Everything Ireland thread

[SGR]

I mean, it does seem like the post is hyping that video up a bit to me.  Certainly unacceptable but still fairly tame in today's climate.  There was just recently a story where some Miami Jew shot at 2 people walking down the street who he believed to be Palestinians. 

Turns out they were Israeli Jews of Mizrahi origin.  They survived the attack and ironically enough attributed the attack to antisemitism, and posted something about "Death to the Arabs" in response. Can we try to imagine for just a second what kind of press that story would have gotten had the shooter actually been Arab or Muslim?

So again,  not justifying it.  But if this kind of shit is the best example they have then it's pretty clear to me the double standard on display.

I heard about that story, very funny, in a sardonic sense. It reminds me of this story a couple years ago. Some woman rams her car into a house used by the Black Hebrew Israelites, believing it to be a Jewish school ("Well, the sign on the lawn said Israelites, it must mean Jewish!"). Needless to say, the Black Hebrew Israelites aren't exactly the biggest fans of Israel or the Jews. 

US woman drives car into antisemitic group's building, mistaking it for Jewish school

We must do what we can to stop both this Semite-on-Semite violence and this Anti-Semite-on-Anti-Semite violence. 

[SGR]

One guy gets spit on and now Ireland is labeled the most antisemitic nation in Europe. 

Trolls is from Ireland and has Hitler in his profile picture.

The Irish like potatoes, Hitler also liked potatoes.

Coincedence?

[Trollheart]

Also, my middle name is Adolf. *
Ireland is certainly a racist country, but I think the condolences to Hitler was more to do with our, at the time, hatred for Britain and the British empire than solidarity with His Naziness.

We did supply a secret port for the U-Boats to refuel during the war though. The enemy of my enemy and all that.


* That's a lie.**
** So is that ++
++ That isn't though.+
+ Or is it?

[Lexi Darling]

Troll Adolf Heart?! I suppose it's always the ones you least suspect.

Wait a minute... S.G.R.: Swastika, German, Reich... it's all coming together...

[SGR]

Troll Adolf Heart?! I suppose it's always the ones you least suspect.

Wait a minute... S.G.R.: Swastika, German, Reich... it's all coming together...

[Trollheart]

Actually it's Hartreich, but my grandfather changed it to Heart when we came from the old country. You know how people are...

[Buck_Mulligan]

Ireland has had a long reputation for that going back to the Second World War, their neutrality, and their President's condolences for Hitler when he died.

I don't agree with your stereotype of the Irish as anti-semitic/Israel.

I'll grant you that Irish neutrality is a joke, (Ireland is militarily, but not politically neutral whatever that means).

I'll grant you that DeValera's condolences on Hitler's death were shameful. DeValera was an arch conservative catholic and Brit hater.

I take issue with the view that the Irish are innately anti-semitic.
I'll grant you that Ireland is likely the most pro-Palestinian country in Europe, but correlation is not causation.
The Irish have a lot of empathy with the Palestinians due in no small measure to their treatment by the British.
The Irish people and government have a lot of disagreement with the Israeli government. That doesn't make them anti-semitic, or even anti-zionist. Israel recently closed its embassy in Dublin.
In general, the Irish largely agree with the characterization offered by jwb of pearl clutching.

[jimmy jazz]

I didn't say that was my thought, just that Ireland has long been accused of it.

Nothing I've said is wrong.

They were neutral during the Second World War.
They did give condolences when Hitler died.
The IRA did collude with the Nazis.

Do I think the Irish people themselves are antisemitic? No. Well not on the whole as of today. The point was that the label has been around a long time, not based off this one incident.

There is even a Wiki page about it:

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Ireland

[Jwb]

Even if that is true, they wouldn't be able to play the game if there weren't people going round spitting at Jews.

Just don't abuse/spit at people because of where they're from or what their ethnicity is.

If you want to take that approach, I'll just say anti semtitic propaganda also wouldn't currently be as easy to make if Israel didn't wrap themselves in the star of David and accuse all of their detractors of antisemitism. They systematically conflate their pet ethnostate with Jewish identity and then act shocked and surprised at the antisemitic backlash. 

But clearly that's not going to change and it doesn't justify antisemitism.  It's also not going to change that some anti Israel activists are going to take things too far.  That doesn't justify all the pearl clutching and weaponized narrativising that comes out of that,  even if it is predictable and even to be expected.

I just happen to think it's more effective to directly point out the rhetorical games that are being played, rather than to justify said game by shifting the emphasis back over to said cringe activists for providing so much easy cannon fodder in the first place.

[Trollheart]

In general, I'd agree that Jews have not made it easy to be liked here. They accuse our president of antisemitism because he dared to call out the Gaza genocide, and it seems like they think that should be allowed to pass without comment, and anyone who does comment on it is automatically anti-semite. That doesn't help. There seems to be no middle ground here with them: it can't be "you abhor the Gaza genocide but you don't hold it against Jews personally, just the murdering state of Israel." No; it's black and white with them. You're literally with us (and that means taking everything that comes with us, including the murder of children and mothers and old people and the bombing of hospitals and schools) or you're agin us. And if you're agin us, then you're antisemitic by definition and/or association. QED.

So on the one hand you have Irish Jews trying to boycott or make a protest against the Holocaust memorial here, and on the other you have them crying when they get attacked. As I say, I don't condone attacks, on any side, at all. But if you keep whining and pointing eventually someone's gonna slap your hand away and say, as we do here, cop the fuck on. You can't have it both ways.

And by the way JJ, while Ireland was certainly neutral in the Second World War (we had just recently become a free state) there were hundreds of thousands of men who joined up to fight. So it wasn't everyone. Plenty of other countries were neutral too, including the Jewish favourite, Switzerland. Just making the point. And if anyone was anti-semite, look no further than the bald fella who liked cigars.

[jimmy jazz]

I know mate, some did fight against the Nazis but they got persecuted and shunned for it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-16287211

[Trollheart]

Oh they did. Well to us that was like Jews fighting for the Nazis. Although we said it wasn't our war, I've seen programmes that show where Hitler was drawing up list of Jews and other undesirables in Ireland - think it might have been 30,000 or something? Not sure. The fact is, had Britain fallen, we were next, so really we were just cutting our nose off to spite our face. Hitler had no intention of sparing us, or of saying well they helped us before we invaded them. Look at what he did with Russia. And Ireland is the westernmost point if you want to launch any sort of attack at the USA, or provide a defence against one from them. We were very short-sighted, but 800 years of occupation, near-extermination and oppression will do that to ya.

[Buck_Mulligan]

I didn't say that was my thought, just that Ireland has long been accused of it.

Nothing I've said is wrong.

They were neutral during the Second World War.
They did give condolences when Hitler died.
The IRA did collude with the Nazis.

Do I think the Irish people themselves are antisemitic? No. Well not on the whole as of today. The point was that the label has been around a long time, not based off this one incident.

There is even a Wiki page about it:

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Ireland

In response to DJC's post you said Ireland had a long history of "that" (antisemitism), going back to WWII.
I think you'll find some anti-semitism in just about every country where there are Jews. Check Wiki.

Believe it or not, Wiki even has a page about antisemitism in the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom

[jimmy jazz]

In response to DJC's post you said Ireland had a long history of "that" (antisemitism), going back to WWII.
I think you'll find some anti-semitism in just about every country where there are Jews. Check Wiki.

Believe it or not, Wiki even has a page about antisemitism in the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom

I said long history of being labeled antisemitic.

Well yes. But Ireland has been particularly accused of it because of their actions in the Second World War, support for Hitler and collusion with Nazis, not solely because of this spitting incident.

That's all I'm saying.

[Trollheart]

I will say this sentence makes extremely light of our occupation  under England since the 13th century!

Throughout the 1930s and 1940s, pro-Nazi sentiment was common among the Irish due to their dislike of the United Kingdom,[8] which was fighting Nazi Germany.[8]

Dislike? Fucking DISLIKE? Yeah, the same way the Nazis disliked the Jews! Jesus on a train to Auschwitz!  You'd think from reading that, that we had our differences with the English but it was nothing much, all friends now, water under the bridge! I mean, sure, the Catholic Church is well known for being cunts to the Jews, but that doesn't mean every Irish person is an anti-semite. As Buck says, go deep enough and you'll uncover antisemitism in every country, bar I suppose Israel.

I also asked, but didn't get an answer: were those two in the incident Irish citizens?