Something Completely Different

Hey there, gang!

So we've been discussing a bit about what goes and what doesn't in terms of behaviour and posting. During those discussions, a suggestion has come up that maybe we should have a less moderated forum for controversial content.

• It could have an appropriately trashy, spooky or explanatory name
• It could be opt-in, meaning it would be invisible to regular users until they opt into the membergroup able to see it
• It would be less moderated, although we of course can't allow illegal content, death threats and the like

This time, we'd like to be democratic and put it to the vote, but we ask that you read our short appeals first - one for and one against.

Trollheart's appeal FOR goes as follows:

Quote from: TrollheartTrollheart's appeal FOR the creation of a less moderated forum

Ok well here's my proposal: do as I say or I'll kill you. All of you!  :laughing:

Seriously, in order to not alienate those who have a more, shall we say, outspoken view on matters which might be considered controversial and might be seen by others to be skewing the forum in one direction or another (right?) :laughing:  I propose we create a special, hidden, secret sub-forum where such things can be discussed. Only those who wished to read/participate in such discussions would be able to - nobody else would even see them, other than admin staff like us. This sub-forum would be not unpoliced but let, to some extent, run itself with little real interference from us, as the idea would be that anyone who is there wants to be there, and, further, is aware of what they're getting into.

Members could choose to opt-in or out as they wished: all they need do if they're in and have had enough and want out is to message one of us, and their membership could be changed accordingly. Same with anyone who wants in. The initial announcement thread would invite those who wish to be part of it to let us know, and they would be "badged" accordingly.

Anyone posting in this new sub-forum MUST agree NOT to post any controversial stuff outside of the sub-forum: if they do, it can just be moved of course, but the idea would be for us not to have to do that, for any of those type of threads to be put there by those who make them. Overall, such threads should not be referred to outside of the sub-forum, unless vaguely, and an invitation to join the sub-forum extended if anyone wishes to read.

I feel this would remove the anxiety and annoyance other members have about the forum going in a particular direction, would take away threads they would rather not see, and keep the main forum relatively peaceful and harmonious, while still allowing those who wish to, to express themselves without feeling that their, if you will, first amendment rights have been curtailed.

That's my proposal anyway.
(https://y.yarn.co/bee24c3e-0df6-425d-aef2-0503d2d25451_text.gif)

Guybrush's appeal AGAINST goes as follows:

Quote from: Guybrush'sGuybrush's appeal AGAINST the creation of a less moderated forum

My wish would be that most controversial topics could be discussed anywhere. Generally, I'm not worried about subjects - only how they're discussed. As long as we can discuss something peacefully, I'd think The Lounge or other forums would be appropriate.

Hence, a less moderated forum, for me, wouldn't be necessary for certain topics, only for certain behaviours. Those behaviours might be fighting, offending others, shitposting, etc. In other words, behaviours I myself see little value in. I would worry mainly about these things:

• That beefs generated in the less moderated forum spill over into other forums
• That behaviour in the less moderated forum is allowed to influence the standard / bleed over into the other forums
• That the less moderated forum is going to be a bitch to moderate
• That it's going to become a stain and a cesspool of awfulness

I'll concede these are just worries and I don't know how it would go. However, we have a place for controversial topics (regular forums), just not controversial behaviours (which is fine with me) and so I'd suggest nay.

Vote away!

PS! If your vote should sway due to the discussion below, you can change it.

Yes as long as there is fairness and consistency. No harassment of users etc.

Quote from: jimmy jazz on Mar 07, 2023, 09:16 PMYes as long as there is fairness and consistency. No harassment of users etc.

Isn't this just the regular forums? :laughing:

It'd be fairness in terms of equal opportunity to harass, maybe. Perhaps Trollheart should chime in, but I don't think we'd generally moderate insults much in this special forum.

Fair enough, I was just assuming any topic could be discussed, like the race thread earlier.

I think the whole point is to allow those sort of threads, but more between people who are interested and are ok with it. Natch, we wouldn't allow hate speech or that kind of thing, people calling each other pedos or whatever, but the general dismay at some of the threads being started would be kind of regulated by being in the secret, invisible forum. That's how I'd see it. You could do what you like (to a point) and be left to your own devices. Mind you, anyone looking for mod assistance would get it; we wouldn't be cutting the members of the sub-forum loose or anything, as I understand it.

To me the troll basement option sounds like a lot of extra work and extra headaches for a forum that doesn't have very many active members.

this idea never works unless you let it go completely unmoderated

it'll just be the same thing - if it offends trolls or guy it'll be censored

there's never been any mod in the history of forums who let things he didn't like fly and yall wouldn't either

I've been on a forum before where mods let most things slide. Was very difficult to get a ban on there. The one thing they were strict on was illegally downloading music. If you asked for or posted music and it wasn't a legal link to buy or a free download then you were gone.

Perhaps we could trial the new forum for a month and see how it goes? First thread could be the one Dreams posted, just move it into the new forum. Anyone got any ideas for names?

the oh no somebody quoted chatgpt omg 😱 forum

It can work. At my writing forum, we had a policy of having non-political threads but there were always some that would get political anyway. After Trump got elected it was decided that we couldn't allow for a public forum to be a cesspool for the inevitable personal attacks, so the powers that be decided to start a secret forum that anyone could join with the caveat that what was said in the secret forum stayed in the secret forum. It worked out quite well in the end. The extremist crowd had their playground and the rest of us could talk about writing. Why can't we do that here as well?

Part of my confusion is I'm currently unsure of when a thread would belong in that forum. I do get that people can't stop discussing wokeness and racism and maybe that's to be tossed in there (?), but what about a thread on school shootings or circumcision. Discussions on topics like that might occasionally hurt someone, but they could also be healthy and worthwhile. I'd be a little hesitant to throw them into the cesspool, if you know what I mean, and would prefer an environment where we can discuss whatever topic peacefully.

Do we want a forum for certain topics? Or should it be for certain behaviours? Because if it's topics, it might be a little hard to figure out where the line between this forum and other forums go in terms of appropriate topics.

It would be for topics that would be vulnerable to certain behaviors, like the wokeness thread for example. Sure, ultimately, it would be a judgement call, but some subjects are quite likely to spur overly spirited debate. I guess we would start there first.

maybe people could just quit being hypersensitive trigger warning babies

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 02:25 AMmaybe people could just quit being hypersensitive trigger warning babies

Oh the irony. :laughing:

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 08, 2023, 02:32 AM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 02:25 AMmaybe people could just quit being hypersensitive trigger warning babies

Oh the irony. :laughing:

youre like the little kid i had to teach ti stop snitching- every thread you cry about

and then you won't interact with me on the sun ra thread and so on

really you are the worst of your generation

you never had an original thought ever

i seriously legit dislike you

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 02:45 AM

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 08, 2023, 02:32 AM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 02:25 AMmaybe people could just quit being hypersensitive trigger warning babies

Oh the irony. :laughing:

youre like the little kid i had to teach ti stop snitching- every thread you cry about

and then you won't interact with me on the sun ra thread and so on

really you are the worst of your generation

you never had an original thought ever

i seriously legit dislike you

Thanks for sharing. I'm pretty sure we're from the same generation.

What Sun Ra thread are you talking about?

Ok guys, take it to the controversial sub f...uck. Um. Well. This is why we need it. Maybe.
:shycouch:

your. vinyl thread

i try to be supportive but your still having a breakdown from the woke thread so you ignore everything i say about music

cause you're like that - dishonest af

pretending to be the good guy when you use every tool of manipulation to get your way

"i don't think this thread supports friendly conversation" because it doesn't say exactly what you were told to believe

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 08, 2023, 02:51 AMOk guys, take it to the controversial sub f...uck. Um. Well. This is why we need it. Maybe.
:shycouch:

y'all should just take things as they are instead of letting the pc patrol play teacher's pet

Or y'all should try to work with us to retain your free speech instead of all your threads being closed and moved to the graveyard.

(https://comb.io/uZbVwK.gif)

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 02:54 AMyour. vinyl thread

i try to be supportive but your still having a breakdown from the woke thread so you ignore everything i say about music

cause you're like that - dishonest af

pretending to be the good guy when you use every tool of manipulation to get your way

"i don't think this thread supports friendly conversation" because it doesn't say exactly what you were told to believe

Sorry you think it's somehow dishonest that I don't think racist threads support friendly conversation, but I truly don't think they do. I'm here because I'd love to have casual conversations about music, movies, books, whatever. A deluge of bigoted rage threads dominating the discussion here is kind of a drag to be honest. It doesn't make me want to be here and I suspect that it's repelling other people as well. If this forum intends to grow, I think it would be in its best interest to have less angry, hateful content.

i never made one bigoted thread

that's your lie

your constant incessant lie

if you don't want to be here leave

i've never been anything but civil but you start name calling and object to anything that doesn't fit perfectly in your little safety bubble

thread after thread you accuse me of hate or bigotry

but i'm sure the truth is you never did a thing to fight injustice or challenge the status quo

i know your cowardly type

you don't have an iota of revolutionary spirit

we'd still be stuck in the 80's if your type who cannot stand anything not entirely within their safety bubble

i know you didn't fight for queer rights early on

i know you never confronted the police

i know how your type is

Well if it makes anyone feel better, I haven't been offended so far.

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 04:01 AMi never made one bigoted thread

that's your lie

your constant incessant lie

if you don't want to be here leave

i've never been anything but civil but you start name calling and object to anything that doesn't fit perfectly in your little safety bubble

thread after thread you accuse me of hate or bigotry

but i'm sure the truth is you never did a thing to fight injustice or challenge the status quo

i know your cowardly type

you don't have an iota of revolutionary spirit

we'd still be stuck in the 80's if your type who cannot stand anything not entirely within their safety bubble

i know you didn't fight for queer rights early on

i know you never confronted the police

i know how your type is

Good grief buddy, what on earth are you talking about? I am queer. I protested against prop 8 in California. I also confronted police in Chicago while protesting the invasion of Iraq. So give me a big high five for meeting your criteria for people who are allowed to to disagree with you I guess.

Your anti-trans "cis is a slur" thread was bigoted, your anti-woke thread was bigoted, and your eugenics-adjacent thread from last night was bigoted. Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but that's how those threads come off.

Quoteeugenics-adjacent

unbelievable- being queer doesn't mean you fault for anything

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 05:20 AM

Quoteeugenics-adjacent

unbelievable- being queer doesn't mean you fault for anything

What are you even trying to say here?

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 08, 2023, 05:22 AM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 05:20 AM

Quoteeugenics-adjacent

unbelievable- being queer doesn't mean you fault for anything

What are you even trying to say here?

how can you not understand that being queer doesn't mean you fault for anything

and eugenics adjacent

really your inability to think is incredible

like i don't even think you like sun ra

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 05:27 AM

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 08, 2023, 05:22 AM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 05:20 AM

Quoteeugenics-adjacent

unbelievable- being queer doesn't mean you fault for anything

What are you even trying to say here?

how can you not understand that being queer doesn't mean you fault for anything

Still not sure what this is supposed mean.

I think it sounds like a good idea :)

Can all members please be reminded we will not allow personal attacks, either public or in private (if reported) against another? Please calm the fuck down. Thanks.

OH, like I wrote in the ChatGPT thread when I shut it down, sensitive topics should be treated a little more delicately.

My appeal to anyone would be that if you want to discuss something controversial and only have the best intentions as to why, just please make those intentions clear right up top. If you only provide something shocking and a smiley, it's not enough. If people then misunderstand or get an angle to attack, it's likely to cause a mess and it's also likely to derail the conversation you actually wanted to have.

I would like to spend my time here doing something else than put out fires and clean up after the mess that woke and racism discussions leave in an increasing amount of threads. I'm kinda hoping that it's just a phase and when these topics are out of everyone's system, perhaps activity would shift into more benign things like music and movies discussions. I'd like that and am fairly sure Trollheart feels the same.

Either way, we could discuss controversial topics if we just approach them with a bit more care. I'm sure that would significantly reduce the amount of conflict that goes on here.

When it comes to starting uber controversial topic threads that'll make people mad, my body says yes...but my heart says no.  :laughing:

Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 08, 2023, 03:36 PMOH, like I wrote in the ChatGPT thread when I shut it down, sensitive topics should be treated a little more delicately.

My appeal to anyone would be that if you want to discuss something controversial and only have the best intentions as to why, just please make those intentions clear right up top. If you only provide something shocking and a smiley, it's not enough. If people then misunderstand or get an angle to attack, it's likely to cause a mess and it's also likely to derail the conversation you actually wanted to have.

I would like to spend my time here doing something else than put out fires and clean up after the mess that woke and racism discussions leave in an increasing amount of threads. I'm kinda hoping that it's just a phase and when these topics are out of everyone's system, perhaps activity would shift into more benign things like music and movies discussions. I'd like that and am fairly sure Trollheart feels the same.

Either way, we could discuss controversial topics if we just approach them with a bit more care. I'm sure that would significantly reduce the amount of conflict that goes on here.

I concur. IMO The discussions of politics and social issues are not the problem in and of themselves, but it requires being polite and genuine in our desire to understand others' points of view rather than posting in bad faith.

I struggle with my own impulses to call people out, make no mistake. But at the end of the day I try my best to understand others' viewpoints and not dismiss them, and I implore everyone to do the same. And by the same token, please be genuine. I'm not going to debate someone whose mind is clearly already made up and comes at me with bad faith or inflammatory posts.

I'm not talking about anyone in particular, I'm talking about all of us, myself included. I think we need to work together to make this place a civil discussion forum. Just my take on the whole thing.

Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 08, 2023, 03:36 PMOH, like I wrote in the ChatGPT thread when I shut it down, sensitive topics should be treated a little more delicately.

My appeal to anyone would be that if you want to discuss something controversial and only have the best intentions as to why, just please make those intentions clear right up top. If you only provide something shocking and a smiley, it's not enough. If people then misunderstand or get an angle to attack, it's likely to cause a mess and it's also likely to derail the conversation you actually wanted to have.

I would like to spend my time here doing something else than put out fires and clean up after the mess that woke and racism discussions leave in an increasing amount of threads. I'm kinda hoping that it's just a phase and when these topics are out of everyone's system, perhaps activity would shift into more benign things like music and movies discussions. I'd like that and am fairly sure Trollheart feels the same.

Either way, we could discuss controversial topics if we just approach them with a bit more care. I'm sure that would significantly reduce the amount of conflict that goes on here.

maybe people could use care instead intentionally and disingenuously casting me in the worst possible light and then being rewarded for it because surprise surprise mods are easy to manipulate

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 04:00 PMmaybe people could use care instead intentionally and disingenuously casting me in the worst possible light and then being rewarded for it because surprise surprise mods are easy to manipulate

Even I was offended by the first post in the ChatGPT thread and I promise you that doesn't happen often. I had to think about what your intentions could possibly be for posting it and had to read more in order to make sense of it. I was able to do that, but why wouldn't you just make it obvious that it wasn't a racist stab? Are you gonna make me have to work in order to figure out if you're racist or not? Just make it easier, please.

A bull in a china shop will make a mess even if it doesn't intend to. If you can help it, don't make a mess.

OH,  you may or may not be unaware of it, but there are people here who actually like you. But you make it hard to do that when you keep posting what seem to be deliberately inflammatory posts that you know people will rise to. If you could just channel your energies elsewhere maybe you wouldn't feel the need to do this. Are we likely to see Lamplighter surface here by any chance? I used to enjoy reading that.

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 08, 2023, 04:28 PMOH,  you may or may not be unaware of it, but there are people here who actually like you. But you make it hard to do that when you keep posting what seem to be deliberately inflammatory posts that you know people will rise to. If you could just channel your energies elsewhere maybe you wouldn't feel the need to do this. Are we likely to see Lamplighter surface here by any chance? I used to enjoy reading that.

I used to really enjoy his posts at one time as well. I think he has a great taste in music and usually has interesting things to say about it, but the endless barrage of—to put it as charitably as possible—racially-tinged posts at MB and now here is exhausting.

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 08, 2023, 04:28 PMOH,  you may or may not be unaware of it, but there are people here who actually like you. But you make it hard to do that when you keep posting what seem to be deliberately inflammatory posts that you know people will rise to. If you could just channel your energies elsewhere maybe you wouldn't feel the need to do this. Are we likely to see Lamplighter surface here by any chance? I used to enjoy reading that.

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 08, 2023, 04:37 PM

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 08, 2023, 04:28 PMOH,  you may or may not be unaware of it, but there are people here who actually like you. But you make it hard to do that when you keep posting what seem to be deliberately inflammatory posts that you know people will rise to. If you could just channel your energies elsewhere maybe you wouldn't feel the need to do this. Are we likely to see Lamplighter surface here by any chance? I used to enjoy reading that.

I used to really enjoy his posts at one time as well. I think he has a great taste in music and usually has interesting things to say about it, but the endless barrage of—to put it as charitably as possible—racially-tinged posts at MB and now here is exhausting.

To parrot this, I have to say I learned a lot more about jazz through OH, so, yeah, you have a lot more value than those uber political posts than you can imagine, Dreams.

Have to remember that hawks are birds of prey so they can be dangerous and attack you. Need to keep this in mind.

Hawks are also majestic princes of the air, whose flight and grace can give you much pleasure to watch.
And some of them know a lot about jazz and ambient music.

My feeling is that for mods and users alike, you should keep things as simple as possible. As we already have a "Secret" section, isn't that a suitable place to put controvertial topics? Either the thread-starter puts their thread there, or a mod relocates a thread that is heating up too much.

On the topic of threads overheating, I think that Dreams's comments about Janszoon are way over-the-top: personal insults, unjustified inferences about the real-life Janszoon, as well as (unfounded) accusations that he is somehow insufficiently active politically. None that is fair imo, and although I don't know the details, I don't imagine that the suggestion that J "ignored" OH is fair either. Isn't this a known assumption that we all make going in: Nobody has any obligation to answer anybody else's post. We all have the freedom to come and go as we please. On the one hand, that makes for very comfortable, no-obligation acquaintanceships, the downside is that I'm sure all of us feel neglected at times, like "Why doesn't anyone respond to me :'( ?" I will confess that bitter tears have been shed on this keyboard as I have waited for replies to some of my own posts, but you should never shame specific people about not responding.

was it fair to call my post "eugenics adjacent"

i mean how much abuse am i supposed to take

he doesn't like the woke thread so he implies it's right wing propaganda

he doesn't like cis is a slur thread so he calls me transphobic

he doesn't like the chatgpt thread so he associates me with nazis

hell yes i'm going to punch back

and is there would not be any queer liberation with only neoliberal cowards fighting - it would just be a bunch of closet cases

i'm shaming him for being dishonest in his characterizations of me while hiding behind false persona of innocence - even when offered an olive stick

and frankly considering all the things it has been acceptable of accusing me of i should punch much harder

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 08, 2023, 03:57 PM

Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 08, 2023, 03:36 PMOH, like I wrote in the ChatGPT thread when I shut it down, sensitive topics should be treated a little more delicately.

My appeal to anyone would be that if you want to discuss something controversial and only have the best intentions as to why, just please make those intentions clear right up top. If you only provide something shocking and a smiley, it's not enough. If people then misunderstand or get an angle to attack, it's likely to cause a mess and it's also likely to derail the conversation you actually wanted to have.

I would like to spend my time here doing something else than put out fires and clean up after the mess that woke and racism discussions leave in an increasing amount of threads. I'm kinda hoping that it's just a phase and when these topics are out of everyone's system, perhaps activity would shift into more benign things like music and movies discussions. I'd like that and am fairly sure Trollheart feels the same.

Either way, we could discuss controversial topics if we just approach them with a bit more care. I'm sure that would significantly reduce the amount of conflict that goes on here.

I concur. IMO The discussions of politics and social issues are not the problem in and of themselves, but it requires being polite and genuine in our desire to understand others' points of view rather than posting in bad faith.

I struggle with my own impulses to call people out, make no mistake. But at the end of the day I try my best to understand others' viewpoints and not dismiss them, and I implore everyone to do the same. And by the same token, please be genuine. I'm not going to debate someone whose mind is clearly already made up and comes at me with bad faith or inflammatory posts.

I'm not talking about anyone in particular, I'm talking about all of us, myself included. I think we need to work together to make this place a civil discussion forum. Just my take on the whole thing.

i say i don't want to be called cis - you're like ok - you don't agree with the slur but you don't call me transphobic either

i doubt you'd answer this but if trans hadn't fought it's way to the the t in lgbt

if trans people were totally not accepted by any part of the media

who do you think would fight for you janz or me?

without any guidance but intuition and this is right this is wrong - who do you really think would have your back?

it's obviously me so i don't even care if you don't want to say it or really even if you pretend to the contrary

I thought OH's comments on janz were tame. And on point. What was the most offensive one? That he doesn't even like Sun Ra?

Quote from: Jwb on Mar 09, 2023, 04:11 AMI thought OH's comments on janz were tame. And on point. What was the most offensive one? That he doesn't even like Sun Ra?

yikes - that is a horrible thing to say about somebody

but seriously i appreciate you going to bat for me

Seriously though I might be crazy but I feel like we are gonna need some sort of outlet to vent our genuine dislike for one another.  As a community.  I know some of you don't like me and vice versa.  We can keep pretending like it's not under the surface like janz was raised to do,  but that only leads to repression.  Imo. Which is why we need a subforum that is called The Octogon.

Quote from: Jwb on Mar 09, 2023, 04:21 AMSeriously though I might be crazy but I feel like we are gonna need some sort of outlet to vent our genuine dislike for one another.  As a community.  I know some of you don't like me and vice versa.  We can keep pretending like it's not under the surface like janz was raised to do,  but that only leads to repression.  Imo. Which is why we need a subforum that is called The Octogon.

you'll still get banned

ultimately when the mods or someone they like loses an argument the go to move is to ban the winner

it won't be any different here

Bro you told me do it their way

Stop cockblocking my subforum. If it fails then let it fail. It's worth a try.

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 11:53 PMi say i don't want to be called cis - you're like ok - you don't agree with the slur but you don't call me transphobic either

i doubt you'd answer this but if trans hadn't fought it's way to the the t in lgbt

if trans people were totally not accepted by any part of the media

who do you think would fight for you janz or me?

without any guidance but intuition and this is right this is wrong - who do you really think would have your back?

it's obviously me so i don't even care if you don't want to say it or really even if you pretend to the contrary

With all due respect, I would feel very uncomfortable answering your question. I hope you can respect my point of view on this.

For the record, my post was not directed at you, it was about general behavior when discussing controversial topics. I apologize if I was unclear.

In my daily life I am a very soft spoken and polite person and the last thing I want to do is get involved in any personal drama. I speak up for causes I believe in, and I do so quite passionately at times. But I absolutely do not wish to engage with personal stuff like this and I will excuse myself from this and any further discussions on controversial topics.

At the end of the day I am on this forum to have fun socializing. I don't have very many close friends in real life and I would like my experience here to be pleasant and personally enriching. I sincerely apologize if anything I have said has made anyone uncomfortable. I will try my best to help spread positivity on this forum going forward.

^I accept your apology.

Quote from: Jwb on Mar 09, 2023, 04:42 AMBro you told me do it their way

Stop cockblocking my subforum. If it fails then let it fail. It's worth a try.

fair enough

The Octagon could also just be a thread.

One thing I don't like about beefs is when they start to spill over into various threads and start derailing and putting their stain on discussions where it's not wanted. It would be better to work them beefs out in PMs. If that's not possible, consider using the ignore list. It's a good tool that I'm sure is way underused / underrated in general.

Quote from: Jwb on Mar 09, 2023, 04:21 AMSeriously though I might be crazy but I feel like we are gonna need some sort of outlet to vent our genuine dislike for one another.  As a community.  I know some of you don't like me and vice versa.  We can keep pretending like it's not under the surface like janz was raised to do,  but that only leads to repression.  Imo. Which is why we need a subforum that is called The Octogon.

Good name.

Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 09, 2023, 08:44 AMThe Octagon could also just be a thread.

One thing I don't like about beefs is when they start to spill over into various threads and start derailing and putting their stain on discussions where it's not wanted. It would be better to work them beefs out in PMs. If that's not possible, consider using the ignore list. It's a good tool that I'm sure is way underused / underrated in general.

I'm not sure the ignore list helps. I tried it a few weeks ago and now I have someone hurling insults at me for not replying to his comments.

and for non-stop dishonest mischaracterizations

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 09, 2023, 12:46 PMand for non-stop dishonest mischaracterizations

I'm sorry you feel that way. I assure you I'm not being dishonest.

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 11:45 PMwas it fair to call my post "eugenics adjacent"

i mean how much abuse am i supposed to take

he doesn't like the woke thread so he implies it's right wing propaganda

he doesn't like cis is a slur thread so he calls me transphobic

he doesn't like the chatgpt thread so he associates me with nazis

hell yes i'm going to punch back

Well, I'd recommend arguing against specific criticisms if you don't agree with them. In terms of punching back: precise controlled jabs rather than wild swings that land above and below the belt.
Actually, I like both you and Janszoon very much as posters and I'm sorry that you aren't able to get along better, given that both of you have so much knowledge and great taste in music, books, movies, etc.

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 09, 2023, 12:41 PMI'm not sure the ignore list helps. I tried it a few weeks ago and now I have someone hurling insults at me for not replying to his comments.

I also tried ignoring a poster on MB, which was very unsatisfactory indeed. I kept seeing blank posts and was all the time wondering: is this person posting about me??! I say "all the time", but my ignore plan lasted about two days I think.

I occasionally visit another forum which has a subforum for political oriented threads and it works out quite well. They also have another subforum for posters who get too obnoxious, so they can be sent there to duke it out amongst themselves without the drama spilling into other areas of the forum.

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 09, 2023, 12:52 PM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 09, 2023, 12:46 PMand for non-stop dishonest mischaracterizations

I'm sorry you feel that way. I assure you I'm not being dishonest.

that was profoundly dishone

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 09, 2023, 12:52 PM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 09, 2023, 12:46 PMand for non-stop dishonest mischaracterizations

I'm sorry you feel that way. I assure you I'm not being dishonest.

that's more dishonesty

"eugenics adjacent"

was just pathetic

pathetic moderation that it's still on the forum as well

Would it be too naive to ask both of you to metaphorically shake hands, leave the past where it is, not dredge it up each time one of you has a beef, and try to get on? I mean, constantly going back and forth it's exhausting: WWWP over on MB likened a similar argument to two kids fighting about whose mommy she was, failing to realise she's both their mommy. Although not really.

If there is no blame attached or directed to one or the other, despite either saying they're not to blame, if both agree to shake hands and try to get on and tolerate each other in the future, would that not be better? Or am I just living in a dream world? Oh but it's so much nicer here...

i'm fine dropping it

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 09, 2023, 01:08 PMthat's more dishonesty

"eugenics adjacent"

was just pathetic

pathetic moderation that it's still on the forum as well

You made thread complaining about how ChatGPT wouldn't help you compare the average IQ of white people to the average IQ of black people. If you can't comprehend how someone might see that as a hop skip and a jump from talking about eugenics, I don't know what to tell you. 

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 09, 2023, 01:18 PMWould it be too naive to ask both of you to metaphorically shake hands, leave the past where it is, not dredge it up each time one of you has a beef, and try to get on? I mean, constantly going back and forth it's exhausting: WWWP over on MB likened a similar argument to two kids fighting about whose mommy she was, failing to realise she's both their mommy. Although not really.

If there is no blame attached or directed to one or the other, despite either saying they're not to blame, if both agree to shake hands and try to get on and tolerate each other in the future, would that not be better? Or am I just living in a dream world? Oh but it's so much nicer here...

I've been trying to move on.

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 09, 2023, 01:22 PMi'm fine dropping it

Glad to hear it!

are you?

Yes!

(https://i.postimg.cc/bNBJYY7n/FB20285-D-FE75-4085-9-FEF-68-ADE0-D6-DF50.jpg)

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 09, 2023, 12:41 PM

Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 09, 2023, 08:44 AMThe Octagon could also just be a thread.

One thing I don't like about beefs is when they start to spill over into various threads and start derailing and putting their stain on discussions where it's not wanted. It would be better to work them beefs out in PMs. If that's not possible, consider using the ignore list. It's a good tool that I'm sure is way underused / underrated in general.

I'm not sure the ignore list helps. I tried it a few weeks ago and now I have someone hurling insults at me for not replying to his comments.

I had someone on mine for over six months.

By the time I took them off they were still quoting my posts and hurling insults at me.

Imagine being that sad. Mods did nothing as well.

I have ignored people and it worked well, but these were just people whose vapid posts came frequent and were just a waste of space. I wasn't in any conflict with them.

Okay, great. Both of you have proven you're willing to let bygones be bygones. Nothing worse for a bygone than not being able to be one. Now let's just move on and work to make this place a better one.  :love:

Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 09, 2023, 06:20 PMI have ignored people and it worked well, but these were just people whose vapid posts came frequent and were just a waste of space. I wasn't in any conflict with them.

Same here. I can deal with someone who has an issue with me but someone who floods the new posts page with no consideration for anyone else can bug me to death, especially with the vapid posts. I actually have blocked a couple friends on Facebook for doing that on my feed.

The other thing about Ignore that I found is that if someone quotes a post by the person you're Ignoring, you can still see it. So someone who, for instance, knew someone else was Ignoring them and had an ally on the forum, could use them to do a Trump/Twitter idea, targeting them through quoted posts, and also taunting them if they're that way inclined.

Maybe this is judgmental of me but I've always felt like the ignore button just screams lack of impulse control to me.  Like you can't help but read and respond.  So you put them on ignore.  Then other people quote them and you're forced to read it anyway lol.

I have met people over the years who respond to the person they have on ignore and then when the person responds back they'll post the "you have so and so on ignore" message the forum gives to hide ignored posts. Those people are the best.

I would not agree. Over the years, not necessarily always in MB but there too, people have just decided to post stuff they know annoys me, or keep badgering me about something I no longer want to talk about. One guy had it in his head I had robbed his idea for a journal (I hadn't, and no it wasn't Batty) and got really furious about it, and wouldn't stop referring to it every post. I tried to reason with him but eventually said fuck him and put him on Ignore. He's still there. Sometimes the best way to handle something like that, someone who won't leave you alone, is to put them on Ignore. It's not always, or usually, my preferred way of dealing with it, but sometimes it's the only way.

I'm not saying you should never ignore someone.  But using the forum function as such seems like a lazy replacement for impulse control that usually doesn't even work cause other people still respond to them and so you still end up seeing the forbidden posts.

Heh heh. Just accidentally coined a new name for the forum: Mucus Banter.  :laughing:  :laughing:

Also with the amount of journals you write I'm absolutely certain at least one of them is plagiarized.

You mean I'm plagiarising, or someone is plagiarising me?

I mean I believe the guy who is accusing you.

Oh right I got you. Well that was years ago and it was quite literally a kind of "You're doing a journal about X and I mentioned X in my journal so you robbed my idea!" It was absolute nonsense. At least Batty had a case when I saw his comic books journal and decided to do one of my own; I did kind of rob the idea, though I did something different. But this guy was beyond the pale. And he was furious! The names he called me. Couldn't be reasoned with, so the only thing to do was to put him on Ignore. I don't think he's there anymore but I never bothered to take him off Ignore: I just didn't want to see his posts.

Sure I guess my line of thinking is you should be able to just skim past the posts of someone you don't want to hear from.  Or in other words,  that is what actually ignoring them looks like.

Quote from: Jwb on Mar 11, 2023, 04:41 AMAlso with the amount of journals you write I'm absolutely certain at least one of them is plagiarized.

infinite monkeys infinite typewriters

Hey, now I remember. I'm pretty sure I ignored coryallen2. I think that worked out just fine.

Quote from: Lisnaholic on Mar 08, 2023, 11:26 PMMy feeling is that for mods and users alike, you should keep things as simple as possible. As we already have a "Secret" section, isn't that a suitable place to put controvertial topics? Either the thread-starter puts their thread there, or a mod relocates a thread that is heating up too much.

On the topic of threads overheating, I think that Dreams's comments about Janszoon are way over-the-top: personal insults, unjustified inferences about the real-life Janszoon, as well as (unfounded) accusations that he is somehow insufficiently active politically. None that is fair imo, and although I don't know the details, I don't imagine that the suggestion that J "ignored" OH is fair either. Isn't this a known assumption that we all make going in: Nobody has any obligation to answer anybody else's post. We all have the freedom to come and go as we please. On the one hand, that makes for very comfortable, no-obligation acquaintanceships, the downside is that I'm sure all of us feel neglected at times, like "Why doesn't anyone respond to me :'( ?" I will confess that bitter tears have been shed on this keyboard as I have waited for replies to some of my own posts, but you should never shame specific people about not responding.

that one has been bothering me - i know we buried the hatchet but i'm embarrassed i said that

it's based on absolutely nothing and supremely out of line and disrespectful to your struggle so i wanted to apologize specifically for this

really my bad janz

i'm sorry

So we gonna get this subforum or what?

We seem to have ended at a draw. I guess that means we could give it a go with the caveat that we review the decision in a while and then remove it if it's more trouble than it's worth 🤔

@Trollheart does that sound alright?

I hate democracy. Anyone who voted No should be sent to a different subforum named "The Gulag."

Quote from: Jwb on Mar 20, 2023, 07:23 AMI hate democracy. Anyone who voted No should be sent to a different subforum named "The Gulag."

SCD is only a democracy when that makes sense :) Doing things by vote does have a tendency to bog things down occasionally, so I don't think every decision needs to be a democratic one.

The decision to make this forum might impact the whole community in many ways that may be hard to predict and for that reason, it was a little difficult for me and Trollheart to come to an agreement. Then it makes sense to me to have a democratic process.

edit:

I'll take up name suggestions with Trollheart.

Alright, our new forum called The Abyss is up. It is available to members of the usergroup Divers. To join Divers, click your avatar up top to bring up your personal menu click My Groups and scroll down a bit. There should be a new group there, Divers, that you can join.

See more here: https://scd.community/index.php?topic=241.0

i guess i don't really care but i think if you decide you're not interested, like me, and you don't join, you should be off limits as a subject

i don't want to be a part of it

I'm currently not even sure what should go in there, but I do think that if it turns into something that is going to counter our basic, community minded goals, then it will have to go. We'll see.

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 20, 2023, 03:24 PMi guess i don't really care but i think if you decide you're not interested, like me, and you don't join, you should be off limits as a subject

i don't want to be a part of it

I think this is fair comment and a not unreasonable request. So any discussion of members - other than the most surface: do you think Dreams would like this, did you see that cool image Dreams put up etc - should be left to the public forum. Alternatively, if someone has an issue and needs to speak about him or any other member not a "Diver", then I think it is only fair to request his (or her) permission.

So we can't talk shit about the people in there who did opt in either? Lol

I'm not trying to whine but i am starting to wonder what it is we can do in this controversial forum that we can't do in the main forum. Like i feel like that necro thread would have been acceptable in the main forum or am i wrong? People who can't take the conflict should just stay away.  Don't tell a man he can't have steak just because a baby can't chew it!

I feel like maybe a use for it would be if a thread gets too heated or derailed by drama you can split that convo off and make a new thread for it in the controversial forum. 

No you can rip any Diver a new one. I never said that. Only those who have decided not to participate are exempted, as it's not fair since they can't see what is being said about them.

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 21, 2023, 10:35 PMNo you can rip any Diver a new one. I never said that. Only those who have decided not to participate are exempted, as it's not fair since they can't see what is being said about them.

i think it's a bad idea 👎

The votes have been tallied, and it's a clear winner for meh.
So we went with it.
Whether it's a bad idea or not, time will tell. Actually no it won't: time knows we know where it lives, so it'll keep its big yap shut if it knows what's good for it. I'm sure it remembers what happened to the truth. It's out all right, and it ain't getting back in. Dead men have all their writing privileges taken away.

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Mar 21, 2023, 10:38 PM

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 21, 2023, 10:35 PMNo you can rip any Diver a new one. I never said that. Only those who have decided not to participate are exempted, as it's not fair since they can't see what is being said about them.

i think it's a bad idea 👎

how does it affect you if you don't post there? You' sound like a 1990s conservative ranting about metal music at this point. 

Quote from: Jwb on Mar 22, 2023, 03:16 AM

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Mar 21, 2023, 10:38 PM

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 21, 2023, 10:35 PMNo you can rip any Diver a new one. I never said that. Only those who have decided not to participate are exempted, as it's not fair since they can't see what is being said about them.

i think it's a bad idea 👎

how does it affect you if you don't post there? You' sound like a 1990s conservative ranting about metal music at this point. 

no you

Honestly bro the new subdued you reminds me of the cuck professor from Who Is America?

Quote from: Jwb on Mar 22, 2023, 04:00 AMHonestly bro the new subdued you reminds me of the cuck professor from Who Is America?

i haven't seen that show but if you say so okay dokey

The chatgpt thread could have been moved into The Abyss but with no OP to contribute it doesn't have much point.

Nothing is lost by having the new sub anyway. Also like the name and the divers thing.  8)

How many members have actually joined the abyss out of curiosity?

Shown as, in the memberlist, three. Including you and me, five. That I can see.

Maybe it needs more necrophilia threads to attract more people

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Mar 08, 2023, 02:45 AM

Quote from: Janszoon on Mar 08, 2023, 02:32 AM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 08, 2023, 02:25 AMmaybe people could just quit being hypersensitive trigger warning babies

Oh the irony. :laughing:

youre like the little kid i had to teach ti stop snitching- every thread you cry about

and then you won't interact with me on the sun ra thread and so on

really you are the worst of your generation

you never had an original thought ever

i seriously legit dislike you

Try to be civil mate.  This type of talk does nothing but inflame and cause more problems.  No way to handle any situation.