cis male is a slur

[jadis]

Anyone who uses the phrase "gender ideology" unironically should be mocked relentlessly for the rest of their life.

When it was coined by radical feminists in the 1970s, "gender" was a non dogmatic descriptive tool to help us better understand how the differences between the sexes play out in a specific society, especially how men oppress women.

Nowadays it's an ideology in the most basic and trivial sense of that word: a denial of observable reality in the service of an agenda. It's a mantra that works in the same way as THE ultimate ideological statement:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female"

[Lexi Darling]

Nowadays it's an ideology in the most basic and trivial sense of that word: a denial of observable reality in the service of an agenda.

What reality are trans people denying? Nobody is trying to say "I've changed my birth sex" or "I have no differences that distinguish me from a cis person of whatever sex".

It's still a descriptive tool. And trans people existed in the 70s, there's no "nowadays" about what you're describing.

[Queen Boo]

When it was coined by radical feminists in the 1970s, "gender" was a non dogmatic descriptive tool to help us better understand how the differences between the sexes play out in a specific society, especially how men oppress women.

Nowadays it's an ideology in the most basic and trivial sense of that word: a denial of observable reality in the service of an agenda. It's a mantra that works in the same way as THE ultimate ideological statement:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female"

Interesting, have you ever considered getting a life?

[DJChameleon]

I don't know if Cole has been brought up before in this discussion but after I read her story I just knew that Republicans would reach out to her to use her as an example to spearhead their bills to ban gender surgery in teens because of this one case.

Chloe Cole is just being used as a pawn and is definitely an outlier imo.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/i-was-told-transitioning-would-save-me-it-destroyed-my-life/ar-AA1fQgao?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b4ac3e3453204b078d7e6141170885f9&ei=32

[Lexi Darling]

I don't know if Cole has been brought up before in this discussion but after I read her story I just knew that Republicans would reach out to her to use her as an example to spearhead their bills to ban gender surgery in teens because of this one case.

Chloe Cole is just being used as a pawn and is definitely an outlier imo.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/i-was-told-transitioning-would-save-me-it-destroyed-my-life/ar-AA1fQgao?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b4ac3e3453204b078d7e6141170885f9&ei=32

She says she's never met anyone who transitioned as a child who is not in a horrible situation. What a lame appeal to authority, like girl you're 19. Sit down.

But for real, I actually don't think minors should undergo surgery in most cases. It very rarely even happens now, at least bottom surgery. Not familiar with top surgery for trans men though. But I get what you mean, they want to ban all gender affirming care and detransitioners who support that, even if they mean well, are helping the wrong guys.

To the republicans the 99 percent of successful happy trans people are invalidated by the sliver of detransitioners. Not that they even believe that happy trans people should even exist, to them we're all just perverted groomers.

[Jwb]

I can't think of any exceptions to the rule of no mascetomies for 15 year olds. Other than like breast cancer or something serious like that.  Sounds to me like this person did get fucked and has a legit grievance. 

[Lexi Darling]

I can't think of any exceptions to the rule of no mascetomies for 15 year olds. Other than like breast cancer or something serious like that.  Sounds to me like this person did get fucked and has a legit grievance. 

I'm inclined to agree, but I think that's a problem with her specific doctors and not the entire idea of trans healthcare for kids as a whole. I'm skeptical that there is some widespread phenomenon of manipulative doctors pushing kids into medically transitioning, which is the narrative she seems to be pushing.

Speaking for myself, and yes, this was many years ago, my parents would not let me even see a hormone doctor until I was 18, and after that I went through lots of psychological and medical evaluations before finally getting on hormones.

I think there has to be a middle ground between ignoring dysphoria and saying "tough shit, wait till you're 18" and "we need to get you on HRT now and and give you bottom surgery ASAP". But the right is disingenuously twisting the data in order to fearmonger, what else is new.

[DJChameleon]

I think there has to be a middle ground between ignoring dysphoria and saying "tough shit, wait till you're 18" and "we need to get you on HRT now and and give you bottom surgery ASAP". But the right is disingenuously twisting the data in order to fearmonger, what else is new.

Agreed.

Completely ignoring the dysphoria that teens experience is how you end up with trans kids suicides sky rocketing. The right wing want to protect kids so much from surgery that they don't care if they un alive themselves from the psychological damage they are going through in the process.

[jadis]

I can't think of any exceptions to the rule of no mascetomies for 15 year olds. Other than like breast cancer or something serious like that.  Sounds to me like this person did get fucked and has a legit grievance. 

Same with putting 12 year olds on the drug they use to chemically castrate sex offenders. There is a reason why the Tavistock Gender Identity Clinic was shut down in disgrace and faces a massive class action lawsuit, one of the biggest in British history.

"These children have suffered life-changing and, in some cases, irreversible effects of the treatment they received which has resulted in long-term physical and psychological consequences for them."

The reality behind the pink and fuzzy euphemism "gender-affirming care" is so fucking grim.

[Nimbly9]

Agreed.

Completely ignoring the dysphoria that teens experience is how you end up with trans kids suicides sky rocketing. The right wing want to protect kids so much from surgery that they don't care if they un alive themselves from the psychological damage they are going through in the process.

Well if it makes you feel any better, technology and science will definitely solve these problems in our lifetime.

[Queen Boo]

I don't know if Cole has been brought up before in this discussion but after I read her story I just knew that Republicans would reach out to her to use her as an example to spearhead their bills to ban gender surgery in teens because of this one case.

Chloe Cole is just being used as a pawn and is definitely an outlier imo.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/i-was-told-transitioning-would-save-me-it-destroyed-my-life/ar-AA1fQgao?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b4ac3e3453204b078d7e6141170885f9&ei=32

This is just an anecdote but I've seen trans people on Twitter who claim to have known Chloe when she was still transitioning and that she was completely shallow and obsessed with attention and showed little to no empathy for others in the community, she would be completely insensitive and refer to herself as a "hermaphrodite"

She clearly has serious issues, and no transition obviously wasn't the answer for her, do the doctors hold some responsibility? Sure I guess, though I think even she admits she wasn't exactly honest with them in the first place.

I'd have more sympathy for her if instead of taking responsibility for her own bad decisions she didn't choose to wage war against the entire trans community and become a propaganda puppet for a fascist political party.

It's kinda rich how the party of "personal responsibility" is so eager to blame an entire community because this one person screwed up wouldn't you say?

[jadis]

Well if it makes you feel any better, technology and science will definitely solve these problems in our lifetime.

Technology is great. Nothing beats technology for solving a narrowly defined problem but the notion that X is a problem to be solved is a value judgment. And just like that we're back in the realm of conflicting meanings and desires rather than technocratic fixes. 

For instance, you appear to be granting that the problem to be solved is what DJChameleon says it is. I find that the way he poses the problem makes it a function of the US culture wars, which I see as extremely deleterious.   

Not to mention that transgenderism on the scale it exists today, especially the unprecedented epidemic among young girls, is, if anything, an example of a problem created by technology and science. Don't feel comfortable in your body? We have just the high tech fix for that! 

[DJChameleon]

Technology is great. Nothing beats technology for solving a narrowly defined problem but the notion that X is a problem to be solved is a value judgment. And just like that we're back in the realm of conflicting meanings and desires rather than technocratic fixes.

For instance, you appear to be granting that the problem to be solved is what DJChameleon says it is. I find that the way he poses the problem makes it a function of the US culture wars, which I see as extremely deleterious.   

Not to mention that transgenderism on the scale it exists today, especially the unprecedented epidemic among young girls, is, if anything, an example of a problem created by technology and science. Don't feel comfortable in your body? We have just the high tech fix for that! 

He's just pro science and technology for everything if you haven't noticed by now.

The whole reverse aging topic that came up in the past.

[Jwb]

This is just an anecdote but I've seen trans people on Twitter who claim to have known Chloe when she was still transitioning and that she was completely shallow and obsessed with attention and showed little to no empathy for others in the community, she would be completely insensitive and refer to herself as a "hermaphrodite"

She clearly has serious issues, and no transition obviously wasn't the answer for her, do the doctors hold some responsibility? Sure I guess, though I think even she admits she wasn't exactly honest with them in the first place.

I'd have more sympathy for her if instead of taking responsibility for her own bad decisions she didn't choose to wage war against the entire trans community and become a propaganda puppet for a fascist political party.

It's kinda rich how the party of "personal responsibility" is so eager to blame an entire community because this one person screwed up wouldn't you say?

it's kind of ironic how some trans people have to basically throw detransitioners under the bus because their identity somehow makes your uncomfortable with your own identity. 

Like you can chastise them for getting used by the right but the left has no sympathy for them anyway because it's like every detransitioner is some sort of blemish on the trans movement. 

[Lexi Darling]

it's kind of ironic how some trans people have to basically throw detransitioners under the bus because their identity somehow makes your uncomfortable with your own identity. 

Like you can chastise them for getting used by the right but the left has no sympathy for them anyway because it's like every detransitioner is some sort of blemish on the trans movement. 

That's the only thing I'm chastising them for. I have nothing but sympathy and support for detransitioners who don't try to use their experience to delegitimize trans people.