The censoring of Roald Dahl

[Toy Revolver]

wokeness can still be bad even if people who are against it often support worse things hate it

yes a lot of people are anti-woke because they're racist and homophobic

that doesn't mean it's not an ideology that's way out of hand -

it's like people on the cultural left think well as long as i always disagree with tucker carlson i'm always right - that's stupid -

the right have bad intentions (from pretty much all of our perspectives but they don't think so) and the left have good intentions

when they involve censorship they're both bad whatever the intentions

and it's nothing new? that's supposed to be an argument? news flash the past sucked

[jimmy jazz]

This generalising of conservatives and the right wing is getting a bit silly now.

Wokeness is more than just being aware of racism, you can say it meant x, y or z originally but people use it now to describe the extreme behaviour and daft beliefs of the left. For example the idea that you can't be racist to whites, wearing safety pins or the 'ban bossy' campaign. That's what people disagree with when they criticise wokeness, and then people on the other side act like they're supporting racism... 'but but... wokeness just means awareness of racism 🥺'

[Janszoon]

Welp, if conservatives decide to muddy the waters when it comes to discussing race I guess everyone just needs to go along with them.

[jimmy jazz]

Everything is the fault of conservatives.

[Janszoon]

Poor oppressed conservatives.

[Marie Monday]

wokeness can still be bad even if people who are against it often support worse things hate it

yes a lot of people are anti-woke because they're racist and homophobic

that doesn't mean it's not an ideology that's way out of hand -

it's like people on the cultural left think well as long as i always disagree with tucker carlson i'm always right - that's stupid -

the right have bad intentions (from pretty much all of our perspectives but they don't think so) and the left have good intentions

when they involve censorship they're both bad whatever the intentions

and it's nothing new? that's supposed to be an argument? news flash the past sucked

Dude the 'nothing new' thing was just a reply to trollheart because he claimed that it was new.

What I'm trying to explain to you is that 'wokeness' as some kind of coherent threathening ideology that's representative of the left is a fearmongering fiction from the right, and reactions to it are way out of proportion. I'm not saying disapproval of censorship is unreasonable

[Trollheart]

Aimed at Janszoon but the bloody quote system here is ridiculous, so I can't be arsed:

I take your point about changing from black to orange for the grunka-lunkas sorry Oompah Lumpahs (maybe Trump supporters will have something to say about that  ) but when you're changing words that are still used and have perfectly sensible meanings and connotations, in case someone takes offence, I think it's the wrong thing to do. Dahl removes "fat" (I mean, that's what the title of the article refers to) and changes it to "enormous". Um, how does that make ANY difference? So at least he's not saying "negative thin" or some shite like that, but I still think it's pandering. Of course he wants to sell books (and not die: he must be near it now; he looked pretty unhealthy when I watched Tales of the Unexpected recently, and that was in the 1970s/80s) and so is buying in to the whole "don't offend/don't risk offending" idea, instead of letting people make their own minds up. I find it a little insulting to be honest.

In the Pratchett example, that's not an example necessarily of almost self-censorship; that's just the kind of thing that made the producers of The Madness of King George change it from the original title of The Madness of King George III, in case Americans thought it was a sequel! 

But if there is an "enough" button, I think it's time someone pressed it. It's all fucking empty rhetoric anyway. Think because certain words and ideas disappear/are banned they will just vanish from life? It's living in a fantasy, Utopian land where everything is fine DON'T OPEN THAT DOOR no everything is fine.

People would do better to change their own attitudes and behaviour without having to be scared into it. I had a crazy encounter some years ago when I was on some trivia website and used the word "oriental", and was told rather snippily that it is now considered racist and I should use Asian instead. For the love of sanity! How is oriental an insult? People still make Irish jokes, you know. The idea you can remove things from society by pretending they don't exist is moronic. Meanwhile, nothing changes in reality but we all feel better? As we say here in Ireland, me bollocks.

[Toy Revolver]

What I'm trying to explain to you is that 'wokeness' as some kind of coherent threathening ideology that's representative of the left is a fearmongering fiction from the right, and reactions to it are way out of proportion.

tell that to donald mcneil

tell that jason kilborn

two examples that have rippling effects that erode journalistic and academic freedom

those are not fictions - they really happened

the fact that a law school and the most prestigious newspaper in the united states with all the institutional power instilled in them took these actions indicate that it's a real problem

i don't know how anyone could possibly think i don't understand conservative political tactics so let's not do things like censoring professors and journalists (or comics) that give conservatives ammunition because what they're saying is actually correct

academic freedom matters
journalistic freedom matters

those statements might be hypocritical coming from the right but they still weild the full power of the truth

[Rubber Soul]

People would do better to change their own attitudes and behaviour without having to be scared into it. I had a crazy encounter some years ago when I was on some trivia website and used the word "oriental", and was told rather snippily that it is now considered racist and I should use Asian instead. For the love of sanity! How is oriental an insult? People still make Irish jokes, you know. The idea you can remove things from society by pretending they don't exist is moronic. Meanwhile, nothing changes in reality but we all feel better? As we say here in Ireland, me bollocks.

I dare you to find an "oriental" twice your size and explain that to him.

[Toy Revolver]

People would do better to change their own attitudes and behaviour without having to be scared into it. I had a crazy encounter some years ago when I was on some trivia website and used the word "oriental", and was told rather snippily that it is now considered racist and I should use Asian instead. For the love of sanity! How is oriental an insult? People still make Irish jokes, you know. The idea you can remove things from society by pretending they don't exist is moronic. Meanwhile, nothing changes in reality but we all feel better? As we say here in Ireland, me bollocks.

I dare you to find an "oriental" twice your size and explain that to him.

they dgaf about that word - that's just something white liberals made up

[Psy-Fi]

they dgaf about that word - that's just something white liberals made up

Better not tell them whiteys about Negros Oriental in the Philippines.

[Guybrush]

I'd rather we don't start listing slurs or offensive terms. I don't always know what's offensive about a word, but I still try to be attentive to the people who might take offense. A slur word and its use is probably not important to me, but it may be very important to someone else and ruin their day or their month, so it seems better to be considerate.

[Trollheart]

True. I just don't see how it is a slur. Still, if it is, it is. Just don't call me a Paddy.

You can call me a Mick.

Actually, you can call me whatever you like. Just don't call me too early in the morning.

[Marie Monday]

What I'm trying to explain to you is that 'wokeness' as some kind of coherent threathening ideology that's representative of the left is a fearmongering fiction from the right, and reactions to it are way out of proportion.

tell that to donald mcneil

tell that jason kilborn

two examples that have rippling effects that erode journalistic and academic freedom

those are not fictions - they really happened

the fact that a law school and the most prestigious newspaper in the united states with all the institutional power instilled in them took these actions indicate that it's a real problem

i don't know how anyone could possibly think i don't understand conservative political tactics so let's not do things like censoring professors and journalists (or comics) that give conservatives ammunition because what they're saying is actually correct

academic freedom matters
journalistic freedom matters

those statements might be hypocritical coming from the right but they still weild the full power of the truth

again, I know that those things matter and I don't disagree with you there, but this rhetoric still hides a leap of reasoning. Anyway I don't think we'll convince each other

[Toy Revolver]

just remember that the same political sort that doesn't question runaway wokeness also had nothing to say about queer oppression until it became vogue - oh they're all onboard now that it's part of their tribe's political narrative but they had nothing to say about and did nothing to fight homophobia and related issues when it was still fringe - obama opposed gay marriage and so did the typical democrat just as recently as that - without even giving it a second thought they rejected queer love - now they got a lot to say

the common thread in their thinking is they're sheep