Kanye West

[SGR]

It's kind of apples and oranges to compare hip hop to traditional instrumental music. The method of its initial creation was entirely different. Hip hop started as a thing DJs did at block parties where they would take turntables and commercial records and remix them live to extend the parts of the record that worked best as party music. That's where the classic hip hop record scratching started as well. Eventually the MCs of these parties would start rapping over the remixed records that the DJ was playing, with the DJ manipulating the records so that only the instrumental would be heard so the MC could rap over it. That was the genesis of hip hop as remix culture, rather than a culture that was rooted in instrumental performance.

Once digital samplers came around in the 80s the remix culture element remained, they just switched to using less clunky tech that also enabled them to get more creative with chopping samples, re-pitching them and using lots more samples per track a la the Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique. A lot of people would sample a few different elements from different songs, and would augment their productions with sequenced synthesizers and sometimes acoustic instruments.

So it started with a totally different paradigm of art entirely from rock, jazz, classical, etc, and to appreciate the nuances of hip hop production you can't really think about it the same way as those traditional instrument genres imo.

I mentioned Paul's Boutique, you mentioned Paul's Boutique. It's very clear that Trolls is quite interested in hip hop and the how the history of sampling plays into it. I think the only way forward, which we all are probably in agreement on, is that Trollheart will need to listen to Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique 7 or 8 times and report back on his experiences after he's studied the samples used.

What say you, Trolls? 

[DJChameleon]

Mate 😂

Tell me this isn't dope with the beat.

[jimmy jazz]

Tell me this isn't dope with the beat.

Some really cheesy lines. Production dated and amateurish. Flow is very basic and sloppy in places.

Its a no from me I'm afraid 

Still though, K-Fed > ICP

[Lucem Ferre]

I don't understand why you insist on advertising your horrible taste like that when you should be ashamed. 

[Trollheart]

I heard Paul's Boutique and I weren't impressed. I don't like the Monster Kids. But in a general, mild way, yes, I guess I am interested in the whole culture/history of the rabbit music. I have dipped my almost translucent toe into the pool and while sometimes I've had to quickly retract it before it gets bitten off, more often than not it's been a pleasant experience. I certainly know more about it/appreciate it more than I did say 10 years or more ago.

Hip-hop > Trollheart

[Relutance]

I don't understand how pepole are activeley supporting a full blown nazi in the year of 2025

[Trollheart]

Hey, they voted one in to lead them, didn't they?

[Key]

I don't understand how pepole are activeley supporting a full blown nazi in the year of 2025

I was coming in here to say just this. Really sad how people here are playing it off as if this isn't a cold hard fact.

[Lucem Ferre]

I believe in enjoying art from shitty people because you don't have to support them to do that anymore.

But enjoying ICP is better because not only do they make better music but they are better people, too.

[Key]

I believe in enjoying art from shitty people because you don't have to support them to do that anymore.

But enjoying ICP is better because not only do they make better music but they are better people, too.

I'm all for separating the art from the artist's personal life but there are exceptions and it's hard for me to listen to Kanye West when I know what he's like personally now. And I was a fan of his music for a good while.

The Life of Pablo was and probably still is my favorite album of his but I just haven't bothered listening to it for a few years now.

[Lexi Darling]

I don't take stances against others' private listening habits and I listen to plenty of artists who have done awful things.

In the case of people like Kanye and JK Rowling who are currently actively pushing very real and dangerous hate movements and using their cultural influence to do so, there's a difference in my mind between consuming their art on your own time and repping it publicly, for example, wearing Harry Potter merch in a space with lots of trans people.

I don't even think it's a reflection on anyone's morality necessarily, I just think it's gauche.

[DJChameleon]

I wouldn't put Kanye and JK Rowling in the same boat when one is of sound mind and the other is trolling for attention in a manic phase. He said the worst thing to him is being threatened with hospitalization when he clearly needs it and that's why his wife left him.

[Key]

I don't take stances against others' private listening habits and I listen to plenty of artists who have done awful things.

In the case of people like Kanye and JK Rowling who are currently actively pushing very real and dangerous hate movements and using their cultural influence to do so, there's a difference in my mind between consuming their art on your own time and repping it publicly, for example, wearing Harry Potter merch in a space with lots of trans people.

I don't even think it's a reflection on anyone's morality necessarily, I just think it's gauche.

That's actually a really fair point or points that I didn't even really consider. I guess representing it and just simply enjoying it for your own personal enjoyment are certainly two different ways to appreciate the art of someone who's unruly or what have you.

[Lucem Ferre]

I don't think you can separate the art from the artist when it comes to Kanye.

His music is too personal.

[Lexi Darling]

I wouldn't put Kanye and JK Rowling in the same boat when one is of sound mind and the other is trolling for attention in a manic phase. He said the worst thing to him is being threatened with hospitalization when he clearly needs it and that's why his wife left him.

I honestly don't care if he's trolling at this point. He hangs out with actual white supremacists, sells swastika merch, makes direct threats to the Jewish people on Twitter, he's been doing that for half a decade now and frankly even if he's 100% trolling, does it really matter when he keeps doing it? I don't think it's unreasonable to consider him a contributor to the spread of far right hate. There's only so far "oh so and so is just being an edgy troll, that hate rhetoric isn't his real views so it isn't worth taking seriously" can be stretched, especially when he's involving actual neo nazis like Nick Fuentes.

And even then, just because he doesn't really believe the things he says doesn't mean he's not still contributing to normalizing that shit in an era when government officials with real power and influence are doing nazi salutes on TV and retweeting antisemitic conspiracy theories on the reg. Mental illness doesn't absolve him of negative impact on the world.