I took a look and did not find a thread like this - the closest in approximation appears to be the general 'Controversial music opinions' thread, but I thought a more focused thread for overrated artists might be fun.
I'm not talking just 'overrated by the public' or by the 'press', but even 'overrated by music nerds' or 'overrated among fans of a specific genre', etc. You can be creative in your reasoning. It also doesn't mean you have to dislike the artist(s), it could simply mean that you think the general appreciation of an artist is far greater than your own appreciation for them.
And don't just pick the low hanging fruit! Pick some sacred cows that you know you might get some pushback on!
Radiohead
When I was an angsty teenager, I used to have these guys playing in my ears constantly, right alongside the likes of Nine Inch Nails and Nirvana. As I've mellowed out with age, I find myself having a much more difficult time enjoying Radiohead. Listen, I like OK Computer a lot, but it's weird how many people still pretend that Kid A was some kind of unprecedented musical evolution - or pretend that other (successful) rock artists hadn't taken a major turn in their sound to focus on more of an electronica based approach - bands like U2, REM and The Fall had already done this by the time Radiohead did it. The last Radiohead record I truly loved was Hail to the Thief, probably because I thought it was the best happy-medium they ever found between guitar-driven rock and the more krautrock-esque electronica they were doing. Since then, I often find myself hearing newer Radiohead material and coming away from it thinking: "This just sounds like Coldplay for the perpetually depressed."
Queen
I've never really gotten the appeal. Sure, Freddie Mercury has some pipes and Brian May has a nice guitar sound, but my god so many of their songs are so goofy. And when they're not goofy, they're just boring. It's like 'rock music' for people who don't like rock music. How their popularity has endured, specifically among younger generations, completely eludes me.
Billie Eillish
I first heard "Everything I Wanted" years back and thought: "Wow, this is a great track!" - then after hearing more and more Billie Eillish, I learned that the song is representative of so much of her other material. In other words, it all sounds the same. I grew tired rather quickly of Eillish's somber, monotone, and disaffected vocal delivery. She doesn't even write most of her music (her brother does). I haven't heard her latest record yet, so I'll exclude that from my assessment here. Also, I thought the 'edgy sadgirl' aesthetic died with 2014 Tumblr? Guess not. Anyways, I've always liked Lorde better. A shame her last album was a complete snoozefest.
I've got more, but we'll start with that. :laughing:
Quote from: SGR on Jun 07, 2024, 06:54 PMI took a look and did not find a thread like this - the closest in approximation appears to be the general 'Controversial music opinions' thread, but I thought a more focused thread for overrated artists might be fun.
I'm not talking just 'overrated by the public' or by the 'press', but even 'overrated by music nerds' or 'overrated among fans of a specific genre', etc. You can be creative in your reasoning. It also doesn't mean you have to dislike the artist(s), it could simply mean that you think the general appreciation of an artist is far greater than your own appreciation for them.
And don't just pick the low hanging fruit! Pick some sacred cows that you know you might get some pushback on!
Radiohead
When I was an angsty teenager, I used to have these guys playing in my ears constantly, right alongside the likes of Nine Inch Nails and Nirvana. As I've mellowed out with age, I find myself having a much more difficult time enjoying Radiohead. Listen, I like OK Computer a lot, but it's weird how many people still pretend that Kid A was some kind of unprecedented musical evolution - or pretend that other (successful) rock artists hadn't taken a major turn in their sound to focus on more of an electronica based approach - bands like U2, REM and The Fall had already done this by the time Radiohead did it. The last Radiohead record I truly loved was Hail to the Thief, probably because I thought it was the best happy-medium they ever found between guitar-driven rock and the more krautrock-esque electronica they were doing. Since then, I often find myself hearing newer Radiohead material and coming away from it thinking: "This just sounds like Coldplay for the perpetually depressed."
Queen
I've never really gotten the appeal. Sure, Freddie Mercury has some pipes and Brian May has a nice guitar sound, but my god so many of their songs are so goofy. And when they're not goofy, they're just boring. It's like 'rock music' for people who don't like rock music. How their popularity has endured, specifically among younger generations, completely eludes me.
Billie Eillish
I first heard "Everything I Wanted" years back and thought: "Wow, this is a great track!" - then after hearing more and more Billie Eillish, I learned that the song is representative of so much of her other material. In other words, it all sounds the same. I grew tired rather quickly of Eillish's somber, monotone, and disaffected vocal delivery. She doesn't even write most of her music (her brother does). I haven't heard her latest record yet, so I'll exclude that from my assessment here. Also, I thought the 'edgy sadgirl' aesthetic died with 2014 Tumblr? Guess not. Anyways, I've always liked Lorde better. A shame her last album was a complete snoozefest.
I've got more, but we'll start with that. :laughing:
I used to love Radiohead as a teenager, but nowadays Yorke's vocals make them unlistenable to me. He's just so whiny. They are theoretically musically interesting but even that just isn't really my thing anymore.
Queen are okay. Some songs are cool but they never made a consistently good album.
I really like the first Billy Eilish album, one of my favourite straight up pop albums ever it's groovy af. But everything after that didn't work for me, especially the ballads are just tedious.
My picks: Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Tool.
They all sound like lame-ass nickelback-style butt rock to me. Even though Tool are musically complex, they have this shitty alternative sound with shitty alternative rock vocals.
Good thread. I'll be posting my Oasis summary later on.
Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jun 07, 2024, 07:45 PMI'll be posting my Oasis summary later on.
(https://y.yarn.co/df719a5b-0cbe-4d85-9626-208681da79ad_text.gif)
:laughing:
Quote from: grindy on Jun 07, 2024, 07:35 PMMy picks: Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Tool.
They all sound like lame-ass nickelback-style butt rock to me. Even though Tool are musically complex, they have this shitty alternative sound with shitty alternative rock vocals.
Definitely agree on Foo Fighters. It just sounds like completely neutered corporate rock. Stuff to play in restaurants and malls.
Tool I've tried to get into before, but never did. People say their music is 'complex', but it just never resonated with me. I'm not really a big fan of prog metal in general.
With all the fanfare Nirvana has had (you won't find a mall in America that doesn't have their t-shirt available for purchase, right next to the Motley Crue shirts and the Guns N' Roses shirts), I definitely wouldn't argue that they're not 'overrated'. But some of my earliest music memories are riding in my Dad's truck at like, age 4 or 5 and listening to his Nirvana tapes (along with Depeche Mode and Eurythmics tapes), so they'll always have a special place in my heart. :)
Glad to see Queen mentioned and am looking forward to JJ's Oasis roast. I agree with grindy's buttrock complaints except for Nirvana, but I've defended them before on mb: they can't really help that they soudn buttrocky (valid if you can't get over that to be fair) and they do offer something special that those other bands don't.
I'll add to the list:
The Who - I've gotten into some of their earlier songs now which can be brilliant, but never consistently, and the later stuff is just boring. They lack some magic that similar bands do have. and Daltrey is an awful singer
The Jam - so derivative without adding anything interesting
LCD Soundsystem - also very derivative, and both the singing and the lyrics are terrible
St Vincent - part of the vague and aimless indie crowd, and on top of that committed the crime of contaminating some Sleater-Kinney albums with it (I'm not laying the primary blame for that on her but she did produce them and I'm sure it didn't help)
Snoop DoggHow in the hell did this guy turn one great album into a completely lucrative career while being high practically the whole time?
Doggystyle is a classic, in no small part due to Dr. Dre's production. But it was released over 30 years ago. Since then, he's released many, many records (over 20), and while he had a couple decent records when he was signed to No Limit (my favorite being
Tha Last Meal), basically everything else has been complete
Doggshit. Despite this, he's maintained perpetual cultural relevance, doing cooking shows, doing post-game analysis for the NFL, appearing in movies, etc. He's the kind of rapper where it's more exciting to see him doing a guest verse on someone else's record than to hear that he has a new record of his own coming out. He's not even that great of a rapper in any kind of technical sense either. But he is omnipresent - ask a friend or family member, even an older one who doesn't ever listen to rap, if they know who Snoop Dogg is, and 9 times out of 10, I'd wager their answer is 'yes'.
Charismatic, distinctive (in style and voice), and funny, but completely overrated as an artist.
Quote from: Marie Monday on Jun 07, 2024, 10:45 PMThe Who - I've gotten into some of their earlier songs now which can be brilliant, but never consistently, and the later stuff is just boring. They lack some magic that similar bands do have. and Daltrey is an awful singer
The Jam - so derivative without adding anything interesting
LCD Soundsystem - also very derivative, and both the singing and the lyrics are terrible
St Vincent - part of the vague and aimless indie crowd, and on top of that committed the crime of contaminating some Sleater-Kinney albums with it (I'm not laying the primary blame for that on her but she did produce them and I'm sure it didn't help)
I agree with all of your picks (LCD Soundsystem is a great pick, and I thought of including The Jam in my original post), but whether or not The Who is overrated, I'll go to my grave defending
Live at Leeds. That fuckin' record lives rent free in my head. Even the audience interactions. :laughing:
Oh come on now, do I have to give reasons? Ed Sheeran. That is all.
Quote from: Trollheart on Jun 07, 2024, 11:09 PMOh come on now, do I have to give reasons? Ed Sheeran. That is all.
Sounds like you've got some
bad habits of your short posts with a brief tone. :laughing:
You want more? Dare to return and walk down those dark paths...
Trollheart's Hate List: Ed Sheeran (https://www.musicbanter.com/general-music/94096-trollhearts-hate-list.html#post2089015)
Quote from: Trollheart on Jun 07, 2024, 11:22 PMYou want more? Dare to return and walk down those dark paths...
Trollheart's Hate List: Ed Sheeran (https://www.musicbanter.com/general-music/94096-trollhearts-hate-list.html#post2089015)
That's okay Trolls, no need, you're speaking to the converted already. Again, I'd classify Sheeran as 'inoffensive mall music'. :laughing:
Quote from: Marie Monday on Jun 07, 2024, 10:45 PMlooking forward to JJ's Oasis roast
This gives me another thread idea - maybe it would be fun to have a thread where we can just roast music artists, whether we like them or not. I absolutely love The Fall for example, but due to my love and familiarity with them, I'm positive I could subject them to a very comprehensive roast. :laughing:
Snoop Dogg is probably the best example of an average rapper who has a classic album.
Eminem is probably the best example of an elite rapper who hasn't.
The Dogg is definitely overrated. If you look at his discography, other than his debut it is absolutely filled with shite.
He had a brief period in the mid 00s where he dropped a few good singles but that was mainly because of The Neptunes who could produce a hit for anybody at that time.
Good shout, imo.
Just wanted to show that, while the one-liner was atypical of me, I had done my work, even if it was years ago, and can now comprehensively and truthfully say I hate the guy's music, with examples and proofs. Do I hate him? Kind of: I mean, his music wouldn't exist without him and it's unlikely that were he to have done a Daft Punk and disguised himself, or a Banksy even, that people would go so ga-ga over him. But personally I think he's less than average, and most of his music isn't even bad enough for me to hate. But I do.
Proof that Snoopy is the most boring rapper can be seen in the fact that I listened to and enjoyed his 2017 album on that list (Neva Left, maybe? Not sure) and if Trollheart enjoys hip-hop, you know to avoid it!
Hell, I may start the Hate List here again. Only got to do Sheeran, and I have so much more hate to unleash.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l0IyhwEfKdNoUZ1ni/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952p0rm7v8uo1da3m6u4oja214pel2cpfgsty86ph6t&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Alright, let's get nuclear with these takes. I've probably already posted my opinions on Radiohead, The Fall, Eminem, The Beatles, Pavement and The Smiths elsewhere so I won't elaborate on them, but I still think all of them are overrated. Anyway, here goes. No one is safe.
Abba
For the life of me I never understood why so many indie fan/music critic types back in the peak years of Pitchfork seemed to vocally loathe most pop music yet a lot of them seemed to make an exception for Abba. I think they're perfectly serviceable as a cheesy pop band and I do like some of their songs, but it just confused me why they were the hipster-approved cheesy pop band and not the many other pop artists from the 70s and beyond that I think were better.
Sonic Youth
All three of their vocalists annoy me, the random noise parts in the middle of an otherwise ordinary rock song got old hat after the fourth or fifth song they did it in, and I don't think they were particularly good at songwriting beyond having those novel guitar parts. I wish they had done more heavy stuff like Drunk Butterfly, that's easily my favorite song of theirs.
The Grateful Dead
This band's popularity will always be inexplicable to me. People always say their live stuff is the real draw, but I've listened to their bootlegs and I'm even more confused as to how people can sit through 35 minutes of tepid country rock noodling or consider it trippy or psychedelic at all.
Drake
I understand his appeal, and I don't mind the odd feature from him or a few of his old songs. But nothing he does ever really hits me; his braggadocious stuff comes off as impossible to take seriously and his sensitive sadboy stuff tips the scale from "emotionally relatable" over to "syrupy mush" 99% of the time for me.
The Pixies
This band just never hit for me at all. I've never been huge on those surfy style guitar parts, but for a band that was described as having been influential on the "loud quiet loud" style they never seemed to have half the energy or loudness that I expected.
Oasis
I can acknowledge the appeal of a catchy rock anthem. I can understand that when you're drunk and at a festival or gig, their music can sound good. Or if you grew up in the 90s, it has nostalgic value because it reminded you of good times.
But this is a band that is often regarded as one of the greatest bands in British history. I wouldn't be that bothered by them if they weren't so overrated. As I have mentioned before, within my demographic, people will look at you like you pissed on their children if your opinion on them is anything other than 'they're great'. They're basically a pub band who took bits of The Beatles and a couple of others and released a load of average at best records. If Liam wasn't such a controversial character (an arsehole, basically) they wouldn't have half of the following they do who seem to think everything he does is genius and every time he swears it's hilarious. He tries way too hard to force the imagine of being 'cool' and working class and I hate the exaggerated Manc twang in his awful vocals. I hate their shitty lyrics such as "slowly walking down the hall, faster than a cannonball" and "I know a girl called Elsa, she's into Alka-Seltzer, she sniffs it through a cane on a supersonic train". They should be flattered to have ever been compared to Blur, a much better band who were more varied and eclectic in their sound and led by Damon Albarn who is actually very talented. Oasis' solo careers are every bit as shit as their original material. Maybe even worse and that's saying something.
I particularly like this quote from Bloc Party's Kele Okereke:
"I think Oasis are the most overrated and pernicious band of all time. They had a totally negative and dangerous impact upon the state of British music. They have made stupidity hip. They claim to be inspired by The Beatles but, and this saddens me, they have failed to grasp that the Beatles were about constant change and evolution. Oasis are repetitive Luddites."
Fuck Oasis. Bellends. 8)
Quote from: Lexi Darling on Jun 07, 2024, 11:59 PMAlright, let's get nuclear with these takes. I've probably already posted my opinions on Radiohead, The Fall, Eminem, The Beatles, Pavement and The Smiths elsewhere so I won't elaborate on them, but I still think all of them are overrated. Anyway, here goes. No one is safe.
Abba
For the life of me I never understood why so many indie fan/music critic types back in the peak years of Pitchfork seemed to vocally loathe most pop music yet a lot of them seemed to make an exception for Abba. I think they're perfectly serviceable as a cheesy pop band and I do like some of their songs, but it just confused me why they were the hipster-approved cheesy pop band and not the many other pop artists from the 70s and beyond that I think were better.
Sonic Youth
All three of their vocalists annoy me, the random noise parts in the middle of an otherwise ordinary rock song got old hat after the fourth or fifth song they did it in, and I don't think they were particularly good at songwriting beyond having those novel guitar parts. I wish they had done more heavy stuff like Drunk Butterfly, that's easily my favorite song of theirs.
The Grateful Dead
This band's popularity will always be inexplicable to me. People always say their live stuff is the real draw, but I've listened to their bootlegs and I'm even more confused as to how people can sit through 35 minutes of tepid country rock noodling or consider it trippy or psychedelic at all.
Drake
I understand his appeal, and I don't mind the odd feature from him or a few of his old songs. But nothing he does ever really hits me; his braggadocious stuff comes off as impossible to take seriously and his sensitive sadboy stuff tips the scale from "emotionally relatable" over to "syrupy mush" 99% of the time for me.
The Pixies
This band just never hit for me at all. I've never been huge on those surfy style guitar parts, but for a band that was described as having been influential on the "loud quiet loud" style they never seemed to have half the energy or loudness that I expected.
Now that's what I'm talking about! Rufflin' some feathers (including mine!) :laughing:
Oddly enough, I don't necessarily disagree with any of these in terms of being overrated. But I will say I love ABBA, overrated or not. I don't know how Pitchfork or hipsters view ABBA, I don't really inhabit those spaces, but I don't find ABBA cheesy at all. I view it literally as just great, catchy, and effective pop music from great songwriters. I wrote in my journal (SGR's Gold Mine) how much I love their track, "The Visitors" specifically. Not their biggest hit, or even close to their catchiest, but the storytelling is simply superb, telling a tale of a group of freedom fighters opposing their communist government, before they get rounded up.
As for the Pixies - I also love them. I can certainly see how they could be seen as overrated in some circles. The dirty little secret is that the Pixies didn't invent the 'loud quiet loud' dynamic that is often attributed to them (and ripped off by Nirvana), it goes back at least as far as The Gun Club, and perhaps farther back (I'll leave others to correct me on that, but I know that The Gun Club was an influence on the Pixies):
Drake's voice absolutely boils my piss tbf.
As far as ABBA goes, I think you have to understand the time they were "born" in. They started (as everyone surely knows) as an entry for Sweden in the Eurovision, won it, and quickly became more popular than the most popular thing you can think of. They were, I think, the first major band to feature two girls and two guys, and to write all their own music. They looked good, and they sort of captured the zeitgeist of the time (there are still active campaigns to have it released, and your donations are always welcome as we receive no government support). It's probably trite to say their music is "timeless", but it kind of is. You can listen to ABBA now and their messages -such as they are - still resonate. I'm no huge fan, by the way, making their case, but I do like them, and it should also be understood that, at the time, they may have been one of the only pop bands putting actual messages in their music. Listen to the lyric in "The Winner Takes it All", "Fernando", "Chicquitita" or "Knowing Me, Knowing You". Not so much "Dancing Queen". Um.
Sure, mostly these are love songs, but they're hella well-crafted and what would maybe today be called conscious love songs? And of course you can dance to them. But overall yeah, I think the phenomenon of an unknown band winning Eurovision and then becoming the biggest band on the planet, possibly, is behind the key to their success. Plus they looked hot. So did the girls.
:shycouch:
The Dead I agree with. Jesus on a non-stop transatlantic flight with broken headphones trying to watch the in-flight movie! Their live stuff just goes on and on. Talk about the Bull of Heaven! These guys don't stop. And not only that, it seems to be the SAME FUCKING TUNE going on and on and on. Listening to them, honestly, I'd be grateful if I were dead.
Oasis I can take in small doses ("Stop Crying Your Heart Out" is a wonderful song) but yeah, don't get the hero worship. They are better than Blur though. Mind you, that's not saying much is it?
Quote from: Trollheart on Jun 08, 2024, 12:24 AMOasis I can take in small doses ("Stop Crying Your Heart Out" is a wonderful song) but yeah, don't get the hero worship. They are better than Blur though.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaXp5dnd4ZHF2ZG9iMnllZjV2azc5bTVyeTB0bWJpY3d5b243azA2dCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l3q2XhfQ8oCkm1Ts4/giphy.webp)
Quote from: Trollheart on Jun 08, 2024, 12:24 AMThey are better than Blur though. Mind you, that's not saying much is it?
(https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7527865669dbfa401e1e7fb0975eedb6)
Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jun 08, 2024, 12:22 AMDrake's voice absolutely boils my piss tbf.
One of the few artists that use autotune so much, that I feel dumber for having listened to it.
I just personally don't see what you have against ducks? ???
Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jun 08, 2024, 12:12 AMOasis
I can acknowledge the appeal of a catchy rock anthem. I can understand that when you're drunk and at a festival or gig, their music can sound good. Or if you grew up in the 90s, it has nostalgic value because it reminded you of good times.
But this is a band that is often regarded as one of the greatest bands in British history. I wouldn't be that bothered by them if they weren't so overrated. As I have mentioned before, within my demographic, people will look at you like you pissed on their children if your opinion on them is anything other than 'they're great'. They're basically a pub band who took bits of The Beatles and a couple of others and released a load of average at best records. If Liam wasn't such a controversial character (an arsehole, basically) they wouldn't have half of the following they do who seem to think everything he does is genius and every time he swears it's hilarious. He tries way too hard to force the imagine of being 'cool' and working class and I hate the exaggerated Manc twang in his awful vocals. I hate their shitty lyrics such as "slowly walking down the hall, faster than a cannonball" and "I know a girl called Elsa, she's into Alka-Seltzer, she sniffs it through a cane on a supersonic train". They should be flattered to have ever been compared to Blur, a much better band who were more varied and eclectic in their sound and led by Damon Albarn who is actually very talented. Oasis' solo careers are every bit as shit as their original material. Maybe even worse and that's saying something.
I particularly like this quote from Bloc Party's Kele Okereke:
"I think Oasis are the most overrated and pernicious band of all time. They had a totally negative and dangerous impact upon the state of British music. They have made stupidity hip. They claim to be inspired by The Beatles but, and this saddens me, they have failed to grasp that the Beatles were about constant change and evolution. Oasis are repetitive Luddites."
Fuck Oasis. Bellends. 8)
This might even be a regional thing. You mention how they're beyond reproach in Britain - I'll take your word for that, and I understand how that would be irritating. Over here in the States, you're highly unlikely to find anyone who could name an Oasis song other than "Wonderwall". I've told this story before I think, but
Definitely Maybe was the first record I bought with my own money. I wasn't disappointed, even if it was derivative. It was good, fun rock n' roll. And here in America, Grunge had been reigning supreme for so long that it was refreshing to see some dudes with a decent haircut and a parka play some simple, feel good, back to basics rock music again. Without all the moaning, bitching, and self-loathing. It literally just felt good to listen to - the fact that it sounded even better with a couple beers was a plus.
I might say they're underrated in the States, but overrated across the pond. "Wonderwall" isn't anywhere close to their best song. And I'm not a blind stan to them or anything - their solo work is mostly forgettable, and for me, everything they made after Standing on the Shoulder of Giants is largely garbage (and that album was spotty as well), but they were one of the first bands I was properly obsessed with. Coming from a working class background myself (one grandfather of mine was a farmer, the other was a mill worker), I related a lot more to Oasis than I did to the art school kids in Blur.
Oasis' first three records are excellent, along with
The Masterplan, which was mostly b-sides from the era.
The main point I'm trying to make is that not only were Oasis better than Blur, but so was Pulp. :laughing:
I agree on ABBA too. It's just nostalgia, and I don't think historical context should carry a lot of weight in how we rate a band. It won't make their music any better, it's just cheesy and a bit dull
That's also why I don't really care about whether the Pixies invented the loud-quiet-loud thing; it would be different if they were doing a dull ripoff of a cliché, but it wasn't something that had been run into the ground and they made some distinctive and fun music with it.
And of course Nirvana didn't really invent anything they did either; they took the loud-quiet-loud dynamic from the pixies, their sense of melody and chord progressions sounds like it's derived from Young Marble Giants, and their lyrics are reminiscent of John Lennon, but because they blend all these things and add enough of their own character it doesn't feel like uninspired copying
Does anyone think the "rivalry" between Blur and Oasis was deliberately manufactured? I mean, other than both coming from Manchester (I assume; never been that bothered to check) they're not that similar in sound or even outlook. Really, why not compare Oasis to, I don't know, Suede or someone? Never saw the similarity. But my god, did that rivalry sell records! Reminds me of a scene in Father Ted: Teenage Father Damien says to Father Dougal "Here: whcih do you think is better, Blur or Oasis?" Father Dougal says "Blur" and Father Damien glares at him. "What?" Father Dougal then changes his mind: "Uh, uh, I mean Oasis!"
It's a good study of how people expected you to be in one or the other camp, sort of like are you Catholic or Protestant? Anyone asked me, I would have said "Neither: they're both shite."
QuoteI mean, other than both coming from Manchester
Blur are a very obvious London band. You can hear it in Albarn's vocals.
Quote from: Trollheart on Jun 08, 2024, 01:14 AMDoes anyone think the "rivalry" between Blur and Oasis was deliberately manufactured? ... But my god, did that rivalry sell records!
You've got your answer. :laughing:
Lauryn Hill is also horrendously overrated. Her album is average with a couple of above average tunes.
Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jun 08, 2024, 01:17 AMBlur are a very obvious London band. You can hear it in Albarn's vocals.
Not if you're Irish you can't! :laughing: :laughing:
Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jun 08, 2024, 01:29 AMLauryn Hill is also horrendously overrated. Her album is average with a couple of above average tunes.
Dusty Hill is not though.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Dusty_Hill_of_ZZ_Top_performing_in_San_Antonio%2C_Texas_2015.jpg)
[/quote]
Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jun 08, 2024, 01:29 AMLauryn Hill is also horrendously overrated. Her album is average with a couple of above average tunes.
Did you ever hear her MTV Unplugged? :laughing:
Quote from: SGR on Jun 08, 2024, 01:52 AMDid you ever hear her MTV Unplugged? :laughing:
No but I've got her album on CD. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill.
What triggered this post was that recent Apple 100 greatest albums list.
This album was number 1.
Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jun 08, 2024, 02:30 AMThis album was number 1.
What, like...of all time?!? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
The Miseducation of Apple? :laughing: :laughing:
Quote from: SGR on Jun 08, 2024, 02:36 AMWhat, like...of all time?!? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Yep.
I swear it grows in reputation every year, it's getting silly now.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/apple-music-ap-kendrick-lamar-michael-jackson-lauryn-hill-b2549474.html
Same goes for her rap skills. Greatest female rapper of all time? Don't take the piss.
Damn, this thread exploded. We sure are a salty bunch.
I'd like to add Michael Jackson. He had a cool sound at times and he's obviously very influential but apart from some of the hits, which are awesome, the music's pretty lame. The albums are weak and, as usual for me with pop artists, the ballads just suck so fucking much.
Quote from: grindy on Jun 08, 2024, 09:08 AMDamn, this thread exploded. We sure are a salty bunch.
I'd like to add Michael Jackson. He had a cool sound at times and he's obviously very influential but apart from some of the hits, which are awesome, the music's pretty lame. The albums are weak and, as usual for me with pop artists, the ballads just suck so fucking much.
Very good shout.
He's definitely up there.
REM - easier to respect their music than enjoy it
Tom Petty - lost interest after the third album; formulaic crap
Wilco - bland, pointless
Quote from: grindy on Jun 08, 2024, 09:08 AMDamn, this thread exploded. We sure are a salty bunch.
I'd like to add Michael Jackson. He had a cool sound at times and he's obviously very influential but apart from some of the hits, which are awesome, the music's pretty lame. The albums are weak and, as usual for me with pop artists, the ballads just suck so fucking much.
I'd say so as well, though I do love Off the Wall, I think that's a consistently top notch pop album with only one weak track (the big ballad of course lol). Thriller to an extent too, though the big hits are overplayed enough to have lost their luster for me.
Most people may not rate them, never mind overrate them, but I'd like to dip a stick in dogshit and poke these guys with it for a while.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/The_Final_Countdown_single.png)
Now you know me: I do love my AOR/Melodic Rock/Hair Metal/Whatever you're having yourself - give me a few banks of parping keyboards, squealing guitar solos, singalong choruses and I'm anyone's. Not that anyone would have me, but however. I love this kind of music, and I loved that song, so much so that I got the album, which was, by and large, a big mistake.
After somehow keeping themselves in the music business for 45 years, and selling - oh God! I just can't be bothered! Whoever wrote their Wiki entry doesn't give sales figures, and I'm damned if I'm going to tot them all up, but millions anyway - millions of albums, they've never had another chart hit, and have essentially dined out on the success of that one song for over three decades.
That's all well and good, but Europe are, from what I've heard of them, a lazy, lazy band. They write boring, formulaic, standard rock songs with deep lyrics like "Keep on rockin', rock me all night" and "I love my baby" or variants thereof. They are, quite frankly, the worst AOR band I have ever heard, and I've given them a chance. 2012's Bag of Bones was a pleasant surprise, but everything else I've heard - including "The Final fucking Countdown" - could have been written by any teenage garage band. How they've survived this long is beyond me, but then, I suppose the rest of you would say the same about Bon Jovi, Journey or insert AOR band here. Still, compared to any of their contemporaries I find them very much wanting and very inferior, almost like hanging on to the coat-tails of the more successful bands in their field, and so, like the most rabid Leave-campaigner at the height of Brexit, I think I can say I hate Europe.
The band, not the continent.
Quote from: Drjohnrock on Jun 08, 2024, 05:18 PMREM - easier to respect their music than enjoy it
Hard,
hard disagree. They've got one of the best discographies I've had the pleasure of stumbling upon.
I think..
Weezer
I don't think they're exactly bad, but I don't think they've put anything interesting on a record since Pinkerton and I've no idea why their recent cover of Africa blew up. Their inoffensiveness combined with Buddy Holly being catchy seems to have worked out really well, but musically they seem like relative simpletons.
King Crimson
Their debut is hailed as the first prog rock album and universally loved and later on they seem to have become a band that you'd get if only you're smart enough. For myself, I like some of their songs, but I recently tried to watch a concert from their Belew days and I realized I just don't enjoy their music all that much. It is experimental and kudos to them for finding a unique sound a few times in their career, but it's never been that enjoyable. They seem to encompass some of the worst traits of prog rock. A good analogy is Fripp's later robotic approach to guitar playing. It's kinda unique, but also sounding like sterile shit.
Bruford is better with Yes. Belew is better with Frank Zappa. Levin was better with Peter Gabriel. John Wetton has an awful singing voice and the good parts of Red (my favourite KC album) are the instrumental parts when you don't hear him. Fripp was better in Giles, Giles & Fripp.
Lady Gaga
Considering her enormous success, it should be okay to say every other artist she duets with puts her vocal delivery to shame and she's no jazz singer (thinking of that big band album she did with Tony Bennett and later forays into the genre).
Quote from: Guybrush on Jul 11, 2024, 07:56 AMLady Gaga
Considering her enormous success, it should be okay to say every other artist she duets with puts her vocal delivery to shame and she's no jazz singer (thinking of that big band album she did with Tony Bennett and later forays into the genre).
It's funny you mention that, it was only a year or two ago I found out that Lady Gaga had done two duet albums with Tony Bennett. I found that out and I basically had this reaction :laughing: :
(https://gifdb.com/images/high/double-take-wide-eyes-shock-eeyp924a6b4k4g00.gif)
Here's a sample for the morbidly curious:
I will refrain from my assessment of Lady Gaga as 'overrated'. I simply haven't listened to enough of her music to say. What I will say is that I believe she is talented.
Bob Dylan
I don't hate him, but I've never understood why he gets so much love. After seeing him live last week, I really don't understand why he gets so much love
Yeah I never cared for Gaga's forays into jazz but I kinda treat that as just a side project and I don't hold it against her track record. I still think The Fame/Monster/Born This Way is an incredible run of pop records.
Maybe overall as an artist I can see her being overrated. I've certainly been very hit or miss on enjoying her stuff from the past 10 years, mostly miss to be honest. The best thing she's released in a long time was the 2021 remix album, I enjoyed that a lot.
Quote from: Janszoon on Jul 11, 2024, 06:01 PMBob Dylan
I don't hate him, but I've never understood why he gets so much love. After seeing him live last week, I really don't understand why he gets so much love
I saw him live around 10 years ago and he looked ancient back then.
I would tentatively agree about KC. I've been trying to get into their music and while it's true that In the Court of the Crimson King is a major prog record (though not, as Guybrush says, sorry but incorrectly, the first prog record - trust someone who has researched back into the history of the genesis (sorry) of Prog, and it goes way back further than that) overall what I've heard of their output since has been kind of meh. I mean, mostly not bad, but nothing I would acclaim or see any reason for it earning such praise. Mind you, do remember I'm the one living being on this planet who shrugs at Yes's Close to the Edge, so what do I know?
However...
I MUST take issue with his comment on John Wetton's singing (RIP). The man was a great singer, and helped Asia to sell millions of albums, never mind his solo output, that with Wishbone Ash, UK, Roxy Music, Icon and others. He had a very distinctive voice (clearly demarcated when John Payne took over Asia) and while he would not be one of my favourite singers, I do love his English take on the prog rock vocal. He was also a damned good bass player and an excellent songwriter. Come on; the man deserves more respect.
Quote from: Trollheart on Jul 11, 2024, 07:34 PMI would tentatively agree about KC. I've been trying to get into their music and while it's true that In the Court of the Crimson King is a major prog record (though not, as Guybrush says, sorry but incorrectly, the first prog record - trust someone who has researched back into the history of the genesis (sorry) of Prog, and it goes way back further than that) overall what I've heard of their output since has been kind of meh. I mean, mostly not bad, but nothing I would acclaim or see any reason for it earning such praise. Mind you, do remember I'm the one living being on this planet who shrugs at Yes's Close to the Edge, so what do I know?
However...
I MUST take issue with his comment on John Wetton's singing (RIP). The man was a great singer, and helped Asia to sell millions of albums, never mind his solo output, that with Wishbone Ash, UK, Roxy Music, Icon and others. He had a very distinctive voice (clearly demarcated when John Payne took over Asia) and while he would not be one of my favourite singers, I do love his English take on the prog rock vocal. He was also a damned good bass player and an excellent songwriter. Come on; the man deserves more respect.
I didn't claim KC's album is the first prog album. I just pointed out it's
hailed as. It's part of its legacy, true or not. I would never make any such claim because I know the futility of applying this arbitrary delineation to a multitude of gradually evolving musical expression.
I did go a bit far when I wrote that Fripp was better in Giles, Giles and Fripp and that his guitar playing is sterile shit. That was hyperbole. But I'll never gel with Wetton's vocals. You call his voice distinctive. Yes, distinctively unpleasant. For me, anyways. One of prog's worst voices, along with Peter Hammill. Peter Gabriel is often annoying too - until he gets out of Genesis, cuts down on the theatrics a little bit and then he's wonderful.
So now you're just trying to get me going? Gabriel? You dare slur one of the most revered voices in prog? A pox upon you, sir! I challenge you to a duel! Choose your weapon - Mellotron? Hammond Organ? Piano? :laughing: :laughing:
Come on, seriously now. You can say you don't like Gabriel's voice (how, I don't know, but that's your right) but to call both him and his role model annoying? Gabriel may have been a little over-theatrical with Genesis, but that's what prog in the seventies was all about. And sure, you can say you don't like Wetton's vocal, but saying he has "an awful singing voice" is just insulting the man. He's not for you, that's fine, but don't go saying he can't sing, or words to that effect. Have you listened to Asia?
Quote from: Guybrush on Jul 11, 2024, 07:56 AMI think..
King Crimson
Their debut is hailed as the first prog rock album and universally loved and later on they seem to have become a band that you'd get if only you're smart enough. For myself, I like some of their songs, but I recently tried to watch a concert from their Belew days and I realized I just don't enjoy their music all that much. It is experimental and kudos to them for finding a unique sound a few times in their career, but it's never been that enjoyable. They seem to encompass some of the worst traits of prog rock. A good analogy is Fripp's later robotic approach to guitar playing. It's kinda unique, but also sounding like sterile shit.
Bruford is better with Yes. Belew is better with Frank Zappa. Levin was better with Peter Gabriel. John Wetton has an awful singing voice and the good parts of Red (my favourite KC album) are the instrumental parts when you don't hear him. Fripp was better in Giles, Giles & Fripp.
^ That opinion of KCrimson resonates with me, as I always feel that I should like their records, but as yet have failed to do so. As for Fripp, I thought he was at his best on the
No Pussyfooting album. But, yes, sometimes his Frippertronics albums don't have enough bite to them.
I was pretty disappointed with
Giles, Giles & Fripp: too much English whimsy as I recall.
Quote from: Lexi Darling on Jul 11, 2024, 06:31 PMYeah I never cared for Gaga's forays into jazz but I kinda treat that as just a side project and I don't hold it against her track record. I still think The Fame/Monster/Born This Way is an incredible run of pop records.
That run of discs you mention made Lady Gaga very popular in Mexico, and they contain some great songs imo. For me she kind of burnt herself out and then tried that disastrous re-invention of herself as a crooner alongside T Bennett. :yikes:
Quote from: Janszoon on Jul 11, 2024, 06:01 PMBob Dylan
I don't hate him, but I've never understood why he gets so much love. After seeing him live last week, I really don't understand why he gets so much love
The guy is so past his heyday now, I'm not surprised that you and SGR were disappointed with your concert experiences: I don't think I'd bother to see him today.
To me, this is the thing with BD: starting from those famous folk roots, he consistently pushed the envelope of what a singer/songwriter could do: his surreal lyrics, the biting hard rock (longest single ever at the time of its release) of
Like A Rolling Stone, then the complex stories on
Blood on the Tracks, Desire and
Street Legal. At the time almost no one came close to writing songs with so much imagery and detail in them, so Dylan, 25 or so years after writing the song that became a folk anthem (
Blowing In The Wind) was still out there at the cutting edge.
Here's a couple of fave quotes from those albums:-
Spoiler
Sara:
I laid on a dune, I looked at the sky
When the children were babies and played on the beach
You came up behind me, I saw you go by
You were always so close and still within reach
Sara, Sara.Whatever made you want to change your mind?
Sara, Sara. So easy to look at, so hard to define
I can still see them playin' with their pails in the sand
They run to the water their buckets to fill
I can still see the shells fallin' out of their hands
As they follow each other back up the hill.
Idiot wind:
I kissed goodbye to the howling beast
On the borderline that separated you from me.
Black Diamond Bay:
Up on the wide verandah
she wears a necktie and a
Panama hat.
Her passport shows a face
from another time and place.
She looks nothin like that.
I was lucky enough to see him in about 1985, sold out at the enormous Earls Court Stadium. From where we sat he wasn't much bigger than my thumb, but as my companion remarked: "It's amazing that so many people have come just to hear this one small guy sing."
@Lisnaholic, I wasn't really disappointed with my experience seeing Bob Dylan. I was just saying that 10 years ago, he looked pretty old, so I could only imagine how he looked now. Back then, he spent about 90% of the concert sitting on a chair. He still played well, and even his voice was still pretty good. There was definitely a visual feeling that he was way past his prime though.
Probably my favorite Dylan track.
Quote from: Trollheart on Jul 12, 2024, 01:34 AMSo now you're just trying to get me going? Gabriel? You dare slur one of the most revered voices in prog? A pox upon you, sir! I challenge you to a duel! Choose your weapon - Mellotron? Hammond Organ? Piano? :laughing: :laughing:
Come on, seriously now. You can say you don't like Gabriel's voice (how, I don't know, but that's your right) but to call both him and his role model annoying? Gabriel may have been a little over-theatrical with Genesis, but that's what prog in the seventies was all about. And sure, you can say you don't like Wetton's vocal, but saying he has "an awful singing voice" is just insulting the man. He's not for you, that's fine, but don't go saying he can't sing, or words to that effect. Have you listened to Asia?
I love Peter Gabriel's voice here:
And then I don't like it here:
I can't be the only one 😄
Similarly, I'd say Wetton is much better with Asia than he is with KC. As an example, the opening of this song is so brilliant and then it does this 180 when we get to Wetton's awful singing part.
I like Wetton overall but he was a bit wonky live, probably due to all the alcoholism.
Quote from: Guybrush on Jul 12, 2024, 08:50 AMI love Peter Gabriel's voice here:
And then I don't like it here:
Ah well there you have me. I bloody hate that song and Gabriel is - badly - attempting to do a Cockney English accent which always made me believe it was Collins on vocals (it's not). So I will give you that. However, over the entirety of say
The Lamb, Gabriel goes through an incredible range of styles and voices, and I think that in itself demonstrates his amazing vocal versatility and range. I'm checking back, but from
Trespass on (forget
FGtR, I always do) to
The Lamb I can't think of a single song on which his vocals annoy me or don't do him justice. Nope: can't find one. So if you're basing your "dislike" of Gabriel's voice on that one song, yes I agree, but that's a very atypical song for him, though he did attempt other accents such as in "Harold the Barrel" and "Get 'em Out by Friday", which for me all worked.
As for Hammill, whom we have not really gone into but whom you also mentioned, his voice I can take or leave, but again you have to admit he has an incredible range. I'm not a huge VDGG fan to be honest, but I have never really had a problem with Hammill's voice, just the overly jazzy and often somewhat experimental side of the band. I don't therefore know one Peter as well as I do the other, but I would consider "Epping Forest" more an aberration, an exception to the rule than anything else.
QuoteI can't be the only one 😄
Similarly, I'd say Wetton is much better with Asia than he is with KC. As an example, the opening of this song is so brilliant and then it does this 180 when we get to Wetton's awful singing part.
In terms of King Crimson, I played it and by god yes I see what you mean.I would place a small caveat there, that unlike you, I hated that song. Maybe I'll never be a fan of Fripp and Co., but to me, while Wetton's voice was, as you say, awful there, it didn't ruin the song because I would have disliked it no matter who sang it. However, that's just me. Perhaps that band did not suit his talents, but I know him mostly from Asia and while I personally prefer John Payne, the man's voice has really affected me on occasions, and in a good way.
He also worked very well with Geoff Downes in Icon and Wetton/Downes.
Quote from: SGR on Jul 12, 2024, 04:03 AM@Lisnaholic, I wasn't really disappointed with my experience seeing Bob Dylan. I was just saying that 10 years ago, he looked pretty old, so I could only imagine how he looked now. Back then, he spent about 90% of the concert sitting on a chair. He still played well, and even his voice was still pretty good. There was definitely a visual feeling that he was way past his prime though.
Yes, sorry, I should've read your post with more care. Hurricane is a great song, but not my favourite on that album TBH.
It's a pity that neither of us saw him at age 23:-
...or age 34:-
I still think Bob Dylan's 1966 live album of the royal Albert hall concert that wasn't in the royal Albert hall is one of the best pieces of music ever made (partly due to the Band being the backing band), but I have not the slightest inclination to see him love now. Funny how someone's personality can mar their own brilliance so much
I don't care buttons about Dylan, but you have me intrigued now. How was his Royal Albert Hall concert not in the Royal Albert Hall? Asking for a friend. Who, coincidentally, has the same name as me, looks exactly like me and lives in my house. I said it was a coincidence, didn't I?
Quote from: Lisnaholic on Jul 12, 2024, 03:50 AMThe guy is so past his heyday now, I'm not surprised that you and SGR were disappointed with your concert experiences: I don't think I'd bother to see him today.
To me, this is the thing with BD: starting from those famous folk roots, he consistently pushed the envelope of what a singer/songwriter could do: his surreal lyrics, the biting hard rock (longest single ever at the time of its release) of Like A Rolling Stone, then the complex stories on Blood on the Tracks, Desire and Street Legal. At the time almost no one came close to writing songs with so much imagery and detail in them, so Dylan, 25 or so years after writing the song that became a folk anthem (Blowing In The Wind) was still out there at the cutting edge.
Well, Willie Nelson is almost a decade older than Bob Dylan and he still managed to be pretty great at the show last week. 8)
I think maybe my issue with Dylan has to do with the fact that I got into Leonard Cohen in my early teens, long before I tried to explore Dylan's back catalogue, so the bar was set pretty high for me. I've honestly never been wowed by Dylan's lyrics the way I have been by Cohen's.
I think he's great. Love his albums.
Wouldn't want to see him live though.