Jan 04, 2025, 05:20 PM Last Edit: Jan 04, 2025, 06:31 PM by Trollheart

Has the sun set on two of the mightiest footballing powers of the last thirty years?

Before I was interested in football (I used to hate it) I could never understand why everyone - bar their supporters - hated Manchester United. No matter who they followed, everyone who wasn't a fan was part of what was colloquially known as the ABU, a non-existent reverse fan club which took the position that its "members" would support "Anyone But United". So if you were, for instance, a rabid fan of Everton and you hated Liverpool, and Liverpool were playing United, you'd still support Liverpool rather than the Manchester team. ABU, right?

But I didn't understand this. I could not comprehend the level of animosity and, let's say it, hatred towards one particular football team by the fans of every other one. Of course, once I got into football it became clear. In 1990, Ireland qualified for the World Cup for the first time ever, and rather than be left out of the conversations and discussion that would take over the office as the tournament progressed, and wanting, after all, like most of us I guess, to be part of something bigger than myself, I started watching the matches and soon found that, surprising myself, I really enjoyed it.

Once in, then, I saw how arrogant and brash Man United were, how they seemed to think every title and cup was their God-given right, and worse, how their fans behaved towards the supporters of other teams. I very quickly developed my own hatred for the Red Devils, and cursed names such as Cantona and Keane (never mind that the latter was an Irishman and also played for us internationally), Scholes and Bruce, and for their curmudgeonly manager, Alex Ferguson, who seemed to have the golden touch.

From as far back as the 1950s Man United had shown their superiority, but that lasted only until 1968, after which they fell into something of a slump until the years reversed and became 1986, when Ferguson led them to a total domination of English and European football which lasted well into the 21st century. Once he retired though, things began to go badly downhill, as we will see.
                             

For Manchester City, the "blue half" of the city, and fierce rivals of United, it was an entirely different story, almost the reverse. They had limited success in the 1960s and 1970s too, but only won the one league title (the Premier League then known as the First Division) as well as FA Cups and other trophies, but their decline was a far longer period than was that of the team they share the city with. In fact, during the time I got into football, Man City were very much seen as "the annoying younger kid brother" who hung around and got in the way. United never saw them as any sort of a threat, and they were rarely in the top flight at all. When they were, they usually did poorly.

It was only in 2008*, with Arab backing, and the appointment of Pep Guardiola in 2016*, that Manchester City ceased to become a joke, began to look like a real force in first English and then European football, and finally, over a twenty-year period, superseded and eclipsed Manchester United as the premier team from that city, and then from any city. Suddenly, the positions were reversed, as a Ferguson-less United found it really hard to turn on the style and went through many managers, none of whom seemed to gell, while City under their new manager went on to win everything in sight.

In recent months though, while United have continued to struggle, seemingly unstoppable City have hit not only a bump, but a real wall as their form has stuttered, stumbled and now seems to have been completely derailed. Their performance in Europe has been nothing short of dire, and whereas they should have been expecting to prepare to defend their seventh Premier league title, they now look likely to be struggling to even remain in the top half of the table, as Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and, um, Nottingham Forest make it a four-horse race, the ex-Champions forgotten and left behind in their dust.

So what has happened? How have we got to this pass? How did one team, who used to bestride English football - and European too - like a colossus, fade so badly and become a shadow of themselves, with fans booing them off the pitch and Old Trafford bearing shocked witness to the unprecedented sight of supporters streaming out in disgust long before the match was over? And how did a team which, having risen as it were from the ashes and dragged themselves back from the very depths of the lowest tier in English league football, with the world at their feet, trip and have such a calamitous fall from grace?

To answer these questions, we will need to take a look into the history behind both clubs, the intense rivalry between the "blue" and "red" halves of the city, the strides they made in the past and the mistakes they have also made, the players bought, the players sold, the fans, changes of management, changes in ownership and at board level, and any other aspects of the teams that have contributed to the never before thought of situation of Manchester losing its status as the top footballing power in English football.

* Corrections with thanks to our resident football guru, @jimmy jazz :thumb:



QuoteIt was only in 2001, with the appointment of Pep Guardiola and Arab backing, that Manchester City ceased to become a joke, began to look like a real force in first English and then European football, and finally, over a twenty-year period, superseded and eclipsed Manchester United as the premier team from that city, and then from any city.

They were taken over in 2008, and Guardiola was appointed in 2016.

QuoteAnd how did a team which, having risen as it were from the ashes and dragged themselves back from the very depths of the lowest tier in English league football, with the world at their feet, trip and have such a calamitous fall from grace?

They didn't drag themselves back (and they were never in the lowest tier), Abu Dhabi bankrolled it using a bottomless pit of money, artificially inflated sponsorships, false accounting and got charged 130 times by the PL for it. Since the hearing began, the teams performance on the pitch has dipped dramatically, as if everyone at the club knows something is coming. In short, they know they're fucked.

Only God knows.



I: The Busby Babes: Rise of the Red Devils

Like most Football League clubs, Manchester United can trace their beginnings back to the late nineteenth century, when football was just starting to gain popularity. If you read my FA Cup write-ups, you'll have seen that this was a time of intense interest in football, much of it springing from cricket clubs (who presumably could only play in the summer, since they relied on the English weather) and most of even the smallest clubs were formed around this time. Often, this meant little more than a bunch of guys getting together with an idea, seeking some backing, and securing a place to play. On other occasions, as mentioned above, football clubs sprung from cricket ones, as a means of allowing that county or area to have sports during the rainier seasons. Some of these clubs were part of young mens' associations, workingmen's clubs or even schools and churches, but all had the same, if you'll forgive the pun, goal: to put their area on the map by creating a football club to compete in the many and varied regional leagues springing up around that time.

In Manchester United's case, it was a railway company that gave birth to the embryonic team that would go on to dominate English football for decades. In 1878, the Carriage and Wagon Department of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway depot at Newton Heath, almost three miles outside of the city of Manchester, decided they fancied forming a football club. They called themselves, not surprisingly, Newton Heath LYR (for Lancashire Yorkshire Railway) and played their first game against Bolton Wanderers reserve team. It was not an indication of the later greatness they were to achieve, as they lost 6-0. Nevertheless, when the Football League was founded in 1888, Newton Heath transferred there from the Football Alliance, taking their place in what was then the First Division. They had a hard time though, and after two seasons found themselves relegated to the Second Division. By now they were just Newton Heath, and had moved to a new ground.

Like, it seems, almost every football club in the late nineteenth to very early twentieth century, Newton Heath narrowly avoided being wound-up, and with investment from four businessmen changed its name to, you guessed it, Manchester United. So really you would have to say the club as it is today is really only around since 1902. Under this new name and with financial security assured, the new club quickly rose out of the Second Division, even winning their first ever First Division title in 1911, a year after moving again, this time to the stadium that would remain their home till this day, Old Trafford.

Their initial glory was fleeting though, and between 1922 and 1945 the team bounced from division to division, being relegated then promoted, until Matt Busby took charge just after the war. Though it would take another seven years, Busby would take Manchester United to the top again, after which they would enter a fallow period during which the world of English football was at their feet. They won back-to-back league titles in 1956 and 1957, becoming that same year the first ever English football club to compete in Europe. Because of the youth of the team members, the squad earned the nickname "The Busby Babes", but this epithet was to have horrific significance only two years into their dominance.

On February 6 1958 the plane carrying the team, its officials and also some reporters crashed on take-off from Munich Airport, killing 23 people, 8 of whom were players. It was, at the time, Manchester United's darkest day, and that of football too. Busby rebuilt the squad, and with people like Denis Law and future legends George Best and Bobby Charlton, Man United went on to win the FA Cup in 1963, the league twice in  1966 and 1967, and became the first English team to win the European Cup in 1968.

The 1970s saw Man United fall from grace, being relegated and losing their star players, as well as the manager who had masterminded their rise. In a situation which would be repeated twenty years later, Busby seemed irreplaceable, and every manager after him failed to revive United's flagging fortunes. Until the manager of Aberdeen left his post to come and take charge of the team, and in 1986 Alex Ferguson became manager of Manchester United, a job he would retain for almost thirty years, easily the longest-serving manager with the same club. His impact was not immediate, but results began to improve, and by the close of 1987 United were second in the league, finishing just behind eventual winners Liverpool.

1992 and 1993 were turning points for the club, signing future legends Ryan Giggs, Dion Dublin, Peter Schmeichel and Eric Cantona, and by the close of the 1992/93 season they were champions, a position they would occupy for most of the following twenty years.



Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jan 04, 2025, 06:02 PMThey were taken over in 2008, and Guardiola was appointed in 2016.
Oops! My mistake. That's what happens when you research two football teams at the same time!  :laughing:
QuoteThey didn't drag themselves back (and they were never in the lowest tier), Abu Dhabi bankrolled it using a bottomless pit of money, artificially inflated sponsorships, false accounting and got charged 130 times by the PL for it. Since the hearing began, the teams performance on the pitch has dipped dramatically, as if everyone at the club knows something is coming. In short, they know they're fucked.
I'll address all this, plus any necessary corrections, as I go along. I'm sure I read they were in the third division, but I'll bow to your superior football knowledge. For now.




II: Better dead than red: Once in a blue moon

The origins of Manchester United's bitter rivals from the same city are somewhat shrouded in mystery, but they do seem to be rooted in a perhaps more violent past. During the later years of the nineteenth century, Manchester was subject to a lot of unemployment - perhaps as the Industrial Revolution took hold and men began to be replaced by machines - and young men with nothing better to do passed their time organising huge mass fights called "scuttles". As ever, the Church frowned upon this (though in fairness, you'd have to say, this time with good reason) and one rector tried to get the lads to channel their energies into more productive channels, through the local cricket, and later, football club. The team took their name from the rector's church - St. Mark's - and began initially playing other church teams, later changing their name to Gorton Association F.C., - Gorton being the name of the area wherein the church was located - and like Manchester United as Newton Heath, slowly losing their connection with the church as they metamorphosed into a proper football team.

The two teams came up against each other in 1886, with Newton Heath beating them in a horrendous 11-1 defeat in the FA Cup, quite possibly setting up a rivalry that endures to this day. The next year they moved to a new ground near a railway viaduct at Ardwick (perhaps unconsciously imitating the Newton Heathers, who had, you remember, been formed by the staff of a railway carriage office) and became known as Ardwick AFC; at this point, they became a professional football club. In 1889 the two teams put aside their nascent rivalry to play a friendly in support of a charity to raise funds for the victims of a local mine explosion, and in 1891 Ardwick beat Newton Heath 1-0 in the Manchester Cup, securing their place in the Football League.

1893 saw the club go through some serious financial difficulties, which necessitated the dissolution of Ardwick AFC, to reform the next year as Manchester City F.C. This then means that they were the first of the two Manchester clubs to adopt the name they still play under, as United only changed their name in 1902. It's also possible - these are all only guesses - that United (then still Newton Heath) took umbrage at ex-Ardwick's claiming of their city's name (although they came from outside of Manchester itself, as already noted), since they, United, had been formed first, even if there were only two years between them. Whatever the reason, it seems that the blue/red division the city now lives under, and has done for well over forty years, is not a new one, and could be said to stretch all the way back to the formation of both clubs.

City became the first of the two teams to win the FA Cup, in 1904, almost adding a league title in the same year but falling short. United would have to wait another five years before they would lift the trophy. But history repeats itself, it would seem, and the next year City were embroiled in allegations of match-fixing and breaking Football League rules regarding players' salaries. Ah, Pep! Sound familiar? The League took a dim view of this, though given this was over a century ago now, the figures seem piddling in comparison to the ones being dealt with now - players should be paid no more than four pounds a week, and Manchester City brazenly paid a staggering ten! Outrageous! :laughing:  All in the context of the time, of course: a mere ten years prior, City had secured their new football ground for the eye-watering rental of twenty pounds a year! Retribution for breaking the sacred rules was swift. The manager was banned from football for life and most of the players fined and banned from playing for the next year. City could have collapsed, and indeed they had to sell off some of their best players in order to meet the fines, and who was waiting to snap them up? Given that United then won the league thanks to these ex-City players, the reasons for that lifelong rivalry just keep stacking up, don't they?

Manchester City seemed to have some pretty bad luck in the early days, and while I of course can't say it was the case, I do have to wonder. Having had the honour of a royal visit from His Majesty King George V, City found their stadium the victim of a fire, caused, it is said, by a dropped cigarette butt. I see no accusation against, or allegations to same, but I entertain the - perhaps fanciful - notion that one or more supporters of Man United, stung at being passed over for royal approval, as it were, and jealous of the prestige City would have gained from having had the royal arse sitting on their seats, may have popped down the road to Ardwick for a quick smoke.

In any event, the stadium was unusable, and no doubt relishing the prospect of their rival club being homeless, United made sure plans to share Old Trafford with them were scuppered byy charging City exorbitant rent. I'm sure they had no intention of sharing their ground with their enemy, and anyway, surely the sight of those players United had snapped up when City had to sell them off, training at Old Trafford now for United, would have been a further burr under City's saddle? So in the end repairs were carried out at Hyde Road and Manchester City remained there for another three years.



@Trollheart yes they were in the Third Division but there are four tiers in the football league system. At the time, the Fourth Division would have been the lowest tier. Today it's known as League Two.

It is confusing, I know.

Only God knows.

Right, right. Gotcha. What we think of as the Third Division now is actually the second, with the Championship being the first. Yes, it is confusing. Fun to research though. Learning a lot. I've credited you for the corrections I've made in the OP by the way. Glad to have you along for the ride.


Quote from: Trollheart on Jan 04, 2025, 06:43 PMRight, right. Gotcha. What we think of as the Third Division now is actually the second, with the Championship being the first. Yes, it is confusing. Fun to research though. Learning a lot. I've credited you for the corrections I've made in the OP by the way. Glad to have you along for the ride.

Cheers Big T. Would it be asking too much to correct Manchester City's name to 'Cheating Cunts'?  :)

Only God knows.

I can see it now: two of the biggest clubs in English football - Cheating Cunts and Arrogant Bastards!  :laughing: