cis male is a slur

[Guybrush]

I think that if you meet an opinion or argument that you don't agree with in a space like this which is made for discussion, the best thing you could achieve would be to change the other person's mind about it. The only practically feasible way to do that is to engage the other person in a civil manner.

In a way, I think that's one of the great potentials of a forum rather than f.ex. the many facebook group echo chambers. So I hope people will see that opportunity and rise to that challenge. However, I understand it's not easy or even likely to succeed, so I'm appreciative of whatever patience and tolerance you can muster.

At some point, most meaningful arguments that could be made have been made and there's little further interesting discussion to be made. We might be nearing that point here.

[Jwb]

sup guys

[Trollheart]

Hey, welcome jwb!

[Psy-Fi]

Elon Musk says 'cisgender' and 'cis' are slurs

[Lexi Darling]

If only he cared that much about all the anti-trans slurs thrown at every slightly visible trans person on a daily basis on his shitty right wing echo chamber of a website.

Transphobes having a victim complex and making it all about themselves, as usual.

[Janszoon]

Elon Musk says 'cisgender' and 'cis' are slurs

No wonder his daughter hates him.

[Nimbly9]

The rise of terminology like cisgender and the pronouns thing is kinda interesting when you contrast it with Europe and the U.S.'s actual overall attitudes towards gender affirming care and all that. I've seen many people say that Europe is some kind of gold standard but most of the countries clearly have second thoughts on it, especially in regards to people below the age of 18. If anything, they seem even more stringent about it than conservative states here in the U.S.

[Lexi Darling]

I'd actually be fine with not saying the word "cisgender" if there were no longer a meaningful purpose to its use. All we need to do for that to happen is to just acknowledge and respect trans people's genders. If people just treated trans women as women, for example, there would be no real need for the distinction, we'd all just be women.

If right wingers don't like the word "cisgender", then they should stop necessitating its use by creating such division between cis and trans, lol.

[DJChameleon]

The rise of terminology like cisgender and the pronouns thing is kinda interesting when you contrast it with Europe and the U.S.'s actual overall attitudes towards gender affirming care and all that. I've seen many people say that Europe is some kind of gold standard but most of the countries clearly have second thoughts on it, especially in regards to people below the age of 18. If anything, they seem even more stringent about it than conservative states here in the U.S.

This should probably have it's own thread but what are your thoughts on states banning gender surgery for minors?

I know I quoted you but this is an open ended question. Anyone can respond with their thoughts.

[Lexi Darling]

I don't think bottom surgery for minors is medically advantageous, but it's also happening so rarely that I think it's not the real issue. The idea that kids are just walking into the doctors office and getting bottom surgery is a disingenuous boogeyman from transphobes used to drum up support for wider bans on hormones and blockers, which actually are more effective if started early.

[Nimbly9]

This should probably have it's own thread but what are your thoughts on states banning gender surgery for minors?

I know I quoted you but this is an open ended question. Anyone can respond with their thoughts.

I think until we have a better idea of how effective gender-affirming care in general is (in the long term) its better to be cautious than not for minors. As Mrs. Waffles stated, its a rare thing for any kind of surgery to get slotted in as solution uno anyway.

As far as adults go, that's their business and whether it helps or not is up to them at that point. Most of the studies done don't seem to see a ton of benefits to most forms of gender affirming care, at least in regards to younger people.  There may be newer studies that add more nuance to the discussion, but a lot of the European countries seem to have already made up their mind about it.

https://www.city-journal.org/article/yes-europe-is-restricting-gender-affirming-care

[Lexi Darling]

I think until we have a better idea of how effective gender-affirming care in general is (in the long term) its better to be cautious than not for minors. As Mrs. Waffles stated, its a rare thing for any kind of surgery to get slotted in as solution uno anyway.

As far as adults go, that's their business and whether it helps or not is up to them at that point. Most of the studies done don't seem to see a ton of benefits to most forms of gender affirming care, at least in regards to younger people.  There may be newer studies that add more nuance to the discussion, but a lot of the European countries seem to have already made up their mind about it.

https://www.city-journal.org/article/yes-europe-is-restricting-gender-affirming-care

Just saying, that site seems very right wing biased and that particular article is very clearly worded with anti-trans sentiment, so pardon me if I take anything it has to say with more than just a grain of salt.

[Nimbly9]

Just saying, that site seems very right wing biased and that particular article is very clearly worded with anti-trans sentiment, so pardon me if I take anything it has to say with more than just a grain of salt.

It is a fact that these countries are extremely averse in regards to prescribing puberty blockers and the like, much less surgeries.  I've seen commentary that somehow Europe is more progressive on the issue than places like California, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

[Lexi Darling]

It is a fact that these countries are extremely averse in regards to prescribing puberty blockers and the like, much less surgeries. Do you disagree with that or no.

I don't know anything about other countries, that wasn't what I was remarking on. I was just letting you know where your information is coming from so you can maybe take that into consideration when you post bold claims like "most of the studies done don't seem to see a ton of benefits to most forms of gender affirming care" so matter of factly.

[Nimbly9]

I don't know anything about other countries, that wasn't what I was remarking on. I was just letting you know where your information is coming from so you can maybe take that into consideration when you post bold claims like "most of the studies done don't seem to see a ton of benefits to most forms of gender affirming care" so matter of factly.

Look at it this way. If they believed in gender affirming care's benefits as far as younger demographics were concerned, their policies and approach would be different than they seem to be. Their skepticism seems to come from a different place than, say, places like Florida or Tennessee that just see it as some kind of frontline for a culture war.

Anyway, I personally don't see a term like "cisgender" as a slur since we live in an era where these distinctions "exist".