Trump Redux: The Death of Democracy, or Overblown Hyperbole?

[DJChameleon]

Picture in the Wiki page. Time was you couldn't get one for less than $100,000. The shine has gone and now there are deals. The only color is steel gray, but some are doing extra paint jobs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck

Some? I keep seeing people wrap their Cybertrucks with advertisements for businesses. It seems like 80% of the most recent ones I have seen have been wrapped.

[SGR]

Some? I keep seeing people wrap their Cybertrucks with advertisements for businesses. It seems like 80% of the most recent ones I have seen have been wrapped.

No idea on the numbers relative to the total, but where I am, I've seen a fair few of them, but none were wrapped with advertisements. One had an army-green paint job. Using them as ads feels inevitable though - they are eye catching and it's hard not to look, it's a love-it or hate-it thing. I think they look ugly. But they are unique looking.

[Trollheart]

Musk's Mass Migrant Movers then?

[Lisnaholic]

Picture in the Wiki page. Time was you couldn't get one for less than $100,000. The shine has gone and now there are deals. The only color is steel gray, but some are doing extra paint jobs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck

^ Bit of a pun there, BM, given that the bodywork of a Cybertruck is prone to rust, I believe. From the article you posted and some YouTube reviews I've seen, it looks like a vehicle with many flaws, and several recalls in its first year. Eye-catching, yes, but isn't it also a vehicle that more than any other is tied to its high-profile manufacturer ? That means that the truck's popularity may be connected to Elon Musk's popularity: as a car owner, that would make me uneasy.

If you own one, it seems to me like you are publicly declaring your acceptance of Elon Musk's vision of America -and  that includes the freedom to manufacture vehicles that wouldn't pass safety standards in Europe. It's big and although it calls itself a pick-up, I don't suppose many people will use it as such, and if they do they'll realise that the stylish side-panels rising to the height of the cab roof are quite restricting. So, not a practical vehicle, but more like a tank, with its message to pedestrians and other road users: get out of my way, this vehicle has sharp edges and no crumple zones.

(*belatedly searches for soapbox emoji*)          

[SGR]

^ Bit of a pun there, BM, given that the bodywork of a Cybertruck is prone to rust, I believe. From the article you posted and some YouTube reviews I've seen, it looks like a vehicle with many flaws, and several recalls in its first year. Eye-catching, yes, but isn't it also a vehicle that more than any other is tied to its high-profile manufacturer ? That means that the truck's popularity may be connected to Elon Musk's popularity: as a car owner, that would make me uneasy.

If you own one, it seems to me like you are publicly declaring your acceptance of Elon Musk's vision of America -and  that includes the freedom to manufacture vehicles that wouldn't pass safety standards in Europe. It's big and although it calls itself a pick-up, I don't suppose many people will use it as such, and if they do they'll realise that the stylish side-panels rising to the height of the cab roof are quite restricting. So, not a practical vehicle, but more like a tank, with its message to pedestrians and other road users: get out of my way, this vehicle has sharp edges and no crumple zones.

(*belatedly searches for soapbox emoji*)          

I think you may be overthinking it Lisna, it more than likely is just a status symbol and a way for some dudes to peacock much like a similarly priced (but less eye-catching) luxury vehicle. I've been with my now wife for over 10 years now, so I've been out of the game for a bit - but I doubt most women would want to be caught in something so ugly and gaudy as a Cybertruck, but maybe I'm out of touch.

When I buy a Macbook, I'm not necessarily "publicly declaring" my acceptance of Tim Cook's (or formerly Steve Job's) "vision of America" or anything nearly so lofty. The only thing being declared is that I liked the product enough to purchase it. Not everyone is in tune with politics like some of us are that everything they do can be read as a tacit political statement.

[Buck_Mulligan]

2024 was the first year in over a decade that Tesla saw a reduction in sales. 1% to 1.76M

Cybertruck has its own issues.

https://electrek.co/2025/01/02/tesla-cybertruck-sales-are-disastrous/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=electrek/magazine/Electrek

[Trollheart]

But I think you're missing the point here, SGR, which is unusual for you. Steve Jobs or his Apple successor wasn't ever part of the incoming government, with a brief to basically strip the federal departments down to the bone, nor did either of them support so many crazy conspiracy theories. I think Lisna's right: in Musk's world, you're either for him or agin him, no middle ground, and buying one of his ugly Gerry Anderson-style behemoths is a tacit vote of support for him and by extension his policies. I know not everyone will feel that way, but it's like Spotify: once they endorsed Rogan I cancelled my subscription in protest, and will never go back. Did it make any difference? No, in fact it made my life as a reviewer harder as I have to now put up with YouTube ads. But it was me taking a tiny stand. So in the same way, not buying a CyberTank is, I think, a vote against both Tesla and Trump as well as Musk. Mark my words, they'll be everywhere this year, sporting the MAGA colours. Don't be surprised to see His Imperial Trumpness arrive to his inauguration in one!

[Lisnaholic]

^ "CyberTank" - nice one, Trollheart !

Perhaps I overstated those implications of ownership, SGR: maybe not every buyer was "publicly declaring acceptance...", but, as TH says, Elon Musk is visibly active in politics in a way that Steve Jobs, etc, never were. Also, I think your car says more about you (and to more people) than your choice of computer. Like it or not, CyberTank owners may find that fashion and/or politics will make them look foolish in the coming years.

There is one consolation for CyberTank enthusiasts, though: the Cybertruck isn't as disastrous as the Sinclair C5, which is a cautionary tale about innovative vehicle design from a manufacturer with a bunch of successes under his belt:-

Do you remember those being in the news, TH? You won't remember them for being on the road though, that's for sure ! I never saw one irl, and I'm not expecting to see a CyberTank either.

[SGR]

But I think you're missing the point here, SGR, which is unusual for you. Steve Jobs or his Apple successor wasn't ever part of the incoming government, with a brief to basically strip the federal departments down to the bone, nor did either of them support so many crazy conspiracy theories. I think Lisna's right: in Musk's world, you're either for him or agin him, no middle ground, and buying one of his ugly Gerry Anderson-style behemoths is a tacit vote of support for him and by extension his policies. I know not everyone will feel that way, but it's like Spotify: once they endorsed Rogan I cancelled my subscription in protest, and will never go back. Did it make any difference? No, in fact it made my life as a reviewer harder as I have to now put up with YouTube ads. But it was me taking a tiny stand. So in the same way, not buying a CyberTank is, I think, a vote against both Tesla and Trump as well as Musk. Mark my words, they'll be everywhere this year, sporting the MAGA colours. Don't be surprised to see His Imperial Trumpness arrive to his inauguration in one!

Like I said, not everyone (and I'd argue most people in America) is that politically in-tune, connecting all the dots between the CEO and corporate leadership of the company they do business with and their role (if any) in political initiatives - with the thought that they want to make some kind of difference or statement of support with their purchase. If you view voting with your wallet as an effective way to protest what you disagree with, more power to you. But to view everyone who's purchased a Cybertruck (which has been available for order since 2019) as some kind of conspiracy theorist or extreme budget hawk in complete lockstep political agreement with Elon Musk/Trump is completely silly.

When I see people purchasing a pint of Ben & Jerry's, I don't default to assuming they're some kind of progressive, climate-concerned, tree-hugging lefty, I just assume they like the ice cream. Because regardless of your political convictions, their ice cream is pretty damned good.

[Lisnaholic]

SGR: I imagine that you, me and TH all have a tendency to emphasise aspects that suit our arguments, while downplaying other details. In your latest post, for instance, I looked at this sentence: 

Like I said, not everyone (and I'd argue most people in America) is that politically in-tune, connecting all the dots between the CEO and corporate leadership of the company they do business with and their role (if any) in political initiatives - with the thought that they want to make some kind of difference or statement of support with their purchase.

...then I wondered how "politically in-tune, connecting all the dots" you really need to be with regard to Musk and the CyberTruck. In fact you just have to dip into mainstream media occasionally, and the dots will be connected for you:-





Here's someone who connected the dots:- https://gizmodo.com/app/uploads/2024/06/0c6718fdefc9046c5bfc857125a60ba9-1024x576.jpg

If you view voting with your wallet as an effective way to protest what you disagree with, more power to you. But to view everyone who's purchased a Cybertruck (which has been available for order since 2019) as some kind of conspiracy theorist or extreme budget hawk in complete lockstep political agreement with Elon Musk/Trump is completely silly.

^ I don't think either TH or me are making that claim exactly.

When I see people purchasing a pint of Ben & Jerry's, I don't default to assuming they're some kind of progressive, climate-concerned, tree-hugging lefty, I just assume they like the ice cream. Because regardless of your political convictions, their ice cream is pretty damned good.

^ I've also read that it's popular on account of its  quality, so your attitude is very sensible.
 
...and on the topic of boycotts, that you mention earlier, ("more power to you"), I think they may be fairly commonplace. I have friends who avoid brands like Nestlé (aggressively suggesting in Africa that powdered milk is better for a baby than breast-feeding), and another friend who uses this website:-
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/ethicalcampaigns

Also, plenty of religious and other groups use the tool of boycotting. As a child, I remember the Catholic church boycotting this or that example of the Devil's work - and I bet someone somewhere is boycotting Ben&Jerry's, so watch out next time you're picking up some icecream

[Trollheart]

It's hard to say of course, as I know/knew nothing about these Cyber Battle Tanks until yesterday, but the B&J comparison is good in a way, as you said: "Their ice-cream is very good." Isn't the case that the CBT (now there's an acronym Musky won't want associated with his vehicles!)  is NOT good? It can't give good mileage (2 to the gallon?), it must be a bitch parking (all those other cars, or former cars, on which to leave notes SORRY I CRUSHED YOUR INFERIOR VEHICLE DUDE! BUY TESLA!) is ugly as sin and I imagine not too easy to insure ("You want to insure WHAT? Are you going back to Iraq? I see... a Glock, pointed at my kneecaps. You make a good point, sir. Sarah! Where are those insurance forms? Uh, quick as you can, love!") and then, to add to that, you have to fucking advertise for Musk as his damned company name is on the thing! So overall, not many pluses I would think, and somewhat like a Hummer, no real reason to buy one (and less now surely with the explosion)?

As for C5s, Lisna, I never saw one (anyone driving/riding/pushing/pulling one of those around here would have been laughed at by kids on trikes and quads) but I certainly heard of them. Didn't Sir Clive also invent the ZX Spectrum? Case proven, I think.

And no, SGR, I wasn't making that point you bolded, but like the clothes we wear, and as Lisna says, these days and especially in America, you are what you drive.

[SGR]

SGR: I imagine that you, me and TH all have a tendency to emphasise aspects that suit our arguments, while downplaying other details. In your latest post, for instance, I looked at this sentence: 

...then I wondered how "politically in-tune, connecting all the dots" you really need to be with regard to Musk and the CyberTruck. In fact you just have to dip into mainstream media occasionally, and the dots will be connected for you:-





Here's someone who connected the dots:- https://gizmodo.com/app/uploads/2024/06/0c6718fdefc9046c5bfc857125a60ba9-1024x576.jpg


^ I don't think either TH or me are making that claim exactly.

^ I've also read that it's popular on account of its  quality, so your attitude is very sensible.
 
...and on the topic of boycotts, that you mention earlier, ("more power to you"), I think they may be fairly commonplace. I have friends who avoid brands like Nestlé (aggressively suggesting in Africa that powdered milk is better for a baby than breast-feeding), and another friend who uses this website:-
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/ethicalcampaigns

Also, plenty of religious and other groups use the tool of boycotting. As a child, I remember the Catholic church boycotting this or that example of the Devil's work - and I bet someone somewhere is boycotting Ben&Jerry's, so watch out next time you're picking up some icecream

That's fair - I will say, to one of your previous points that your choice of vehicle can say a lot about you does ring true in my mind with stereotypes and snap judgements as you see certian vehicles (which are often times not fair). Which of course, I have in my mind as well with certain vehicles. I think we're probably talking about a similar thing, but with an obnoxiously showy vehicle like a cybertruck, I'd guess it appeals more to an individual's personal vanity, rather than to their political beliefs or deference to/knowledge of Elon Musk's personal politics. The "Look at me! Look at how big and imposing my vehicle is! Look at how unique it is and how it sticks out like a sore thumb in the parking lot!" - and then of course they'll have practical justifications to explain all the benefits they have with the vehicle and why they just had to have it. Back to the peacocking thing I mentioned earlier, that is an assumption I'd make of a Cybertruck owner/driver, similar to how you might make the assumption about their politics. It's not that different I suppose; it's probably a similar demographic to the type of people who ride around in big loud lifted trucks that are so clean, you know they're rarely ever used for real work - except the cybertruck appeals to the "tech bro" niche of this demographic who would love to tell you their predictions for which cryptocurrency is going to see big gains this year and which recent AI tech has impressed them.   

I just don't think it's as accurate a proxy for someone's political beliefs as you and Trolls seem to. Consumerism in America > political awareness, so to say. Even if you might think: "How could one NOT know how involved Elon Musk has been in Trump's campaign, and the personal role he's going to play in the upcoming administration", don't forget this little nugget of knowledge we got after the election - a lot of Americans are just very politically tuned-out (and we're worse off for that) - and also, I'm sure there's plenty of Tesla owners who really like the product and the brand, but aren't exactly Musk's biggest cheerleaders:

'Did Joe Biden drop out?' Google searches spiked in key states on Election Day

While we're on the subject, here's a rather humorous video about stereotypes of Cybertruck owners  .

[Buck_Mulligan]

I'm with SGR on the tuned out Americans issue. Many may vaguely know about the connection, but it's deep in the recesses of consciousness, and it simply would not occur to them that they could express a political position by their choice of vehicle. And if it did occur to them they'd be more likely than not to dismiss it in favor of their personal preferences.

I spent three Saturday mornings knocking on doors for the D get out the vote operation, knocking on the doors of only registered Ds and was amazed at how many were unaware of early voting that has been around for years.

[Trollheart]

You're probably both right. However, what is not in doubt is that the video SGR posted is fucking hilarious! 

[Lisnaholic]

You're probably both right. However, what is not in doubt is that the video SGR posted is fucking hilarious! 

^ Ditto on that, TH - in fact his whole post is really good, with the paragraph of wild pre-judgements we are inclined to make about people driving "obnoxiously showy vehicles".

Good for you, BM, working to promote dees both big and small: democracy and Democrats. I still find it difficult to comprehend just how disconnected from their politics some people are, which must 've made your efforts dispiriting at times.

And that was a great quote in one of SGR's recent posts: "People don't want to be informed, they want to feel informed." That right there is the motivation behind a zillion conspiracy theories!