The Perceived Right to Revenge Through Murder

[Trollheart]

I read a disturbing article on the Irish TV station RTE website today, which notes that people are not only condemning a man for murder, but praising him, making him into a local hero. It's that guy who shot the healthcare CEO. Article here.
The killing of a CEO in the age of social media

I just wonder how far this will go? If people start making up their own justification for murder, how long before it's "the government takes all my wages in taxes so I'll kill an IRS employee" or "MacDonald's fucked up my order so I'm killing one of them" or even "My delivery was late so I'm off to blow up a UPS hub"? Is it really getting like that over there now? Is it going to get worse? Particularly under the incoming administration, can we expect to see a sort of "softening" of the law against murder, a case of "he/she had it coming"?

[Buck_Mulligan]

Typically after a gun violence "outrage" there are calls to strengthen gun control laws. Noticeably, not so after this one.

From a newsletter...

Luigi Lawyers Up: Luigi Mangione, the man accused of killing UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, has retained high-profile attorney Karen Friedman Agnifilo in New York. (Karen's husband is leading the defense for Diddy.) Interviewed before she was hired by Mangione, Agnifilo acknowledged that a "not guilty by reason of insanity defense" might be the best strategy. Mangione is now expected to waive extradition from Pennsylvania, where he is currently held on several charges; this means he'd voluntarily be transferred to New York, where he faces more severe charges, including second-degree murder.

Public Option: GoFundMe, the famous crowdfunding site, blocked attempts to raise money for Mangione. Instead, GiveSendGo, a Christian alternative that has drawn controversy for hosting far-right fundraising campaigns, is hosting an anonymous legal defense campaign. As of today, it's raised more than $100,000.

[Trollheart]

This is what concerns me. If it becomes normal to "defend", apart from in a legal way, this kind of murder, where will it all end? I expect attention will now be diverted to the much more serious mass shooting in Wisconsin, but even without that, this guy has way too many "fans". It's fucking scary.

[jimmy jazz]

I know you're not on Twitter TH so you'll have to take my word for it but this guy is being absolutely worshipped on there. He's like the biggest rock star of 2024. He's got legions of women wanting his cock after his selfies got leaked and the vast, vast majority of people regard him as a hero.

I don't think you understand how much he's loved unless you've seen it for yourself.

[Trollheart]

You're right that I don't go near social media, but I can believe it. Guy will probably end up in fucking congress or something. What's wrong with the world/Americans/insert old man-ism here?

I bet John Hinckley and JWB (the real one) wish they were living now. They'd be fucking (social) media darlings. 

I mean, to be fair, what did he do? He hid and shot a man in the back, a defenceless man, a man he did not know and, whatever your view of health insurance etc is, that's fucking Robert Ford level of cowardice.

[tristan_geoff]

The healthcare CEO in question has been responsible for far more deaths than the average serial killer, yet because he is responsible in a law abiding way this is being seen as a moral panic kind of thing by some.  What it is is class warfare, I think that despite the pearl clutching, these people cannot be held to empathetic standards because using reason and conscious against your oppressors is pointless. That doesn't get them paid.

In America, and largely across the globe but in a much more obviously fascistic sense here (especially as the years progress) violence is being made of our very lives daily, and no one bats an eye that we are forced to breath in toxic chemicals and work until we are disabled in order to survive, and doing anything less of that is seen as weak and disposable.  I am very glad that this is leading to further class consciousness in Americans and hope that real change will come of it.  For too long, people's health and ability has been a game to these rich people, this CEO even enlists AI to deny people of healthcare claims!  If that isn't morally apprehensible behavior, idk what to tell you.  You can talk about what a poor guy this was all day but he has a severe death count and I'm glad he got what he deserved.

[tristan_geoff]

I would hope one wouldn't think that a KKK member or a nazi or any member of an actively intolerant group actively killing people deserved a second chance either, while they are disinterested in seeing other points of view.  Applying morality to those without is a game not worth playing.  The American healthcare system sees dollar signs in people's pain and suffering, their disability, their deaths.  This was bound to happen and I wholeheartedly hope it continues to happen.

[tristan_geoff]

I wonder if people were advocating for compassion for those enabling the conditions for the French revolution to take place?  Probably, but in much different ways than now.

Read about the paradox of tolerance

[Psy-Fi]

I bet John Hinckley and JWB (the real one) wish they were living now. They'd be fucking (social) media darlings. 

John Hinckley is alive and well and on YouTube...

John Hinckley Talks About New Documentary


Says he has a new album out called 'Lonely Dreamer.'

[Buck_Mulligan]

I would hope one wouldn't think that a KKK member or a nazi or any member of an actively intolerant group actively killing people deserved a second chance either, while they are disinterested in seeing other points of view.  Applying morality to those without is a game not worth playing. The American healthcare system sees dollar signs in people's pain and suffering, their disability, their deaths.  This was bound to happen and I wholeheartedly hope it continues to happen.

Hold on a sec, who is the arbiter of morality, and how is morality defined? Is your morality different (better or worse) than mine or everyone else? Noting that morality and tolerance are not the same.

[tristan_geoff]

Hold on a sec, who is the arbiter of morality, and how is morality defined? Is your morality different (better or worse) than mine or everyone else? Noting that morality and tolerance are not the same.

I'm talking about using moral appeals to those oppressing you, the oppressed class being everyone that isn't rich that lives inside of a human body.

[Trollheart]

Yeah so like I said, if someone is seen as pissing you off it's okay to just shoot them in the street? Jesus Christ. I'm not saying the healthcare industry has not a lot to answer for, nor am I saying this guy didn't quite possibly condemn many people to death with the stroke of a pen. That's still not a reason for people to take the law into their own hands. So next it's this company is poisoning our air, let's shoot the CEO? Or any of the other, more minor examples given in one of my other posts? If you have a grievance take your Glock or AR-15 to the street? You don't think that sort of thinking will result in chaos and mass murder? Is that what you want?

[Lexi Darling]

I don't support murder, and ultimately I don't think much will change because of this one, but frankly at this point in America it's clear that there are some people who our current power structure protects and enables to abuse and extort the poor, marginalized and disabled. To those groups who have been abused by this system, going through the 'proper channels' to achieve change feels functionally impossible. The people feel powerless and abandoned, so many are struggling to survive, financially and health wise (and as this is America those two are directly linked), and while I don't think murdering rich CEOs will accomplish change either, I don't think it's the downtrodden people expressing their frustration with this inhumane system and finding catharsis in the statement made by Mangione's actions that we need to be vilifying here.

[Trollheart]

There I must disagree with you, but I guess you need to be an American to understand. I just can't condone anyone not only taking a life to make a point, but the outpouring of sympathy and support for him for his act of murder. I just couldn't see this happening in Ireland, but then, it's a different situation over here. I also though can't condone anyone saying "I hope this happens more." That's just sick. No pun intended.

[Lexi Darling]

I don't condone it either, perhaps I wasn't clear. I was meaning to say i understand and sympathize with the sentiment of being fed up with the inhumane American healthcare system that is being expressed by those who celebrate the shooting. I don't personally think such actions are productive, and I don't think Mangione should have shot the CEO. But I'm also not going to cry too hard about it and I'm not going to judge the moral character of the people who are victims of the disgusting inequalities in this country too hard either.