I figured I'd create a separate thread for this, because the discussion and issue interests me.
To be honest, I don't use TikTok, but I know a lot about it given I work in the tech sphere.
If you don't know, TikTok is an app that features short videos (like Vines, if you remember those) - it's demographic skews younger (young adult/teen/pre-teen) - and, this is the important part, it's owned by ByteDance, a Chinese company. China themselves don't allow TikTok in their country, which is telling (there's a separate, highly censored TikTok app, known as Douyin, that's accessible in China).
Our politicians often talk about this issue as a matter of data privacy (i.e. Oh no, China might learn about our citizens and capture our searches) - but I view the issue primarily as an influence one - which would affect our national security (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-08/tiktok-ban-in-us-how-it-became-a-us-china-national-security-issue). Companies in China need to answer to the CCP, and thus, the CCP has an outsized influence on all Chinese companies. As a result, the foreign government of China could boost or suppress certain videos/trends/ideas on the app that would be to their geopolitical advantage over the U.S. It's not a matter of data privacy to me, it's a potential brainwashing issue on our youth.
Oddly, Trump, while in office, vocalized support for a ban - that didn't happen - but now, Trump apparently opposes a ban (https://www.axios.com/2024/03/09/tiktok-ban-trump-republicans). Other Republican party members, like Vivek Ramaswamy and Rand Paul also oppose the ban, framing it as a free speech issue (the CCP, in my opinion, is not entitled to 'free speech' in our country).
Meanwhile, Biden has vocalized that he will sign the bill to ban TikTok, if Congress passes it (https://apnews.com/article/biden-tiktok-ban-house-china-aaa884d8c974f0a35856af5ee6aa4e99).
So what's going on here? Is Trump simply 'taking the free money' since he can't really do anything to veto/approve a banning of TikTok (while he's out of office)? Is he trying to capture youth voters who might just look at it like: "Which candidate supports TikTok and which one doesn't?" Why would Republicans sign off on an app that is highly addictive (by its nature) when its owned and controlled by a foreign government? Some of them are stupid, but I wouldn't consider either Rand Paul or Vivek Ramaswamy to be in that category. One thought I've had is that our intelligence agencies have already either found out how to capture/spy on TikTok (which makes it a national security asset) - or the Republicans supporting the ban are in some way owned by, or rather have big financial interests in China.
What do you think? Should TikTok be banned? Have you used TikTok? What are your experiences?
'Lol hey guys' - Biden joins TikTok despite security concerns (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68275634)
Trump says a TikTok ban would only help 'enemy of the people' Facebook (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68538754)
House passes bill that could lead to a TikTok ban; fight shifts to the Senate (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/house-passes-bill-that-could-lead-to-a-tiktok-ban-fight-shifts-to-the-senate.html)
The U.S. wants ByteDance to sell TikTok. China is almost certainly going to refuse (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-wants-bytedance-sell-tiktok-china-almost-certainly-going-refuse-rcna143531)
So the more I learn about this bill, the more it stinks.
It's starting to seem to me that it's not really just about banning TikTok, but rather about giving the executive branch the ability to go after social media companies that they deem a threat to 'national security'. A digital PATRIOT act, if you will. If my understanding is correct, then I completely oppose it. I think TikTok should be divested and sold to American ownership, but if this is the price we have to pay, it's not worth it - don't want to invite that Trojan horse in.
Also, curious that this is all happening shortly after TikTok has boosted pro-Palestine videos that have been bad for Biden's re-election campaign.
Quote from: SGR on Mar 15, 2024, 11:25 AMSo the more I learn about this bill, the more it stinks.
It's starting to seem to me that it's not really just about banning TikTok, but rather about giving the executive branch the ability to go after social media companies that they deem a threat to 'national security'. A digital PATRIOT act, if you will. If my understanding is correct, then I completely oppose it. I think TikTok should be divested and sold to American ownership, but if this is the price we have to pay, it's not worth it - don't want to invite that Trojan horse in.
Also, curious that this is all happening shortly after TikTok has boosted pro-Palestine videos that have been bad for Biden's re-election campaign.
I don't trust the U.S. government in general and I don't trust the U.S. government when it comes to personal data and information and snooping on people in particular. Plus the fact that the U.S. government, military, and mainstream media have been going out of their way lately to demonize China and make it America's number 1 bogeyman.
QuoteWang Wenbin, a spokesperson for China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said Thursday that the U.S. bill is "at odds with the principles of fair competition and international trade rules," according to an NBC News translation.
"If the pretext of national security can be used to suppress excellent companies from other countries arbitrarily, there is no fairness or justice to speak of. It is a complete logic of theft to see something good and try to take it for oneself by any means necessary."
I also agree with that above quote from Mr. Wenbin.
"The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out."
- George Carlin
Quote from: Psy-Fi on Mar 15, 2024, 01:48 PMI don't trust the U.S. government in general and I don't trust the U.S. government when it comes to personal data and information and snooping on people in particular. Plus the fact that the U.S. government, military, and mainstream media have been going out of their way lately to demonize China and make it America's number 1 bogeyman.
Fully agreed that the government is not trustworthy when it comes to personal data and spying. Snowden showed us the truth about that. The US government isn't supposed to arbitrarily spy on Americans, but thanks to the Five Eyes intelligence alliance, British intelligence can spy on us Americans all they want and share the data with the US govt. So basically, if you're of interest to the US govt for any reason, they will spy on you, and they don't need a warrant.
I gotta disagree with Mr. Wenbin. There is a real national security risk with allowing TikTok to continue in the same manner it has completely unabated because it's influencing and shaping the minds of young Americans - the Chinese government could boost any issue they want to cause conflict internally within the US or cause Americans to become opposed to American geopolitical strategies. I'd hardly call that 'arbitrary'. There's a reason the Chinese government doesn't allow the version of TikTok we know as Americans in their own country.
Again though, if the ramifications of the bill allow the executive branch to shutdown American social media companies, this is pork barrel bullshit.
A Vital Question on This New, Bipartisan TikTok Ban
The TikTok Ban Will Backfire
I don't think TikTok is brainwashing the youth. TikTok has on the ground reporters in civilians in Gaza. It's the purest form of free speech. You get to really see what's going on.
Data privacy angle is BS. If the government was so worried about our data privacy they would involve meta in their crackdowns along with data brokers. If China wants our information all they have to do is buy it from data brokers that have complete free reign in the states. They sell our information to third parties all the time and not a word from Congress.
They just want to demonize China more to the public so it makes sense when we finally go to war with China. More people will be on board with it.
I don't have too much to say as I'm neither American or a tiktok user, but I think it's highly probable that both the brainwashing concern and data collection/spying concerns are legit. I'm not sure tiktok is worse than, say, Facebook who already have provided Russia or other nations a new way to attack and destabilize other nations, but the concern is very legit.
The problem is bigger than tiktok, though. I think there should be global regulation. I'm just firing from the hip here, but something like a treaty / agreement on what these companies and their algorithms are allowed to do and the establishing of some agency perhaps who have access to tools/help that allow them to analyse what these companies are doing and how these algorithms work. Companies should have to provide access into their systems for control and logging purposes and if they don't comply, they should be banned in the countries who signed the treaty.
It's just an idea off the top of my head, but I'm sure a lot of this stuff exists already and just needs to be organised.
Quote from: DJChameleon on Apr 01, 2024, 04:22 AMI don't think TikTok is brainwashing the youth. TikTok has on the ground reporters in civilians in Gaza. It's the purest form of free speech. You get to really see what's going on.
Data privacy angle is BS. If the government was so worried about our data privacy they would involve meta in their crackdowns along with data brokers. If China wants our information all they have to do is buy it from data brokers that have complete free reign in the states. They sell our information to third parties all the time and not a word from Congress.
They just want to demonize China more to the public so it makes sense when we finally go to war with China. More people will be on board with it.
While I don't necessarily disagree with your view on the data privacy angle, I do disagree with your assessment of TikTok as the purest form of free speech.
The problem here for me is that TikTok is driven by an algorithm. This algorithm is controlled by the Chinese government. And the algorithm itself could be described as a form of 'intelligence'. Like many social media algorithms, it adjusts the content you see based on the content you engage with. But that's not the whole story. TikTok and ByteDance employees also have the ability to utilize a 'heating' button to make whatever content they choose go viral (https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2023/01/20/tiktoks-secret-heating-button-can-make-anyone-go-viral/?sh=4062d1b36bfd). It's a manual manipulation, boosting content to eyes and brains of young Americans, controlled by China. While you might agree that Israel should be criticized for their actions, and you disagree with their conduct (and personally, I have a lot of issues with how they're handling things as well), there's been a perception among many that TikTok has one-sidedly boosted anti-semitic/anti-Israel content in the wake of the war (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/28/business/tiktok-israel-hamas-war-gaza.html). Is it just a coincedence that this content is in opposition with the position and actions of the US government, a geopolitical superpower that China would like to displace? Another example would be late last year, when many videos went viral on TikTok reading Bin Laden's letter to America (https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/tech/tiktok-osama-bin-laden-letter-to-america/index.html), promoting sympathy for Bin Laden/Al Qaeda and breeding anti-American sentiment.
I disagree that this is simply 'demonizing China'. You and I both know that China does not value or have free speech, and it would not make sense that they'd want to promote 'free speech' through video content to Americans. And you and I both know that if America had their own 'TikTok', with complete American control of the algorithm and what content gets promoted, China would ban that shit so fast, it'd make your head spin. And I think they'd be completely in the right to do so. America has done plenty of demonization of China in the past, without real substantiated merit - but I don't think this TikTok issue is one of them. As long as it remains in Chinese control, it truly is a national security threat.
According to some sources, OpenAI's GPT-4 is '82% more persuasive than humans' (https://newatlas.com/technology/gpt-persuasion-manipulation/) - once AI's like these are integrated into something as internationally widespread as TikTok, it could truly be the greatest geopolitical weapon of all time. Rather than making your geopolitical enemies submit via force (bombs, war, nukes), you could make them submit simply through persuasion (brainwashing). Of course, if we (America) are going to allow China to do this, while China forbids us to do it, it's pretty obvious who's going to be brainwashed.
All this being said, I don't think TikTok will be banned in the US, because there's simply too much money at stake.
TikTok warns US ban would 'trample free speech' (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68867732)
After Biden signs TikTok ban into law, ByteDance says it won't sell the social media service (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiktok-bytedance-says-it-wont-sell/)
I recently got into checking out tiktok lives but like the debate ones. There have been some interesting conversations and funny ones I have listened to but they can get old super quickly so I just do something else.
Quote from: DJChameleon on Jul 06, 2024, 02:53 PMI recently got into checking out tiktok lives but like the debate ones. There have been some interesting conversations and funny ones I have listened to but they can get old super quickly so I just do something else.
tiktok live streams were the vibe for me but after a while I stopped watching, then eventually posting and checking the app less. now Im at the point to where I don't even repost or check out peoples content.
i remember you commenting on that video, that's about all I have still. I deleted most videos one day.
Quote from: Shhon on Jul 06, 2024, 03:31 PMtiktok live streams were the vibe for me but after a while I stopped watching, then eventually posting and checking the app less. now Im at the point to where I don't even repost or check out peoples content.
i remember you commenting on that video, that's about all I have still. I deleted most videos one day.
Yeah I barely post videos as you can see. I do the random filter here and there. I have had ideas for videos but never filmed.
Under no condition should tiktok be banned.
Quote from: DJChameleon on Jul 06, 2024, 04:59 PMYeah I barely post videos as you can see. I do the random filter here and there. I have had ideas for videos but never filmed.
I just went with completely deleting my account tonight.
Quote from: Shhon on Jul 08, 2024, 02:55 AMI just went with completely deleting my account tonight.
Good job gets rid of the temptation completely.
The old "we're doing it for the children" ruse...
Fourteen AGs sue TikTok, accusing it of harming children's mental health (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/tiktok-sued-14-attorneys-general-rcna174395)
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
- Adolf Hitler
QuoteFRANCE 24 English
Oct 28, 2024
Earlier this month, TikTok announced it has sacked around 500 employees in Malaysia whose job it was to delete inappropriate content. What is highly controversial though is that the workers will be replaced with a cheaper option: artificial intelligence. France 24's team in Kuala Lumpur sent this report.
https://themusicessentials.com/news/tiktok-us-ban-heres-why-time-is-running-out/ (https://themusicessentials.com/news/tiktok-us-ban-heres-why-time-is-running-out/)
QuoteIf ByteDance fails to divest by the January 19, 2025 deadline, American app stores could remove TikTok completely, meaning users would no longer be able to download or access it in the U.S. This ban would affect thousands of TikTok's U.S.-based employees and could send shockwaves through the tech world. But can ByteDance even find a buyer?
Deadline is quickly approaching.
QuoteLastWeekTonight
Nov 21, 2024
John Oliver discusses the looming TikTok ban in the U.S., what some potential motivations behind it could be, and, most importantly, the fact that you ARE bisexual. Yeah, you.
Trump meets TikTok CEO as ban deadline looms (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cre7vdz4npzo)
So today I've learned that in the 50 page emergency filing that was denied. The servers for TikTok are not even based in China. China doesn't have anything to do with TikTok and it's just a scapegoat.
The number one reason that they want TikTok banned and this is coming from Mitt Romney himself is that there is too much pro Palestinian content on the platform. They want to control the media that's getting to us through TikTok from pro Palestinian movement on the ground in the middle east.
Hopefully Trump is able to step in and get something done to prevent the ban but I don't have my hopes high from a conman.
i think onlyfans should be banned ...its helping destroying the USA society well any country that allows it
why is it that china does not allow onlyfans like the main reasons ..???
Quote from: Norg on Dec 18, 2024, 09:15 AMi think onlyfans should be banned ...its helping destroying the USA society well any country that allows it
why is it that china does not allow onlyfans like the main reasons ..???
i heard onlyfans is now allowed in China now
The Supremes have agreed to hear the case in January, on the grounds of whether a ban would violate the constitutional free speech rights of the users.
Trump opposes TikTok ban, asks Supreme Court for time to resolve via negotiations (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiktok-ban-unconstitutional-supreme-court/)
TikTok makes last ditch legal bid to prevent imminent US ban (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz9g91gn5ddo)
Media reports say that after two hours of oral, the Supremes seem likely to buy the gubbermint's argument that TT should be banned on security grounds.
Quote from: Buck_Mulligan on Jan 10, 2025, 08:03 PMMedia reports say that after two hours of oral, the Supremes seem likely to buy the gubbermint's argument that TT should be banned on security grounds.
Shit, I'd agree with the gubbermint's TT argument (or probably most other arguments) after only one hour of oral!
Here's a detailed account from the Legalytics blog on Substack of the questions asked by each of the justices with an interesting chart.
You may have to reject the request to subscribe in order to read.
https://legalytics.substack.com/p/special-report-tiktok-supreme-court (https://legalytics.substack.com/p/special-report-tiktok-supreme-court)
https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/1878963907651661968
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F2f33c22b3bf38b4f652c67ab9674ef73%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D5932113&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=f2a945107ae78f5df5389f739794e56e64a3dd5bf93d5737b0cc389d93b19643&ipo=images)
US TikTok users flock to Chinese app Xiaohongshu in protest with TikTok ban looming (https://apnews.com/article/china-xiaohongshu-tiktok-ban-refugees-c7f440803128ef50f0ade44d16068f01)
Quote from: SGR on Jan 14, 2025, 08:11 PMUS TikTok users flock to Chinese app Xiaohongshu in protest with TikTok ban looming (https://apnews.com/article/china-xiaohongshu-tiktok-ban-refugees-c7f440803128ef50f0ade44d16068f01)
I just got out my little red book
The minute that you said goodbye
I thumbed right through my little red book
I wasn't gonna sit and cry...
Love - My Little Red Book
https://x.com/MissGinaDarling/status/1878881110664568935?t=RMPhXSiL-msyrUT-3l0yFA&s=19
WaPo...
QuoteTikTok CEO to attend Trump's inauguration on Monday, a day after the U.S. ban is set to start
TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew plans to attend Donald Trump's inauguration on Monday, a day after a nationwide ban against the app that the president-elect has pledged to "save" is set to take effect.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpdHKRVR/DT.png)
Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5083305-supreme-court-upholds-tiktok-ban/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vHW9vSXf/LRB.jpg)
Trump says he'll 'likely' give TikTok 90-day extension to avoid ban (https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-hell-give-tiktok-90-day-extension-avoid/story?id=117831025)
Yeah he's bullshitting as usual because he doesn't have the power to do that.
"TikTok is a Chinese Communist spy app that addicts our kids, harvests their data, targets them with harmful and manipulative content, and spreads communist propaganda."
- Senator Tom Cotton(https://i.postimg.cc/4xfdnzD9/CA.jpg)
Quote from: DJChameleon on Jan 18, 2025, 11:57 PMYeah he's bullshitting as usual because he doesn't have the power to do that.
TikTok says it's restoring service to US users based on Trump's promised executive order (https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-ban-trump-biden-china-bdc79b7ce741a81761f67ea56d410103)I am not a TikTok user, but I know some who are. Sounds like TikTok (in the app and on social media) even gave Trump a shout-out. Well, after all, they are Chinese - which means they know how to handle strong-armed shakedowns by party officials - it requires not just bribes but also flattery. This is not a unique or unprecedented business challenge for them. And you best believe ByteDance is paying attention to how our own tech companies are adjusting to the incoming administration - we've seen Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, etc. kiss the ring, but there was also this official statement from NVIDIA on AI policy (https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/ai-policy/).
QuoteThe first Trump Administration laid the foundation for America's current strength and success in AI, fostering an environment where U.S. industry could compete and win on merit without compromising national security. As a result, mainstream AI has become an integral part of every new application, driving economic growth, promoting U.S. interests and ensuring American leadership in cutting-edge technology.
...
As the first Trump Administration demonstrated, America wins through innovation, competition and by sharing our technologies with the world — not by retreating behind a wall of government overreach. We look forward to a return to policies that strengthen American leadership, bolster our economy and preserve our competitive edge in AI and beyond.
https://x.com/RushDoshi/status/1881420689552585086
Quote from: QuantumSync on Jan 21, 2025, 12:25 AMhttps://x.com/RushDoshi/status/1881420689552585086
(https://i.postimg.cc/XJDRS1W6/DT2.jpg)
Quote from: Psy-Fi on Jan 21, 2025, 01:16 AM(https://i.postimg.cc/XJDRS1W6/DT2.jpg)
I officially know this dudes name now from your meme lol
https://www.fdlreporter.com/story/news/local/2025/01/19/tiktok-ban-cited-in-arson-of-us-congressman-glenn-grothmans-office-in-fond-du-lac/77825530007/
QuotePolice said the 19-year-old suspect "admitted to starting the fire in response to recent talks of a TikTok ban." Grothman was among a bipartisan majority of 360 House members who voted last year in favor of a bill that would force TikTok's Chinese parent company to sell the app or face a ban in the U.S. That ban went into effect over the weekend.
They are lucky the ban got overturned so quickly. I'm sure there would have been more happening.
AOC Reveals THE TRUTH About TikTok Ban
Red Note Exposed the Truth About China...Trump Now Has a MASSIVE Problem!
WaPo is reporting that the White House is negotiating with Larry Ellison (Oracle) to buy TT.
The Hill - The Real Reason for the TikTok Ban
Quote from: Buck_Mulligan on Jan 26, 2025, 12:48 AMWaPo is reporting that the White House is negotiating with Larry Ellison (Oracle) to buy TT.
WaPo is owned by Bezos, in felonious trump's pocket.
...But seriously :o ...if Tiktok is banned, how am I going to learn how to dance??
Banning Tik-Tok over some nebulous vague data security threat from China has always been bullshit. Any state actor can get their mits on that data from data brokers for peanuts. All of your data is on sale always. This was always about narrative control, which became pretty clear after public opinion on Israel/Palestine shifted so rapidly and massively (and likely permanently). They're desperately trying to stuff the toothpaste back into the tube. Not gonna work.