cis male is a slur

[Nimbly9]

As far as trans-relevant news goes in 2023, this is the most curious point  - if Sweden and Norway (and I believe the U.K. and Finland to a lesser degree) are doing a 180 on some kinds of gender affirming care (which appears to be the case), then people should be paying attention and asking themselves why some of the most progressive countries on the planet are getting cold feet when they've been the biggest advocates for decades, especially when its the progressive politicians putting on the brakes and not some right-wing change of the guard.  Clearly there is more going on than we are aware of.  and it would be nice to get more clarity on their thought processes because it seems so different from what the U.S. says.

[jadis]

If I were to put it very simply, I'd say those sort of troubles or conflicts are not so much trans people's problems as it is sport's problems. The times change, sports should change too.

There's a definition of sex we use in biology. If they want, they could (or already have) make up one or more definitions of sex to use in sports. Possibly, they could abolish sex/gender in some cases and let people of different sexes compete based on their likeness in other biological parameters - like more similar to weight classes in boxing.

Similarly, the changing rooms or policies about who gets to use them can be changed.

It would seem weird to me to limit people's freedoms because it causes headaches in some sport they may or may not be interested in.

Yet somehow these issues end up being women's problems. The one aperçu I love in Marty's book (and which the Tablet article doesn't mention) is that gender is really all about women. Every time we're out to transgress, subvert, redefine etc the paradigm of the relations between the sexes, it's woman's place in the world that's being called into question or redefined. For good or for ill. The last thing this entails is the braindead conservative position that we should stop questioning our gender mores, turn the clock back and settle for (or rather violently enforce) the way things were in the good old times. It means being more rather than less critical.     

What you say is "we'll find a solution, logistics is not the issue." What if, though, the problems that arise in the real world esp with regard to women are a more reliable indicator of what the issue actually is? 

There are no weight classes in swimming. There are hardly any female swimmers the size of Lia Thomas and it's also a matter of muscle density, not just size. Most importantly, no one impinges on Lia Thomas's freedom to compete with other swimmers who have the same anatomy. Surely in sports anatomy is of the essence? What is then this "freedom" someone like Lia Thomas is seeking? Freedom to do what exactly? I'm not suggesting she's a sexual predator btw, there's no evidence for that. But the narcissistic entitlement to invade women's spaces dripping from her every word is, in my view, deeply revealing of what swaths of the M to F crowd are really about, which is to say an aggressive men's rights movement.

If they want, they could (or already have) make up one or more definitions of sex to use in sports.

That's what I'm talking about. I'm sure they can make up as many definitions as they want, but what would the effects be? When you make up definitions out of thin air and then enforce them in material reality, the consequences tend to be wild. 

[Lexi Darling]

It's pretty laughable that you consider MTF trans identity an "aggressive men's rights movement" considering how literally every trans woman I've ever known has been heavily anti-patriarchy and pro-feminism, with a big percentage of that being lesbians who want nothing to do with men.

I know you've posted some sussy stuff about trans people, but this is something else haha.

[jadis]

Oh I'm sure they're all against patriarchy and pro feminism, against all the bad things and support all the good things. These big words like patriarchy or imperialism or capitalism are incredibly cheap. Most of the time all they mean is "I'm one of the good ones so shut up."

But just as your typical anti-imperialist inevitably ends up condoning or perpetrating the type of atrocities he opposed, MTFs reek of male entitlement. They sound not at all like women and a lot like that which they claim to abhor.

Also I'm not entirely surprised that "trans lesbians" want nothing to do with men (what can be more natural for them than self-loathing?) and prefer the company of women. Lia Thomas, a bepenised trans lesbian, sure does.

[Lexi Darling]

Wow, you're really going full mask off with the transphobia and misgendering today.

Tell us how you really feel, geez lol.

[Nimbly9]

Are there any prominent examples of FTM overachieving athletes in traditionally biological male spaces?  Pretty much every "controversy" I've seen out there in regards to sports seems to be MTF in women's sports.

[Lucem Ferre]

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b

^^^^ article is about transgender regret rates. It says that the regret is mostly do to unsupportive family and transphobia. AKA abuse. Far different than sOcIaL pReSsUrEs. The rate of detransition used be higher because people would bring their gay child who likes to cross dress in thinking they were trans, but since being trans isn't a choice of course they detransition because they weren't trans in the first place.

FTR the year these idiots that don't actually care about women's sports started whining about Lia Thomas a cis gendered woman, Kate Douglass, broke a record for winning 3 different categories while Lia didn't get gold in any.

But they don't know that. Probably never even heard of Kate Douglass because nobody really actually cares about women's swimming.

Also, OH is a cissy.

[jadis]

I feel like the trans phenomenon is really complex and it's important that we don't needlessly complicate it further with something as useless as hate.

But being able to say that 2+2=4 is not hate. When you see a person with a dick and sexual interest in women demanding to be labeled a lesbian and let into female spaces, it can be tricky to keep a straight face.

Not accepting someone's view of themselves is not hate. It's a basic right in a pluralistic democracy.

[Lucem Ferre]

No it's hate, ignorant and bigoted.

And it's not a phenomenon, trans people have existed for a long time. It's just now entering the zeitgeist as we evolve as a culture.

[Lexi Darling]

I feel like the trans phenomenon is really complex and it's important that we don't needlessly complicate it further with something as useless as hate.

But being able to say that 2+2=4 is not hate. When you see a person with a dick and sexual interest in women demanding to be labeled a lesbian and let into female spaces, it can be tricky to keep a straight face.

Not accepting someone's view of themselves is not hate. It's a basic right in a pluralistic democracy.

What about a person like me, with a dick and a sexual interest in men? Do I meet your standards for having legitimate trans identity, oh great gatekeeper?

[jadis]

As I've already stated, I have zero interest in anyone's "identity". All this talk of identity is an American secular religion. Nothing but monotony and circularity. 

How society classifies gender, that's not only interesting but pertains to all of us.

[Lexi Darling]

I mean you certainly have a decently sized list of preconceived notions about our identities for someone with "zero interest".

But whatever you say.

[degrassi.knoll]

Bitches ain't shit is universal

[jadis]

I am fascinated with the trans phenomenon, know quite a few trans people, have a professional interest in gender theory and so forth. And I find that "identity" is not a particularly useful or interesting category.

[Lexi Darling]

Maybe you and I just have different definitions of the term "identity" then.

It feels a bit weird to hear you say you are "fascinated" by us considering how extremely shallow and reductive (to say the absolute least) your takes on trans women are, but go off.