Something Completely Different

Media section => Games => Topic started by: jimmy jazz on May 12, 2023, 06:33 PM

Title: Zelda
Post by: jimmy jazz on May 12, 2023, 06:33 PM
Specifically Tears of the Kingdom.

Anyone got it yet? Thoughts?

This and Breath of the Wild look like masterpieces but I haven't played any of them because I'm not buying a Switch just for two games.

How good are they?

@Key @Mrs. Waffles @Guybrush
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Lexi Darling on May 12, 2023, 09:11 PM
I played BOTW when it came out, but it was pretty daunting for someone like me who is both intimidated by open worlds and gets a bit neurotic with breakable weapons and limited inventories. The old Zeldas felt so much safer, haha. But I guess that is the point this time around.

Anyway, around early 2018 I had a big bonding experience watching Mr. Waffles play through the whole game over a few months (we didn't live together at the time so it took a while, haha). It's a beautiful game, but I'm still really a bit out of my comfort zone in open world games. So I guess it depends on how much you're into exploration-heavy games where you can free roam and do anything.

My sentimental favorite Zelda is actually Link's Awakening, which I first played back in 1995 when I got my first Game Boy for Christmas. They did a remake version of it for the Switch, so if you're into 2D Zelda it's an absolute gem worth picking up if you do get one.

As far as I know the mister is holding off on the new one for now, we've got a budget to stick to at the moment. But I'll let you know what he and I think of it when we get around to it!
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: jimmy jazz on May 12, 2023, 11:35 PM
GTA is open world and obviously I like that but I do like storylines and jobs. I played Wind Waker on the Gamecube and loved it but never finished it.

This new Zelda has absolutely shit hot reviews.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 12, 2023, 11:36 PM
Breath of the Wild, in my personal opinion, is massively overrated. Boring, empty-ish open-world. Weapons constantly breaking. Low variety of enemies (from what I remember, Ocarina of Time had twice the number of unique enemies as this big open-world Zelda has). No traditional Zelda dungeons (replaced instead by 'Shrines' which all mostly look the same and involve various different puzzles in a pretty enclosed area). And the boss fights are lacking in quantity, design, or uniqueness. Unlike some open world games, I just don't feel much incentive to explore. It's not like Fallout 3 where you'd discover vastly different locations with interesting characters and rewarding sidequest. It's not like The Witcher 3 where it brings along some incredibly interesting and heartwrending subplots. It's not like Elden Ring where you get incredible spells or weapons (I mean, sometimes you do get weapons, but they're temporary since they're breakable). Unless you get enjoyment purely out of wandering around and exploring to test the limits of the game, I'd personally pin Breath of the Wild's exploration as drab and unintersting.

I can't speak for Tears of the Kingdom, haven't played it. But from what I've seen, it looks mostly like BotW with maybe the addition of traditional dungeons. And Breath of the Wild got a similarly fervent critical response. If you want to play a great open world game, play Elden Ring. It has everything that triggers dopamine hits for me that Breath of the Wild doesn't. I feel that sometimes Nintendo games get treated with kid gloves by critics.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 12, 2023, 11:41 PM
My 3D Zelda Ranking would probably be as follows:

1. Ocarina of Time
2. Majora's Mask
3. Twilight Princess
4. Wind Waker (another overrated one - the thing I hate about this one is how boring it can be to need to travel between islands with that same damn music track playing over and over - and I despise that right before you reach Ganon to beat the game, you need to go on a massive annoying fetch quest for triforce shards)
5. Skyward Sword
6. Breath of the Wild
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: jimmy jazz on May 12, 2023, 11:43 PM
I've got OOT on my laptop but haven't played it cos the graphics are 90s standard.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: jimmy jazz on May 12, 2023, 11:45 PM
I have just seen you can get remastered versions of OOT and MM, but it's on Nintendo DS. Why don't Nintendo just put them on Steam or make a way to play it on TV? I don't want to play in some shit tiny screen!
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 12, 2023, 11:52 PM
This isn't a jab at you or anything, but I know you're older than me and I find it funny that you're hung up on the graphics of the game. And I grew up with the game.  :laughing: To be fair, I do find it hard to go back farther than the games I grew up with, due to how ugly many of them look - but I'm talking NES and Atari and games of that age. But when I boot up the original Resident Evil on PS1, I feel right at home.

Personally, I'd suggest you give the original Ocarina of Time a chance on emulation. Its graphics may be a bit outdated, but the critical praise it's received over the years is very well deserved in my eyes. It's the game that captured my imagination as a kid and made me fall in love with the series. It's still a world that you can get lost in - a world that is completely absorbing. And it doesn't have all that busy-work bullshit that so many open world games have. The dungeons are top tier in design, the sound effects and design are amazing, the enemies/bosses/and characters are absolutely charming - and the overall experience of it is utterly top-shelf. There's hardly a wasted minute in the entire game.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: jimmy jazz on May 12, 2023, 11:55 PM
No jabs taken, I will get round to it. I've never heard a bad thing said about the game. Everyone I know loves it so I imagine it is immense.

Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 12, 2023, 11:59 PM
There's probably things you could conceivably criticize it for - but it does so many things right, that I can't even remember a bad thing about it. Well...then again, there is the obtuse design of the Water Temple. When I was a kid, I needed to enlist the aid of an older brother of a friend of mine to figure out what to do. An adult should probably be able to figure it out though. The plus to playing that instead of BotW is that you'd get to hear the completely kickass soundtrack that to my ears is miles ahead of the rather yawn-inducing floral ambiance that pervades most of BotW's soundtrack.



The Mario game that was Ocarina of Time's N64 counterpart, Mario 64, has aged MUCH more poorly in comparison due to it's completely wonky ass camera and the fact that it's a platforming game that is much more reliant on perfectly timed jumps and maneuvers.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Lexi Darling on May 13, 2023, 12:03 AM
Oh man the Water Temple, I first got to that part when I was 10 and I got stuck and didn't end up beating the game until I was like 13.

The Forest Temple music is my favorite OOT track, so haunting but kind of beautiful in its own way.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 13, 2023, 12:15 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on May 13, 2023, 12:03 AMOh man the Water Temple, I first got to that part when I was 10 and I got stuck and didn't end up beating the game until I was like 13.

The Forest Temple music is my favorite OOT track, so haunting but kind of beautiful in its own way.

Oh damn wow - yeah, I didn't have the patience for the Water Temple - I'm real glad I had someone who already did it to help me through it. It wasn't like I had easy access to the internet back then to figure it out myself either. Way different from today when you can look anything up instantly.

But yeah, the music in the game slaps the entire way through.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: DJChameleon on May 13, 2023, 04:17 PM
Quote from: SGR on May 12, 2023, 11:41 PMMy 3D Zelda Ranking would probably be as follows:

1. Ocarina of Time
2. Majora's Mask
3. Twilight Princess
4. Wind Waker (another overrated one - the thing I hate about this one is how boring it can be to need to travel between islands with that same damn music track playing over and over - and I despise that right before you reach Ganon to beat the game, you need to go on a massive annoying fetch quest for triforce shards)
5. Skyward Sword
6. Breath of the Wild

SGR with the wild hot takes. Sir! There is no way in hell that Breath of the Wild should be ranked 6. Toss Twilight Princess down there. I was bored to tears with Wind Waker and never completed it. I didn't touch Skyward Sword and I refuse to waste time with Twilight Princess.

Breathe of the Wild is a system seller. Well it was for me. I bought the launch edition of the Switch along with Breathe of the Wild. It took some getting used to with the breakable/crafting weapons thing but after that it was a breeze. The one downside that was missing was the classic dungeons but they made up for it slightly with all those mini temple things I forgot their official name. Also the boss battles were insanely large in scope and took some interesting mechanics to get down pact. I can't wait to jump into Tears of the Kindgom. I love that they start you off up in the sky and you explore a bit before heading back down to the map that is supposed to be similar to BoTW but with some changes. I think there might be dungeons added but can't confirm yet. I even bought a special edition Zelda Switch just for TotK. If you like open world games you'll definitely like BoTW it's worth getting a Switch for even if you don't want to throw money for the full priced switch you can get a Switch Lite but idk it's a tinier screen.

Also didn't take you for a graphics over gameplay person. It seems to be younger generations that are mainly focused on that. I'm more into gameplay/plot than I am with graphics especially if you grew up on 8 bit games. Aren't you older JJ? Who were you on MB btw? I'm sort of curious. If you don't want to post that info in public just DM me.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 13, 2023, 04:45 PM
Quote from: DJChameleon on May 13, 2023, 04:17 PMSGR with the wild hot takes. Sir! There is no way in hell that Breath of the Wild should be ranked 6. Toss Twilight Princess down there. I was bored to tears with Wind Waker and never completed it. I didn't touch Skyward Sword and I refuse to waste time with Twilight Princess.

Breathe of the Wild is a system seller. Well it was for me. I bought the launch edition of the Switch along with Breathe of the Wild. It took some getting used to with the breakable/crafting weapons thing but after that it was a breeze. The one downside that was missing was the classic dungeons but they made up for it slightly with all those mini temple things I forgot their official name. Also the boss battles were insanely large in scope and took some interesting mechanics to get down pact. I can't wait to jump into Tears of the Kindgom. I love that they start you off up in the sky and you explore a bit before heading back down to the map that is supposed to be similar to BoTW but with some changes. I think there might be dungeons added but can't confirm yet. I even bought a special edition Zelda Switch just for TotK. If you like open world games you'll definitely like BoTW it's worth getting a Switch for even if you don't want to throw money for the full priced switch you can get a Switch Lite but idk it's a tinier screen.

Also didn't take you for a graphics over gameplay person. It seems to be younger generations that are mainly focused on that. I'm more into gameplay/plot than I am with graphics especially if you grew up on 8 bit games. Aren't you older JJ? Who were you on MB btw? I'm sort of curious. If you don't want to post that info in public just DM me.

Totally fair. I recognize that my opinion on it is the outlier. Most people love Breath of the Wild - I just don't. It doesn't satisfy the itch for me that other Zelda games do. The other things it tries to achieve are done better in other games (at least for me).

Kind of curious why you don't like Twilight Princess - it's a great game in my eyes. The only criticisms I could really levy against it are that the graphics and art style are kind of monotone - a lot of dull, dreary, dark and grey (doesn't have the visual/color variety of something like OoT or MM or even BotW) and that the beginning section of the game is WAY too long.

Agreed with you though that in most cases, graphics are the least of my concerns with games. The game, first and foremost, needs to be fun to play.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Guybrush on May 13, 2023, 07:12 PM
Quote from: jimmy jazz on May 12, 2023, 11:35 PMGTA is open world and obviously I like that but I do like storylines and jobs. I played Wind Waker on the Gamecube and loved it but never finished it.

This new Zelda has absolutely shit hot reviews.

Wind Waker is actually the last Zelda game I played (and finished). I generally like Nintendo games, but haven't owned a Nintendo console since my SNES.

Like you said, Im not buying a Nintendo for one or two titles I'd like to play 🙂

A Link to the Past (for SNES) is my favorite, but then I haven't even played the latest ones.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Queen Boo on May 17, 2023, 11:46 PM
I've always been a staunch defender of Wind Waker, it's honestly my favorite 3D Zelda of the pre-BOTW era, it was the first real attempt at an open world 3D Zelda game and while the limitations of the hardware and the rushed development prevented it from reaching it's full potential it still perfectly captured that spirit of adventure and exploration that makes Zelda great, personally I always loved the sailing and didn't care that there was more water than land, when you did find an island it just made it feel that much more special. Also it has the best overworld music in the series let's be real.

Twilight Princess is good but I never got far into it before moving onto other Wii titles, I do plan to revisit it but next time it will be the Gamecube version instead, I think it would be a lot less frustrating for me than the Wii version was. I still need to give Skyward Sword a spin.

Honestly I've never played a Zelda game I outright didn't like, but if I had to pick a least favorite it would be Spirit Tracks, I haven't played Phantom Hourglass but apparently it has a lot of the same issues I had with Spirit Tracks, such as an overreliance on awkward stylus controls and having to follow a set path instead of being able to explore the world freely. It's a shame those two are the only real follow ups Wind Waker had, I'd love to see a true sequel that fully achieves what the developers had originally envisioned.

For a long time I've prefered 2D Zelda to 3D Zelda but with 3D Zelda now being more open than ever my opinion is starting to change, BOTW was the first 3D Zelda game that truly kept me engaged all the way to the end.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 18, 2023, 01:22 AM
Quote from: Queen Boo on May 17, 2023, 11:46 PMI've always been a staunch defender of Wind Waker, it's honestly my favorite 3D Zelda of the pre-BOTW era, it was the first real attempt at an open world 3D Zelda game and while the limitations of the hardware and the rushed development prevented it from reaching it's full potential it still perfectly captured that spirit of adventure and exploration that makes Zelda great, personally I always loved the sailing and didn't care that there was more water than land, when you did find an island it just made it feel that much more special. Also it has the best overworld music in the series let's be real.

Twilight Princess is good but I never got far into it before moving onto other Wii titles, I do plan to revisit it but next time it will be the Gamecube version instead, I think it would be a lot less frustrating for me than the Wii version was. I still need to give Skyward Sword a spin.

Honestly I've never played a Zelda game I outright didn't like, but if I had to pick a least favorite it would be Spirit Tracks, I haven't played Phantom Hourglass but apparently it has a lot of the same issues I had with Spirit Tracks, such as an overreliance on awkward stylus controls and having to follow a set path instead of being able to explore the world freely. It's a shame those two are the only real follow ups Wind Waker had, I'd love to see a true sequel that fully achieves what the developers had originally envisioned.

For a long time I've prefered 2D Zelda to 3D Zelda but with 3D Zelda now being more open than ever my opinion is starting to change, BOTW was the first 3D Zelda game that truly kept me engaged all the way to the end.

I'm curious, what were the points in OoT or MM that you started to disengage? I had the complete opposite experience with BOTW. The world felt empty to me, the progression felt artificial, and I never felt 'propelled' forward like I did in other Zelda games. But granted, exploring for the sake of it in games is not my thing. I've always felt more engaged with more linear and crafted experiences.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Queen Boo on May 18, 2023, 03:04 AM
It was the water temple that stumped me in OOT so it basically became a fishing game to me after that, though I did eventually beat it when I gave the game another go, though I still haven't beaten the game. I do plan to do that the next time I play it.

I actually haven't played Majora's Mask much because I didn't have the N64 version and I only played a bit of the GameCube port from the Collector's Edition, I actually really enjoyed what little I played of it I just ended up getting distracted by something else and never returned to it, I'm bad about that sometimes.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Lexi Darling on May 18, 2023, 03:25 AM
Quote from: Queen Boo on May 18, 2023, 03:04 AMIt was the water temple that stumped me in OOT so it basically became a fishing game to me after that, though I did eventually beat it when I gave the game another go, though I still haven't beaten the game. I do plan to do that the next time I play it.

Yeah I had the same experience, I got OOT for Christmas in 1999, got stumped by the Water Temple and didn't touch the game for a couple years. I also played Majora's Mask on release week and the time travel messed with my 11 year old brain so much that I didn't end up beating that game until around 2008 when I was 19.

Link's Awakening will always be my favorite though. I still remember Christmas 1995 when I got my first Game Boy with that game and Mario Land 2. I have photos of that with 6 year old me wearing Magic School Bus pajamas sitting under the silver metallic Christmas tree we had that year. Remember those? Shit now I just miss the 90s.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Guybrush on May 18, 2023, 07:54 AM
I love Link's Awakening as well. I've finished it twice. The first time, I had borrowed a mate's Gameboy to play it. My parents had rented a very basic cabin in the mountains in Easter to go skiing. So it was skiing in the day, but at night I was playing through Link's Awakening in the bunk bed and having a blast.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: DJChameleon on May 20, 2023, 10:37 AM
I'm guess I'm the only person that loved buying strategy guides. I did it for OoT and MM. I can't relate to the Water Temple being a sore issue because of that fact.

Strategy guides were my life back then.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 22, 2023, 02:41 PM
Quote from: DJChameleon on May 20, 2023, 10:37 AMI'm guess I'm the only person that loved buying strategy guides. I did it for OoT and MM. I can't relate to the Water Temple being a sore issue because of that fact.

Strategy guides were my life back then.

I bought strategy guides for certain games. With the proliferation of the internet, they're hardly made any more as anything but collector's items/novelties - but almost every game that was popular used to get one issued for them.

The problem when it came to OoT and MM for me was that I didn't have them on N64 and play them in their hey-day. I played them on a Zelda Collection disk on the Gamecube that contained multiple Zelda games. And there wasn't a strategy guide made for that one. Certainly would've helped though.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: DJChameleon on May 22, 2023, 04:13 PM
Quote from: SGR on May 22, 2023, 02:41 PMI bought strategy guides for certain games. With the proliferation of the internet, they're hardly made any more as anything but collector's items/novelties - but almost every game that was popular used to get one issued for them.

The problem when it came to OoT and MM for me was that I didn't have them on N64 and play them in their hey-day. I played them on a Zelda Collection disk on the Gamecube that contained multiple Zelda games. And there wasn't a strategy guide made for that one. Certainly would've helped though.
oh okay yeah I played both when they first came out on N64. I still have my N64 copy of OoT it's the golden special edition cartridge. I wish I had the box would be worth money I bet.

Anyone remember Game Genie and looking up codes to use with it?
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 22, 2023, 04:35 PM
Quote from: DJChameleon on May 22, 2023, 04:13 PMoh okay yeah I played both when they first came out on N64. I still have my N64 copy of OoT it's the golden special edition cartridge. I wish I had the box would be worth money I bet.

Anyone remember Game Genie and looking up codes to use with it?

I don't think I ever met anyone with a Game Genie, but as a kid, I was acutely aware of Game Shark which served the same purpose. I never owned one as a kid, but I knew some other kids who did. Back then, (probably still happens now) teachers and school admins would ban anything that was fun (Beyblades, Yu-gi-oh, MTG, etc). So whereas we used to bring that physical link cable to trade pokemon between our Gameboy Cartridges during recess openly, after it got banned, we'd continue to do it, but we'd have to do it under the slide/jungle gym (away from the prying eyes of the recess monitor) like we were doing a drug deal.

Bit of a tangent aside, if you had a Game Shark back then, you were essentially the coolest kid during recess.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Queen Boo on May 23, 2023, 04:30 PM
I had a Game Genie for the Genesis, I used it for things like making Sonic jump higher in Sonic 1.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 23, 2023, 05:09 PM
Beyond using Game Sharks/Game Genies, I miss the pre-baked cheat codes in games in general. Seems like new games never have that. Was it all just to sell us cheat code books as kids?
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Guybrush on May 23, 2023, 08:24 PM
It's handy for game testing I guess and kinda cool to leave in. Who doesn't remember iddqd from Doom?
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Queen Boo on May 23, 2023, 09:00 PM
Quote from: SGR on May 23, 2023, 05:09 PMBeyond using Game Sharks/Game Genies, I miss the pre-baked cheat codes in games in general. Seems like new games never have that. Was it all just to sell us cheat code books as kids?

I think there are two big reasons cheats died out.

1. Achievements and trophies.
2. The rise of online and competitive gaming.

But boy do I miss them, cheats were the shit, especially during the N64 era.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 23, 2023, 10:10 PM
Quote from: Queen Boo on May 23, 2023, 09:00 PMI think there are two big reasons cheats died out.

1. Achievements and trophies.
2. The rise of online and competitive gaming.

But boy do I miss them, cheats were the shit, especially during the N64 era.

I can see the first but not quite the latter. Devs would just need to design it such that the cheat codes aren't usable in online spaces, and only in single player modes. The achievements and trophies thing makes sense (and I do like achievements and trophies). I've seen some games (GTA might be one of them) that tells you that using cheat codes will void the trophy. But I'm guessing some devs are just too lazy to be bothered coding that in, so the cheat codes just get dropped entirely.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Guybrush on May 24, 2023, 12:42 AM
I also like the consoles, like in Bethesda games where you can do so much if you just look up the various console commands.

As a rule, I don't cheat, but as an even bigger rule it's about getting enjoyment out of a game. Sometimes, cheats can help with that.

I'm not a PC gamer these days, but I have fiddled around with cheat engine back in the day. That can be fun.
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: SGR on May 24, 2023, 03:36 AM
As a Playstation owner who doesn't play on Windows (I only own Macs), gotta say, I'm kinda pissed that Microsoft acquired Bethesda. I love Fallout and Elder Scrolls. Oh well.  :(
Title: Re: Zelda
Post by: Guybrush on May 26, 2023, 12:10 AM
Quote from: SGR on May 24, 2023, 03:36 AMAs a Playstation owner who doesn't play on Windows (I only own Macs), gotta say, I'm kinda pissed that Microsoft acquired Bethesda. I love Fallout and Elder Scrolls. Oh well.  :(

Microsoft does release games for Playstation, though, so you might still get them.

Sony's much worse with the exclusives than Microsoft is. That's my impression at least.