cis male is a slur

[Lexi Darling]

I mean I get now that the religion thing was a joke but the rest of that post tracks with everything else he's been saying, which is still really transphobic rhetoric. He's mask off as far as being open that he doesn't see trans people's gender as legitimate, to say nothing of all the other, even more unhinged takes on us he's posted.

[degrassi.knoll]

It reads as absolute hyperbole to me, ticking all the boxes on purpose.

Idk about any of his posts on the topic outside of the thread though, so.

[Jwb]

Gender affirming care should not be a controversy. The only reason it currently is is because conservatives invented a moral panic a couple years ago over something that has been done since the 1950s. Trans people's lives being improved by HRT is not some wild hypothesis.

The brain study is, if nothing else, evidence that there is something different about trans people's brains, something that, if the long and storied history of trans people means anything, has been positively affected by gender affirming care/HRT.

Cis people undergo hormone treatments as well for their health issues and nobody complains about it. It's not about the treatment itself but the moral crusade against gender nonconformity and an effort by the right to de-legitimize trans people.

the controversy over affirming care largely centers around puberty blockers and treatment of minors. As well as the explosion of specifically young AFAB individuals in sweden and parts of europe who are identifying as trans. That's why they shelved the affirmative care model in sweden outside of a clinical setting. Because they were apprehensive about applying this model to a larger and larger pool of patients.  Especially since they didn't know how to explain the rise.  We have honestly been over this already.


And showing that you might find some differences in brain scans of trans women specifically doesn't demonstrate the efficacy of said care. Nor does it really reinforce the idea of gender identity being some sort of soul like quality you are born with. 

Think about it.  The gender theory on the left is based purely on self id. It literally is just an identity issue. If you are going to try to use brain scans to say that transness is a result of different gendered brain structures, then that would imply that if we have trans individuals who's brain scars don't resemble the expected outcome then we would disqualify them from being trans. But we would never do that because the entire point is just self ID. If you say you are a gender then you are that gender.  That's literally all there is to it.

That's why when they say they're seeing such an explosion of AFAB teens identifying as trans in europe, that does look at least superficially like an element of social contagion. I've yet to hear a good counter explanation by anyone for why they would have such a massive spike in specifically that one demographic.

As for cis people using HRT... it's not the hormones itself that creeps people out. It's the brave new world style approach of just artificially delaying the most important stage of normal human development to aid you in the process of changing superficial aspects of your biology to resemble the opposite sex. You have to realize there's no comparison between taking puberty blockers to delay an early puberty vs doing it to make for a more successful transition.

[Lexi Darling]

I don't think gender identity is a "soul-like" quality. And I also didn't say that people with that type of brain scan are the only legitimate trans people. If the science of it is correct, it might just be an potential explanation for some of us as to why our brains develop gender dysphoria, nothing more, nothing less.

Believe it or not, my ideas on transgender identity are actually fairly conservative and rooted in a more "old school" trans experience compared to the people on "the left" that you refer to. I'm not necessarily even saying there's no cause for concern with regards to some of what you've talked about. At the end of the day I think adults should have the right to undergo gender-affirming care, and to say the only things the right is attacking are blockers and sports is blatantly untrue. I am literally experiencing this firsthand; my clinic, which is affiliated with a Catholic hospital, has already banned gender surgery for all ages with the intent of banning hormone therapy.

It would be nice if we could focus on the issues that are legitimate concerns. But the right is not doing that. They're coming for all of us.

[Nimbly9]

Dysphoria is something of a black box. The medical world has a ton of hypotheses about why it happens and what the causes are, but there's very little consensus. It might be another decade before they really know.

[Guybrush]

Dysphoria is something of a black box. The medical world has a ton of hypotheses about why it happens and what the causes are, but there's very little consensus. It might be another decade before they really know.

Yes, but there's some evidence still.

Quote from Wikipedia:

Evidence from studies of twins suggests that genetic factors play a role in the development of gender dysphoria. Gender identity is thought to likely reflect a complex interplay of biological, environmental, and cultural factors.

Sources cited:

• Gender Identity Disorder in Twins: A Review of the Case Report Literature
• Transsexuality Among Twins: Identity Concordance, Transition, Rearing, and Orientation
• Approach to the Patient: Transgender Youth: Endocrine Considerations

Hard to explain fully for sure as there's a wealth of variables to untangle and about genetics, there's f.ex. probably not a lot of identical twins out there with divergent gender identities.

[jadis]

Being someone who is gender nonconforming, I've had my worries about the implications of the gender developments, but I think they're doing for more good than harm. That debate gets soured by assumptions of what men or women are supposed to be, on both sides

I mean, a lot of it sure does look like some postmodern gay conversion therapy...

girls struggling with lesbianism are encountering pressure from peers and social media to identify as 'trans', and clinicians are going along with this 'self-diagnosis'. Lucy Bannerman in an article in The Times of 8 April 2019 concerning the Tavistock's Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) writes that 'So many potentially gay children were being sent down the pathway to change gender, two of the clinicians said there was a dark joke among staff that "there would be no gay people left".

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/9002/pdf/

Or consider this lady https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/a43702/transgender-child-kimberly-shappley/

[Lexi Darling]

If that's true, and I'm not necessarily saying it isn't, it's definitely something that has changed since I was a teenager since everyone in my life back then went to great lengths to try to convince me that I was a gay man and dissuade me from pursuing transition at all costs.

[jadis]

Clearly a vastly different social situation from what we know, but interesting regardless 
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690

Marie, aged 37, is now staying in Kayseri after leaving Iran five months ago. She grew up as a boy, Iman, but was confused about her sexuality and was declared by an Iranian doctor to be 98% female.

"The doctor told me that with the surgery he could change the 2% male features in me to female features, but he could not change the 98% female features to be male," she says.

After that, she thought she needed to change her gender.

Hormone therapy seemed to bring positive changes. She grew breasts, and her body hair thinned. "It made me feel good," she says. "I felt beautiful. I felt more attractive to the kinds of partners I used to have."

But then she had the operation - and came away feeling "physically damaged".

She had a brief marriage to a man but it broke down, and any hope she had that life would be better as a woman was short-lived.

"Before the surgery people who saw me would say, 'He's so girly, he's so feminine,'" Marie says.

"After the operation whenever I wanted to feel like a woman, or behave like a woman, everybody would say, 'She looks like a man, she's manly.' It did not help reduce my problems. On the contrary, it increased my problems...

"I think now if I were in a free society, I wonder if I would have been like I am now and if I would have changed my gender," she says. "I am not sure."

[Marie Monday]

Based on my experience and that of people around me, this kind of pressure doesn't seem that common. It's more likely something that gets amplified in sensationalist stories. In any case, what's wrong is obviously the pressure to align with a certain norm or trend, whether that's identifying as trans (as in this article) or as cis (as Mrs. Waffles describes). It has always been that way and the problem has always been there, it's just the the direction to which it points has changed in some cases.

[jadis]

Not sure about that. One thing you hear all the time in places with huge queer communities like NYC and Montreal is "where have all the butch dykes disappeared?"

There is no equivalence between "pressure to be cis" and the other thing. "Learning to accept yourself as nature made you" is not the same as "you're gay so we'll cut your dick off."

[Lexi Darling]

There are approaches in between those two extremes, though.

And people change things nature gave them all the time, it's called medicine and surgery. HRT has had incredible mental benefits for me and most trans people in addition to physical changes. Just like how getting on ADHD meds helped me mentally and getting various surgeries helped me physically. It's healthcare, and quite frankly my life would be much worse had I never pursued it.

I don't doubt that some areas of LGBT culture might not be discerning enough of different identities regarding trans vs. cis queer people, but that's a problem with those people and their attitudes, not a problem with trans people existing.

[jadis]

I like how "you should not think of your gender nonconformity as a medical condition necessitating a cascade of intervention" is an extreme position.

[Lexi Darling]

I like how "you should not think of your gender nonconformity as a medical condition necessitating a cascade of intervention" is an extreme position.

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition.

And I didn't mean extreme as in radical, I meant it in the sense that it's one end of the spectrum between "you're definitely cis, never do anything" and "you're definitely trans, let's chop your dick off" as responses to someone questioning their gender.

Perhaps I could have worded that better.

[jadis]

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition.

I strongly suspect a link between your absolute certainty on this issue and your rushing to affirm my identity as a Soviet-born Foucauldian catholic.