Trump Redux: The Death of Democracy, or Overblown Hyperbole?

[Auroras In Ice]

You said upthread that NATO has always been like that, so Trump aside, can you give specific examples of what you mean?

Not so much because I think NATO has functioned this way by virtue of the sheer power disparity between the US and all other member nations who are reliant on that force, and the use of the alliance as an apparatus for global American hegemony. Trump is mostly an extreme manifestation of this but like a caricature, it helps reveal some real features. So, I see it as more of a baked in feature of the overall design of NATO, even taking into account the truly aligned interests and necessary security of member states, rather than something that can be pointed to with specific examples particularly since most of what Trump is doing out in the open has previously been done behind closed doors. Jwb's point about this being more like private security rather than extortion is interesting because he lays out a lot of things in that post that I agree with, but we just seem to have a different conclusion on how to characterize it. I could probably dig around for some obscure examples to toss into the pot, but I'm about tapped out for the NATO part of the discussion because I'm seeing this starting to loop back to restating the same things again and again and again from a post where this was just one point among others. I'm just not so invested in this idea 

[SGR]

US tariffs take effect and Mexico, Canada and China retaliate with their own tariffs on the US

[Buck_Mulligan]

@Auroras In Ice
Fair enough, understood. I'll just note that no country has ever left NATO.

[Weekender]

Just make everyone's life harder for no reason, thanks Trump.

[Psy-Fi]

US tariffs take effect and Mexico, Canada and China retaliate with their own tariffs on the US

The UAW is pleased...

UAW Statement on New Tariff Action

For 40 years, we've seen the devastating effects of so-called "free trade" on the working class. Corporations have been driving a non-stop race to the bottom by killing good blue-collar jobs in America to go exploit some poor worker in another country by paying poverty wages. Tariffs are a powerful tool in the toolbox for undoing the injustice of anti-worker trade deals. We are glad to see an American president take aggressive action on ending the free trade disaster that has dropped like a bomb on the working class.

There's been a lot of talk of these tariffs "disrupting" the economy. But if corporate America chooses to price-gouge the American consumer or attack the American worker because they don't want to pay their fair share, corporate America bears the blame for that decision. The working class suffered all the pain of NAFTA, and we won't suffer all the pain of undoing NAFTA. We want to see corporate America, from the auto industry and beyond, recommit to the working class that makes the products and generates the profits that keep this country running.

The UAW is in active negotiations with the Trump Administration about their plans to end the free trade disaster. We look forward to working with the White House to shape the auto tariffs in April to benefit the working class. We want to see serious action that will incentivize companies to change their behavior, reinvest in America, and stop cheating the American worker, the American consumer, and the American taxpayer.

[Psy-Fi]

China, however, is not pleased...

China vows to 'fight till the end' as Trump escalates trade war

China has vowed to "fight till the end" after US President Donald Trump escalated his trade war by doubling tariffs on all Chinese imports to 20%.

Beijing hit back at Trump's levies by imposing retaliatory tariffs of up to 15% on selected American goods, expanding export controls to a dozen US firms and filing a lawsuit at the World Trade Organization. It also sent a stern warning to the Trump administration: Chinese people will never bow to "hegemony or bullying."

"Pressure, coercion and threats are not the right ways to engage with China. Trying to exert maximum pressure on China is a miscalculation and a mistake," Lin Jian, a spokesperson for China's Foreign Ministry, told a regular news briefing Tuesday afternoon. "If the US insists on waging a tariff war, trade war, or any other kind of war, China will fight till the end."

[Weekender]

"we won't suffer all the pain of undoing NAFTA. We want to see corporate America, from the auto industry and beyond, recommit to the working class that makes the products and generates the profits that keep this country running."

This is very naive.

[Auroras In Ice]

@Auroras In Ice
Fair enough, understood. I'll just note that no country has ever left NATO.

Awesome. I'm sure the topic will heat up again given the increasing calls from the GOP and Musk for the US to leave NATO and recent meetings of Canada and EU members regarding Russia without the US. Things are changing and it's hard to know what NATO will look like moving forward, if indeed it continues at all.


--------------------------------------

Re: Tariffs

Big day in Canada with Trudeau's statement this morning clarifying that Trump's intent is to cripple us economically so we soften up for annexation primarily as a means to capture our resources. Impressed with the unity and strength in the Canadian response including the retaliatory tariffs, potential for Ontario and other provinces to cut power and resources to the eastern US, and calls from a few cabinet officials to acquire nukes or secure nuclear protection from EU allies (which may have been discussed when Trudeau was in the UK meeting with Starmer and King Chuckyboy, but that's just rumor at this point). US products are being pulled from the shelves in many provinces and many have already been boycotting US products for weeks. Even our Conservative party leader who has been running as a Trump wannabe had a pretty pointed and strong statement. There seems to be a pretty strong consensus from the populace to hit back, hit back hard beyond trade war tactics, the Alberta premier who has been trying to play kiss ass with Trump and pushing appeasement seems to have finally shut the fuck up, and people ready for impact. The segment of the population who are MAGA cultists are still cheering and thinking that Trump is coming to save them and that they will live happy and free as American hillbillies.. because that's exactly how life would be like after annexation, just ask Ukrainians and Palestinians!

Not a fan of this shit.

[Weekender]

China deserves to take over. At least their autocrats are intelligent.

[SGR]

Trump address to joint session of Congress (basically the unofficial "State of the Union") for those interested - starting soon:

[Lexi Darling]

"Wahhh wahhh wahhh Biden did it! Immigrants did it! Trans people did it! I'm gonna censor the internet because the other kids made fun of me in class! Wahhh!"

what a whiny bitch.

[Lexi Darling]

MAGA is a white supremacist, misogynist hate cult that stands for nothing but suffering, rape and death. This is pure fucking evil.

[degrassiknoll]

It's so surreal to see my brother's death frivolously weaponized for political whatever the fuck this is

[Psy-Fi]

China deserves to take over. At least their autocrats are intelligent.

America could certainly use the upgrade in public transportation and infrastructure.

[Trollheart]

The BBC fact-checked some of the claims made in Trump's SOTU speech. Unsurprisingly, many are incorrect or misrepresented.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3ylpd2n9no?at_campaign_type=owned&at_medium=emails&at_objective=awareness&at_ptr_type=email&at_ptr_name=salesforce&at_campaign=uspoliticsunspun&at_email_send_date=20250305&at_send_id=4302337&at_link_title=https%3a%2f%2fwww.bbc.com%2fnews%2farticles%2fcp3ylpd2n9no&at_bbc_team=crm