Do you feel that punk's ethos has led to overall good within the world? You see facets of punk in so many facets of modern culture; from zines to fashion to, I feel most importantly, the attitudes and change that punk created in the popular zeitgeist. The music's important for sure, but the meaning is what made so many latch on! The politics of punk are nearly inseparable from the genre, and even "diet" punk artists, ones that have more accessibility or recognition, still carry the flame of rebellion and opposition to control power and greed that acts like The Clash instilled into the scene.
I find it interesting looking so close to home to find the ripple effects of the late 70s and what I think of as adhering to the culture. What does punk mean for you?
The biggest thing I get from punk is camaraderie and emphasis on family. Just last week, I saw dozens of kids under the age of 10 at a show by The Bouncing Souls and the drummer for H20 was the singer's 25 year old son. In the last year, I've seen lots of kids at shows by DKM and Teenage Bottlerocket. The Dollyrots take their kids on tour with them and they even appear up on stage during the concert.
With most those artists, there is a mention of politics from the stage but it isn't a rallying cry or a call to arms. There is more talk about respecting everybody. I see it as one big misfit island, come as you are.
Obviously, that dynamic goes a tad south with hardcore!
Overall, I think the angst has calmed down over the years because being pissed off is not sustainable...or perhaps it has been normalized, not sure. Even punks want a happy marriage!
Quote from: Buckeye Randy on May 02, 2025, 10:40 AMThe biggest thing I get from punk is camaraderie and emphasis on family. Just last week, I saw dozens of kids under the age of 10 at a show by The Bouncing Souls and the drummer for H20 was the singer's 25 year old son. In the last year, I've seen lots of kids at shows by DKM and Teenage Bottlerocket. The Dollyrots take their kids on tour with them and they even appear up on stage during the concert.
With most those artists, there is a mention of politics from the stage but it isn't a rallying cry or a call to arms. There is more talk about respecting everybody. I see it as one big misfit island, come as you are.
Obviously, that dynamic goes a tad south with hardcore!
Overall, I think the angst has calmed down over the years because being pissed off is not sustainable...or perhaps it has been normalized, not sure. Even punks want a happy marriage!
Well said!
I love that punk is, in theory and much of it's practice, very accepting and social. The community and the family aspect, chosen and blood alike, is what makes it the haven it is for expression and belonging. I love how the ethos spread to other genres like industrial, experimental, even EDM even metal after a point and how it shapes this togetherness and DIY attitude towards multiple facets of life beyond just the music.
It is unfortunate that a lot of hardcore doesn't follow suit to that and how some of that is the opposite, cliquey, exclusive, and sometimes authoritative!
Quote from: tristan_geoff on May 02, 2025, 09:35 PMWell said!
I love that punk is, in theory and much of it's practice, very accepting and social. The community and the family aspect, chosen and blood alike, is what makes it the haven it is for expression and belonging. I love how the ethos spread to other genres like industrial, experimental, even EDM even metal after a point and how it shapes this togetherness and DIY attitude towards multiple facets of life beyond just the music.
It is unfortunate that a lot of hardcore doesn't follow suit to that and how some of that is the opposite, cliquey, exclusive, and sometimes authoritative!
I think the current punk mindset is similar to the mindset that brought people together at Monterey Pop and Woodstock in the '60's. The music at those festivals crossed genres and color and was a big melting pot of accepting people as they are. I do think the '60's 'peace/love' mantra eventually became a wall to anybody that didn't fit hippy culture and the whole thing was eventually hijacked by political activists and led to violence. I think the current punk attitude that started as an anti-hippy stance has fared much better and certainly has stood a much longer test of time.
Do you go to many shows? My next punk show is less than two weeks, Amyl and The Sniffers.
Quote from: Buckeye Randy on May 03, 2025, 01:55 AMI think the current punk mindset is similar to the mindset that brought people together at Monterey Pop and Woodstock in the '60's. The music at those festivals crossed genres and color and was a big melting pot of accepting people as they are. I do think the '60's 'peace/love' mantra eventually became a wall to anybody that didn't fit hippy culture and the whole thing was eventually hijacked by political activists and led to violence. I think the current punk attitude that started as an anti-hippy stance has fared much better and certainly has stood a much longer test of time.
Do you go to many shows? My next punk show is less than two weeks, Amyl and The Sniffers.
It's interesting to hear about how hippies without the rose coloured glasses, were often pretty conservative and that became the generation raising the punks, which led to that intergenerational dynamic (I love the interpretation of this in SLC Punk)
I go to sooo many shows :D my main venue is this place called Panther Lake that a friend runs, he was involved in the 90s punk scene in Raleigh, NC and a lot of his friends from back in the day are regulars there. I don't have any shows I'm expecting other than ones I am involved in, playing sunday with some friends. There are a few festivals coming up at the lake that I'll be at too, I'm playing the first one (Rent Strike is on the bill :)))
At its best, I love punk's DIY attitude and gut instinct for what goes. I love the anti-authoritarianism and the challenging of the establishment. My favourite expressions of this is probably in the world of female punk bands. The Slits is a favourite of mine. They're fun, challenging, follow their instincts and made something nobody else could have made.
The punk movement to me, though I only felt close to it for a short while in a Southern Norwegian town in the 90s, seems to me largely a failure to its ideals. What should be solidarity became gatekeeping. What should be individual expression became uniformation, both in musical expression and in aesthetics. What should have been tolerance too often became flirting with fascism and right wing ideas.
When you're a kid, I think cynicism is seductive. It has a romantic component, like you're bitter with a world that has hurt you. I felt like this cynicism was very present in punk back then (and other youth cultures too), but I also do find it a little immature. A more mature insight is that we need to foster trust, solidarity with others and a social conscience. Gratitude towards eachother. The political left here understands this camaraderie very well and extends a hand to everyone, but I'm not sure punks here ever did.
I think there are other musical movements that were more successful when it came to upholding punk ideals. Take the bands related to comparatively small Rock In Opposition movement. It has the anti-authoritarianism. It challenges musical establishment as well as its listeners. It is ripe with individual expression. If or when it had a political leaning, it was to the left. The catch is that they were less appealing and less commercially viable.
Quote from: tristan_geoff on May 03, 2025, 05:52 AMI'm playing the first one (Rent Strike is on the bill :)))
The same Rent Strike on Spotify?
Are you familiar with Aussie punks, Amyl and The Sniffers? I'll be seeing them in a little over a week and was really surprised how quickly they sold out the Agora (capacity 2000). They will be in Raleigh at The Ritz on May 21st.
The Offspring play big sit down venues and say the exact same things between songs no matter the city. I've seen them four times and really like them. However, it doesn't feel like a punk show when seeing them.
yeah totally get it, that wouldn't seem like a punk show to me either, sit down? interesting. not that those shows can't be fun but part of the appeal of a punk show is the moshing!! the floor, talking to folks seeing everyones outfit, bumping into people in crowded spaces and in bathrooms with graffiti up and down the walls, stalls, and mirrors.
I haven't heard much of Amyl and the Sniffers yet I should get more into them for sure. It's harder to get to Raleigh nowadays I moved back home and it's not far but I don't drive anymore. Ritz is a cool venue but that's for slightly bigger acts, I saw Descendents there and Death Grips
And yes that Rent Strike, the folk punk group
Quote from: Guybrush on May 03, 2025, 08:28 AMAt its best, I love punk's DIY attitude and gut instinct for what goes. I love the anti-authoritarianism and the challenging of the establishment. My favourite expressions of this is probably in the world of female punk bands. The Slits is a favourite of mine. They're fun, challenging, follow their instincts and made something nobody else could have made.
The punk movement to me, though I only felt close to it for a short while in a Southern Norwegian town in the 90s, seems to me largely a failure to its ideals. What should be solidarity became gatekeeping. What should be individual expression became uniformation, both in musical expression and in aesthetics. What should have been tolerance too often became flirting with fascism and right wing ideas.
When you're a kid, I think cynicism is seductive. It has a romantic component, like you're bitter with a world that has hurt you. I felt like this cynicism was very present in punk back then (and other youth cultures too), but I also do find it a little immature. A more mature insight is that we need to foster trust, solidarity with others and a social conscience. Gratitude towards eachother. The political left here understands this camaraderie very well and extends a hand to everyone, but I'm not sure punks here ever did.
I think there are other musical movements that were more successful when it came to upholding punk ideals. Take the bands related to comparatively small Rock In Opposition movement. It has the anti-authoritarianism. It challenges musical establishment as well as its listeners. It is ripe with individual expression. If or when it had a political leaning, it was to the left. The catch is that they were less appealing and less commercially viable.
it's funny that over time punk turned from anti-conformist to pressure to conform to "punk standards"! The most punk groups I feel that exist are ones that go against the grain or what's fashionable, or people who play into those archetypes in a subversive way. Cynicism I think fueled a lot within 80s punk spheres and knowing older punks it seems a lot of them have carried that over into adulthood. Ah well tho, I think the ideals still hold up, and that while not every punk or every scene is gonna be in line with togetherness and mutual aid, there are so many punks that are, and corners of society that punk/DIY has touched that otherwise aren't in touch with the music or those circles at all!
this song is amazing as well woah :0 i need to get into more RIO stuff!!!