't find worthy.

I get you saying you think that specific topic might alienate someone but honestly i don't recall anything being posted in there that was beyond the pale. So if it's just the topic itself that people have a problem with then we have sort of a deeper problem in that people can't even stomach fairly contentious discourse at all.  I don't know how it's become so normal to  collectively walk on eggshells as a society but we need to dial it back a few notches imo.

And i wasnt dissing the specific band lol i was dissing the idea of people who say "why don't we talk about music?!" in general. If people cared to comment on it then no amount of trans sports discourse would prevent them from doing so.  The fact is that they don't.

But like i said bruh no hard feelings.  I get triggered too and you just stumbled onto the perfect kind of post to do so.

[Jwb]

Just clicked the link to the song... is this honestly not The Fall? It literally sounds identical lol.

[jadis]

All good man. I agree that censorship and esp self-censorship when it comes to difficult topics is a bad habit many of us share. Not you though and I respect that. That's part of why I'm here and not on MB   

Yeah it's the same period and style as the Fall and both are among my all time faves

[Jwb]

Yeah well here's basically how i look at it.  If all or most of the people who are pro trans object to the topic so much they won't even discuss it then that only weakens that side of the debate because the people who could be making it aren't.  That only gives your opposition virtual carte blache.

If the reason someone is abstaining is because of mental health or how close it is to them then fair enough.  But abstaining because the optics of the convo are iffy is something i would definitely reconsider. 

Then once you start trying to shame others into doing so as well, at that point we have a problem lol.

[Marie Monday]

I think I agree with you there. As far as my attitude goes, I hope it's clear that I'm not trying to censor anyone's opinion or fuss about the optics of things. I just say I object when I feel like things get disrespectful, just like you would in a normal conversation irl

[Trollheart]

Can I just once again quote those two wise sages who once said
"Be excellent to each other"?
Words to live by.

[jadis]

Great precept but it's difficult to know how to apply it when the stakes are high

Is there a way of modulating your tone of voice for the following words to NOT sound harsh: "nothing you endured at Israeli checkpoints gives you the right to deny the Holocaust"? Sometimes you have no choice but to say them. But, and maybe this is me being a coward (or just Canadian!), I won't go out of my way to put myself in a situation where I have to say something like this or enter debates about it willingly.