Hell he's basically going to be Trump's vizier, innee? So we may as well have a thread dedicated to him, see what kind of totally weird shit he gets up to in the next few years. I do see the year started with a bang for him anyway! :laughing:
(https://img.rasset.ie/0021b9d2-500.jpg)
Oops!
(https://media.tenor.com/qGfsDX7kn0IAAAAM/elon-musk-people-are-so-men.gif)
"X" marks the spot.
Where his rocket crashed to earth.
search "thunderfoot elon muck" on YouTube
He's basically the president and Trump is Vice
(https://i.postimg.cc/nhKfS4ss/EMM.jpg)
Quote from: Trollheart on Jan 18, 2025, 02:25 AM"X" marks the spot.
Where his rocket crashed to earth.
X marks many spots. A lot of flights over the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean had to be diverted because of the falling debris.
QuoteSEC sues Musk: The SEC sued Elon Musk for delaying the disclosure of his 2022 Twitter stake, allegedly saving over $150M while misleading investors who sold at lower prices. Musk denies wrongdoing. Source: WSJ.
What makes a thread on here 'official'?
Been hassling me.
When it's in the title. :laughing:
I for one appreciate TH's conviction in designating this as the Official Elon thread; this makes a bold and firm statement that there's no purpose in making any more threads about him. :laughing:
We have to have an offical thread for all of Elon's antics? Shame on Elon. We have both an official and unofficial thread(s) dedicated to him? Shame on our forum.
Where is this unofficial Elon thread? Point it out to me, that I may, um, talk reasonably to it... :laughing: (Yes, yes, that will do!)
(https://media.tenor.com/k9f1p3CZiksAAAAM/gun-db-shotgun.gif)
The first lawsuit against DOGE, MUSK, Trump, and several others was filed minutes after he took the Oath of Office.
The filer Kel McClanahan, of National Security Counselors, is the go to guy for these types of suits, so this is not a frivolous suit.
https://www.nationalsecuritylaw.org (https://www.nationalsecuritylaw.org/)
Read the suit here.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.276600/gov.uscourts.dcd.276600.1.0.pdf (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.276600/gov.uscourts.dcd.276600.1.0.pdf)
At the party at the basketball arena, Musk while warming up the crowd gave two straight-armed salutes that some are comparing to Nazi-salutes (he recenctly endorsed AFD). Later when Trump was speaking he was not in the group of VIPs behind Trump. It is not known whether this was planned or otherwise.
https://x.com/Vorloe/status/1881431301460471972?t=hLt2zHQ-X4afwmGHb09FKg&s=19
https://x.com/iamgabesanchez/status/1881449341627551957?t=omW3maX9IR4K-TVsQw-lAg&s=19
Quote from: DJChameleon on Jan 21, 2025, 07:08 AMhttps://x.com/Vorloe/status/1881431301460471972?t=hLt2zHQ-X4afwmGHb09FKg&s=19
https://x.com/iamgabesanchez/status/1881449341627551957?t=omW3maX9IR4K-TVsQw-lAg&s=19
Yes :(
It's so strange. Why would someone do that if they didn't like.. play with fascism?
I worry that our modern, digital lives are removing social conscience and empathy from our brains and the future and its policies is just gonna see an increase in general selfishness.
Don't worry guys I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding. Surely the guy who posted all of this stuff wouldn't be doing Nazi salutes. And if he did, then it's just a joke bro. The left needs to get a sense of humor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hjNB76fR/leonmuck.png) (https://postimg.cc/YGNV5X6d)
The push back I see from the MAGAts are them posting pictures of other politicians that waved their hand then it looks like a salute. No you idiots. If you see video footage it's just a wave caught at the wrong time. This video footage shows it was intentional because of how aggressive he did it and the fact that he did it twice.
To me it definitely looks like an obvious nod to the extremely far right. I mean.. why else would you fist-thump your chest, then extend your arm at an upwards angle with fingers extended. And then do it again?
There's no other meaning tied to this particular movement, at least not in this former occupied country. If he'd done that in Germany, he would've persecuted. Prosecuted? One of those.
Of course he plays dumb now, but what else can he do.
At least three lawsuits have been filed against DOGE. Ramaswamy has announced he is running for Governor of Ohio.
Here's the latest WaPo headline.
QuoteElon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy's 'DOGE' vision broke down over deep philosophical differences
Putting the new "Department of Government Efficiency" inside a White House digital office could give Musk sweeping insight into government operations.
Business Insider and Atlantic links paywalled...
QuoteNot Fallen Far From the Tree? One of Musk's grandparents was arrested in Canada for being a member of "Technocracy Incorporated," a radical group that believed, among other things, that the world should be run by a cabal of technocratic authoritarians based in North America. This grandparent claimed that Hitler's rise to power was financed in part by Jews, whom he believed "created antisemitism to generate sympathy," according to an Atlantic profile.
Elon's just awkward because he has Nazbergers. Swastism, if you will.
He was just doing a stim heil.
Just realised his name is an anagram of lone skum. :laughing:
Quote from: Trollheart on Jan 28, 2025, 11:01 PMJust realised his name is an anagram of lone skum. :laughing:
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBtYTQL8/ES.jpg)
Elmo sunk
Sulk Omen
I have to drop one letter but it's too good to pass up: Us men, ok?
Oh, and Use monk.
Bloody L, ruins everthing. :(
Ok: Lemon suk
Door's this way, is it?
:shycouch:
K.O. Us L Men
Weirdly, One US MLK!
Not everything is going Musk's way these days. EV sales from most manufacturers were down in the EU in 24, but Tesla performed worse than the average. Sales in Germany were down 41%. In France in January 2025 sales dropped by 62% giving Tesla a market share of just 5.5%.
In California in 2024 sales dropped by 36%. He moved Tesla HQ from California to Texas, plus Space X and more, but due to opposition from the Texas Motor Dealers Association he's never been allowed to sell Tesla's in Texas.
Never imagined I'd be rooting for the Texas Motor Dealers...
Updated EU Tesla numbers for Jan. 2025.
Germany______-59.5%
UK___________-18.2%
France_______-63.4%
Netherlands__-42.5%
Norway_______-40.2%
Spain________-75.4%
Sweden_______-46.0%
Denmark______-40-9%
Portugal_____-31.0%
___________________
Total........-50.4%
Quote from: Buck_Mulligan on Feb 06, 2025, 02:30 AMUpdated EU Tesla numbers for Jan. 2025.
Germany______-59.5%
UK___________-18.2%
France_______-63.4%
Netherlands__-42.5%
Norway_______-40.2%
Spain________-75.4%
Sweden_______-46.0%
Denmark______-40-9%
Portugal_____-31.0%
___________________
Total........-50.4%
I love this ❤️
Fuck Elon Musk.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DwXJ4cQw/T-M.jpg)
"Come with me, if you wish to retain your job."
If not
"Hasta la vista, baby!"
Globally, Tesla sales were flat in 2024. China and RoW were positive US & EU were negative. In the US Tesla like for like sales were down 11.5%, but the addition of the cyber truck to the lineup kept the fall to 5%. In 24 US EV sales overall were up 7% to 1.3M and a market share of 8%.
2025 is off to a bad start for Tesla. As well as the EU numbers noted above, January sales in China are down 11.5%, California 12%.
In other Elon news...
QuoteDOGE employees have gained access to payment and contracting systems at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. (Wall Street Journal)
A federal judge issued an order Friday temporarily barring Musk from accessing U.S. Treasury payments data. (Financial Times)
DOGE employee Marko Elez, one of two DOGE members granted access to the Treasury's payment systems, has resigned after the discovery of a social media account he used to promote racism and eugenics. (Wall Street Journal)
There's a chance one of Musk's DOGE engineers, 19-year-old Edward Coristine, would not pass a federal background check under ordinary circumstances. Wired found that Coristine operates a site with a Russian web domain and worked at a tech startup that hired criminal hackers. (Wired)
Polling data from the Economist/YouGov found Republican views on Musk have soured since Trump took office. A survey released Wednesday shows 26% of Republicans want Musk to have "a lot" of influence on Trump, down from 47% when the same question was asked shortly after Trump's victory in November. (The Economist/YouGov)
NASA employees are concerned about the agency's ties to Musk's space exploration company SpaceX following the appointment of Michael Altenhofen, an engineer who spent the last 15 years working for the company. Altenhofen was named a senior advisor to the NASA Administrator. (ArsTechnica)
Musk wanted a non-U.S. citizen to work for DOGE but Trump officials put the kibosh on the idea, fearing the optics of using an immigrant to fire thousands of Americans. (The Atlantic)
DOGE does not want the public to know what it's doing, as evidenced by a 404 Media report on the outfit ordering its employees to stop using Slack as it transitions to a records system not subject to FOIA requests. (404 Media)
Finally, civil servants have informed CBS News that their personnel files were deleted following DOGE's takeover of the Office of Personnel Management's HR databases. The personnel files then suddenly reappeared. "I don't know whether any have been doctored — [it's] more likely that they're running all the documents through AI," one federal employee said. (CBS News/Jennifer Jacobs)
Perhaps this will turn out to be a marriage from Hell. Decide yourself who is who.
(https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Frankenstein-and-Doctor-Frankenstein.jpg)
Trump says Musk will review "just about" every federal agency (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-japanese-prime-minister-press-conference-2025-02-07/)
An investigation into how Musk is tweeting mis and disinformation, and outright lies. Big surprise.
https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2025/0209/1495442-musks-trump-era-tweets/
Quote from: Buck_Mulligan on Feb 06, 2025, 02:30 AMUpdated EU Tesla numbers for Jan. 2025.
Germany______-59.5%
UK___________-18.2%
France_______-63.4%
Netherlands__-42.5%
Norway_______-40.2%
Spain________-75.4%
Sweden_______-46.0%
Denmark______-40-9%
Portugal_____-31.0%
___________________
Total........-50.4%
When I posted this I didn't know that in January overall BEV sales in Germany were up 53% while Tesla was down 59%. And remember Tesla built it's giga factory in Germany.
It annoys me that anyone left of center is still using X.
Can you say SKYNET?
News Alert: Elon Musk leads offer to buy ChatGPT's parent company for nearly $100 billion
In a high-stakes bid that could reshape the future of artificial intelligence, Elon Musk is leading a group of investors that have offered to buy OpenAI, the parent company of ChatGPT, for $97.4 billion.
Musk has long feuded with Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI and he has filed a number of legal complaints against the company and Altman, claiming that the AI company and its leadership have misrepresented OpenAI as a philanthropy.
^^^ That might be an admission that "Grok from X.AI is not cutting the mustard.
More on the Musk/Altman issue. Open AI is registered as a non-profit which does not have "shareholders" and it wholly owns it's for profit subsidiary which develops ChatGPT and more. Altman has said that the non-profit parent is fairly valued at $40B. Then, why turn down $97B for a subsidiary? Because he believes the non-profit is worth more than $40B?
Turns out, Altman is negotiating investments in the for profit at a valuation of $360B. Informed opinion speculates that neither Musk or Altman care about the money, and Musk is just doing it to mess with Altman.
Sure why would he care? What does 97 Billion buy you these days? :laughing:
Some of the young wunderkinds that Musk has hired for DOGE have had interesting pasts. Although Wired doesn't mention it here, other reporting says this guy, and others have posted on, or had links to sites dealing in various racial and sexploitation matters.
QuoteA young technologist known online as "Big Balls," who works for Elon Musk's so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), has access to sensitive US government systems. But his professional and online history call into question whether he would pass the background check typically required to obtain security clearances, security experts tell WIRED.
Edward Coristine, a 19-year-old high school graduate, established at least five different companies in the last four years, with entities registered in Connecticut, Delaware, and the United Kingdom, most of which were not listed on his now-deleted LinkedIn profile. Coristine also briefly worked in 2022 at Path Network, a network monitoring firm known for hiring reformed blackhat hackers. Someone using a Telegram handle tied to Coristine also solicited a cyberattack-for-hire service later that year.
https://www.wired.com/story/edward-coristine-tesla-sexy-path-networks-doge/ (https://www.wired.com/story/edward-coristine-tesla-sexy-path-networks-doge/)
Separately:
QuoteA former intern at Musk's brain-computer interface company Neuralink, Coristine was named senior adviser to the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Technology on Monday, the Washington Post reported. He is also listed as an "expert" at the Office of Personnel Management.
In early 2021, Corisitine, then 16, activated the tesla.sexy website. He described it as an image-sharing site that would prioritize the confidentiality of its users. "Why are we the sexiest? Privacy... When you use tesla.sexy, all your images are encrypted. We do not log IP addresses, device agents or anything else," the site's homepage stated in March 2021, according to archives from the Wayback Machine. "If you like features like we do, you'll love tesla.sexy... Fake links, lots of cool domains and effects to put on your images for ultimate shitposting."
Edited to add:
QuoteOther young men that Musk has recruited to staff the White House's U.S. DOGE Service include Marko Elez, who resigned last week after the Wall Street Journal discovered a social media account he used to promote racism and eugenics. DOGE then rehired Elez at the behest of Musk and Vice President J.D. Vance. Gavin Kilger, a DOGE member who serves as a special advisor at the Office of Personnel Management and a domain administrator at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, shared content posted by white supremacist Nick Fuentes before joining the Trump administration, according to Reuters.
AI Chat (https://deepai.org/chat)
"Write some rap lyrics about Elon Musk being the Emperor of Mars"...
(Record scratch) Yo, check the mic, one two
(Verse 1)
From Pretoria to the stars, a cosmic hustle
PayPal days, now rockets breakin' every buckle
Elon Musk, the name ringin', galaxies he's slingin'
Earth's a beta test, Mars is where he's bringing
The future, the vision, the drive, the ambition
Forget the naysayers, they stuck in their position
He's building cities on the red dust, no permission
Emperor of Mars, a technocratic transmission.
(Chorus)
Yeah, Emperor Musk, crown forged in starlight
Rule the Martian plains, both day and stark night
Got rovers explorin', findin' ancient secrets
While Earth debates climate, he's plantin' future beacons.
Emperor Musk, a meme turned reality
From flamethrowers to Starlink, a digital totality
He's breakin' boundaries, beyond all limitations
Bow down, Earthlings, to the Martian stimulations!
(Verse 2)
Cybertrucks cruisin', through Valles Marineris
Colonists vibin', amidst the solar flares, yes!
He's speakin' binary, fluent in innovation
Terraforming the landscape, rewriting the creation.
Dodge the meteor showers, navigate the solar storms
Elon's got the answers, in automated forms.
He promised us a future, beyond this pale blue dot
Now Mars is the new frontier, whether you like it or not.
(Chorus)
Yeah, Emperor Musk, crown forged in starlight
Rule the Martian plains, both day and stark night
Got rovers explorin', findin' ancient secrets
While Earth debates climate, he's plantin' future beacons.
Emperor Musk, a meme turned reality
From flamethrowers to Starlink, a digital totality
He's breakin' boundaries, beyond all limitations
Bow down, Earthlings, to the Martian stimulations!
(Bridge)
Some say he's crazy, a power-hungry tycoon
But look at the progress, beneath the Martian moon.
He's pushin' the limits, of what we thought was sane
Building a dynasty, amongst the cosmic rain.
(Verse 3)
Neuralink is connectin', minds across the void
Emperor Musk's decree, can't be unemployed
Automated factories, pumpin' out the tech
While Earth is stuck in traffic, he's rockin' a cyberdeck.
He's got the solar panels, catchin' all the rays
Plannin' for the long term, through Martian days.
So raise a glass to Elon, the Emperor of the Red
He's building a new world, inside your head!
(Chorus)
Yeah, Emperor Musk, crown forged in starlight
Rule the Martian plains, both day and stark night
Got rovers explorin', findin' ancient secrets
While Earth debates climate, he's plantin' future beacons.
Emperor Musk, a meme turned reality
From flamethrowers to Starlink, a digital totality
He's breakin' boundaries, beyond all limitations
Bow down, Earthlings, to the Martian stimulations!
(Outro)
Word up! Elon Musk, Emperor of Mars! The future is now!
SpaceX forever!
(Mic drop)
I guess 50 Cent has nothing to worry about. ::)
Maybe Kanye can give him a feature on his next record?
(https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/768x768/public/d8/images/canvas/2022/10/21/2bfa8766-6980-4342-a33e-00a0b1e7bf7f_acccf746.jpg?itok=qKrF5f4E&v=1666347043)
What, "We Hate Jews and Kids in Wheelchairs"? :laughing:
Incidentally, why has Kanye never covered the Jackson 5? "Kanye Feel It, Kanye Feel It, Kanye Feel It?"
He never covered the Jackson 5, but he did sample "I Want You Back" for a Jay Z song 24 years ago, when no one even knew who Kanye was
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1890173376964313388?t=2T3holYT3CzUZXI7pwfJDQ&s=19
He thinks we live in a dictatorship. He needs to learn civics.
Quote from: DJChameleon on Feb 14, 2025, 04:02 AMhttps://x.com/elonmusk/status/1890173376964313388?t=2T3holYT3CzUZXI7pwfJDQ&s=19
He thinks we live in a dictatorship. He needs to learn civics.
For real. I wish he'd get deported.
QuoteWest Point - The U.S. Military Academy
Feb 5, 2025
QuoteKicking off Season 3, join us for an enlightening fireside chat on "Inside West Point: Ideas that Impact" with visionary entrepreneur Elon Musk. In this episode, Musk explores the intersection of advanced technology and modern warfare, focusing on the role of AI and drones in transforming the battlefield. He shares his insights on innovation, the existential risks of AI, and the future of autonomous systems in military operations. Musk's unique perspective offers invaluable lessons for military and industry leaders, and anyone interested in the future of warfare technology.
(This episode was created from Mr. Musk's visit to West Point in August, where he conducted a fireside chat with BG Shane Reeves as part of the Academy's launch of its newest annual theme, "The Human and The Machine: Leadership on The Emerging Battlefield." This year's theme aligns education with the future battlefield, preparing cadets for emerging challenges to ensure that our military is the most lethal and effective in the world.)
QuoteABC News
Feb 11, 2025
QuoteThe Tesla billionaire answered questions from reporters and defended the enormous power he and his Department of Government Efficiency have been given, saying it's "what democracy is all about."
QuoteCNBC Television
Jan 22, 2025
QuoteJPMorgan Chase chairman and CEO Jamie Dimon joins 'Squawk Box' to discuss the second Trump administration, why he's 'cautiously pessimistic' about the U.S. economy, impact of Trump's tariff proposals and EOs, state of the global markets, impact of the strong dollar, his relationship with Elon Musk, investing landscape, future of DEI in corporate America, his thoughts on the crypto industry, succession plans at JPMorgan, and more.
That's what democracy is all about?? Can someone buy that man an English dictionary?
Elon makes no secret of his heavy Ketamine use. Says his tolerance for it is "unlimited".
Here's how the DEA describes the effects on the body and mind.
QuoteMusk pooh-poohs his ketamine usage, but for the uninitiated, here is how the DEA describes the drug: "Ketamine produces hallucinations. It distorts perceptions of sight and sound and makes the user feel disconnected and not in control. Ketamine may cause unwanted side effects such as: agitation, depression, cognitive difficulties, unconsciousness, and amnesia. Involuntarily rapid eye movement, dilated pupils, salivation, tear secretions, and stiffening of the muscles, possible nausea."
https://cleantechnica.com/2025/02/15/tesla-troubles-mount-as-musk-goes-full-rogue/ (https://cleantechnica.com/2025/02/15/tesla-troubles-mount-as-musk-goes-full-rogue/)
Please let him overdose.
(https://i.ibb.co/sJ529LRh/bafkreidzsif6zkht2kzd2c4ve4dhifg3v7bo3dj24wfryn7ij47hb2gz4e.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kzdcc9bB/ESW.png)
"I don't really want to try to adhere to some CEO template"
(https://i.ibb.co/whsKng4S/479697638-18051859784126395-5958128364299055133-n.jpg)
Surprise surprise! Several news outlets have been reporting that claims made by DOGE about how much money they've saved so far don't add up. Different outlets are using different numbers but the general picture is the same.
QuoteWhoever is crunching the numbers for DOGE needs to check their math.
DOGE launched its "wall of receipts" database on its website Monday and claimed responsibility for canceling $55 billion in government spending. The largest item contributing to the total was an $8 billion contract for a diversity initiative paid for by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. But that was a typo. The real maximum value of the contract was $8 million. Only $2.5 million had been spent on it before its cancellation.
DOGE fudged the numbers in other ways to reach its $55 billion in claimed savings. From CNN:
QuoteA CNN review of contracting data showed that about two-thirds of the total claimed savings from contracts listed on the DOGE site came from taking the maximum amount that could possibly have been spent on so-called "indefinite delivery" contracts... The second-, third- and fourth-largest savings listed on the DOGE site came from three IDV contracts signed by the US Agency for International Development, or USAID, related to services for the agency's research office. Each contract lists a maximum ceiling value of $655 million. Since the contracts were signed in 2020, the government has only committed to spending about $55 million in total under all three of them over the last four and half years.
Cabinet Secretaries have complained to the WH that DOGE is not coordinating with them. Chief of Staff Suzie Wiles has told Musk to do better.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTjdFgjv/D.jpg)
"living the meme"
(https://i.gifer.com/92Ul.gif)
DOGE won't get broad access to IRS personal taxpayer info, agreement states (https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-broad-access-irs-personal-taxpayer-info-agreement/story?id=119060653)
Crazy that this guy's PR team once had the world convinced he was some sort of real life Tony Stark.
The only time it's acceptable for Elon Musk to say something as utterly cringe as "I am become meme" is in his suicide note.
Quote from: Auroras In Ice on Feb 24, 2025, 02:39 AMCrazy that this guy's PR team once had the world convinced he was some sort of real life Tony Stark.
Stark staring mad, yes.
People are now protesting outside Tesla showrooms. Tesla owners are expressing embarrassment. A Tesla subreddit has started a petition to have Elon removed as CEO. More to come, I hope.
Doesn't this whole Musk thing seem like the college kids and tech bros who got none and various incels are just now living the dream? Their leader has the power and the money, and they can do whatever the hell they want. It's like a big MMMORPG and the DM is Musk, except this time the game world is, well, the world. Well, America anyway.
Before it was DOGE it was USDS (Digital Services) with its own employees already in place. 21 of those have now resigned saying they don't wish to participate in the plunder.
Separately, 2024 Tesla sales for Europe overall were down 45% while other EV sales were up 37%. Suck on that, no wait!
'The Daily Show' accepts Musk's terms for interview with Stewart: 'We'd be delighted' (https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2025/02/27/elon-musk-daily-show-jon-stewart-doge/80669525007/)
This should be entertaining (if Elon doesn't puss out). :laughing:
(https://i.ibb.co/yFd0rqkm/a02f432a-e24a-4750-9bd1-a675fe6ba8fe.jpg)
Of course he doesn't list the white supremacy as one of the bad things about the nazis. And conveniently doesn't mention the reason for the genocides they committed.
Concerning!
They are now being called Nazimobiles...
QuoteNEARLY 300 GATHER TO PROTEST ELON MUSK AT TESLA DEALERSHIP: Nearly 300 protesters gathered outside the Tesla dealership in Owings Mills on Saturday, waving homemade signs as drivers slowly passed by beeping their horns in a show of support. Demonstrators gathered outside Tesla stores across the U.S. on Saturday to protest the automaker's billionaire CEO, Elon Musk, and his push to slash government spending on behalf of President Donald Trump. Eileen Holliday/The Baltimore Banner.
Tesla February sales in EU continue to decline down 43% YTD, Germany 70% YTD.
https://electrek.co/2025/03/05/tesla-tsla-sales-crash-continues-in-europe-with-germany-down-70/ (https://electrek.co/2025/03/05/tesla-tsla-sales-crash-continues-in-europe-with-germany-down-70/)
More bad news for Elon...Feb Chinese sales down 49%. BYD China BEV sales up 93%, Xpeng up 570%
The numbers are bit confusing because they don't always compare like with like, but I think I've adjusted them correctly. BEV to BEV, excluding NEV (hybrid). The headline says BYD up 160% but that includes NEV.
Tesla shares down 30% since December high.
https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/05/tesla-sales-in-china-tumble-49-in-february/ (https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/05/tesla-sales-in-china-tumble-49-in-february/)
https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/04/byd-new-energy-vehicle-sales-jump-161/ (https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/04/byd-new-energy-vehicle-sales-jump-161/)
Someone went by in a Tesla yesterday. I gave them the finger in my mind, then realised that was pretty stupid: it's not their fault. They probably bought the car long before all this started, and of course you can't assume every person who buys one of his cars is aligned with his views. Still, I'd be happy to see his company go out of business.
February Tesla sales in OZ down 72%
Canadian authorities are said to be looking into a claim for rebates by a Tesla branch just before incentives were terminated.
At face value the claim implies that the branch sold about 4,000 vehicles in one weekend. Oops!
Is Trump reining in Musk after a cabinet showdown with secretaries? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwd1722yr2o
In a heated debate, Trump supported the Cabinet leaders at the expense of Musk. I wonder how secure Musk's future is going to be? I have a feeling that once Trump has used Musk to do so much unpopular cutting back of Federal agencies, Trump may cut him lose. Here's my analogy for SGR: to Trump's way of thinking, the Federal agencies are like a dirty bum, which Trump has wiped clean with Elon Musk. But although toilet paper serves a useful purpose, nobody wants to keep it around after they're done with it.
If my theory is correct, we'll be seeing these headlines in quick succession:
Musk Relieved of All Responsibilities He Never Had.
Trump says he "hardly knew" Musk
Trump "never met" Musk: blames AI for photos of them together
Musk - "probably Antifa plant" to discredit Trump admin
(https://i.postimg.cc/HLMbxtkQ/TMW.jpg)
WaPo...
QuoteAnger at Elon Musk turns violent with molotov cocktails and gunfire at Tesla lots
More than a dozen violent or destructive acts have been directed at Tesla facilities since President Donald Trump's inauguration, according to court documents, surveillance photographs, police records and local media reports reviewed by The Washington Post. As Elon Musk has rocketed to prominence as Trump's best-known supporter, his electric vehicle company has faltered. Its stock has fallen by more than 35 percent since the inauguration on Jan. 20
https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1898468089970201085?t=GXPyKR_chMkpEtsqiA08Qg&s=19
Lol.
Quote from: Lisnaholic on Mar 08, 2025, 05:18 AMIs Trump reining in Musk after a cabinet showdown with secretaries? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwd1722yr2o
In a heated debate, Trump supported the Cabinet leaders at the expense of Musk. I wonder how secure Musk's future is going to be? I have a feeling that once Trump has used Musk to do so much unpopular cutting back of Federal agencies, Trump may cut him lose. Here's my analogy for SGR: to Trump's way of thinking, the Federal agencies are like a dirty bum, which Trump has wiped clean with Elon Musk. But although toilet paper serves a useful purpose, nobody wants to keep it around after they're done with it.
If my theory is correct, we'll be seeing these headlines in quick succession:
Musk Relieved of All Responsibilities He Never Had.
Trump says he "hardly knew" Musk
Trump "never met" Musk: blames AI for photos of them together
Musk - "probably Antifa plant" to discredit Trump admin
I wouldn't put too much stock into this little spat between Musk and Rubio (and/or other secretaries) myself. At least not in terms of it being a reliable or strong indicator that there is some fundamental dysfunction/division that will either only grow or get worse between Musk/Cabinet secretaries. Even within Trump's cabinet alone (without Musk), there are a fair number of people who have quite different ideas about government and how things should be done. RFK Jr, Gabbard, Bessent, Burgum, etc. Rubio himself I think comes from more of the neoconservative lineage of the GOP - downstream from Reagan (who he invoked every chance he had in the 2016 primaries) - the Paul Ryans, the John Boehners, etc. I'm surprised something like this didn't spring up earlier, to be honest. Musk has inevitably been an additional wrench thrown into the works that the Cabinet secretaries need to get done. Personality/ego clashes like this, at this level of governance seem due, and it's probably a good thing Rubio did it. Being the first is never easy, but now that Rubio has done it, that should be a confidence booster for other cabinet secretaries when they too feel they need to draw a line somewhere, especially because Trump has seemingly given them (and Rubio) his support in the matter.
Ultimately though, reading the article, it sounds like Trump wants the same goals to be achieved regardless, he's just deciding who gets priority in pulling away the government trough - and if the government trough doesn't get pulled, the next man up (Elon) will pull it regardless - in reality, maybe that buys the secretaries more say in who and what gets cut, but ultimately, the message seems to be "You better not show up with nothing to cut":
QuoteSpeaking in the Oval Office after the meeting, Trump said cabinet members should decide who to cut, but if they didn't, Musk would do the job.
"I had a meeting, and I said I want the cabinet members to go first", Trump said. "And if they can cut it's better, if they don't cut, then Elon will do the cutting."
I'm sure you know this, but DOGE is planned to be in place until (if memory serves) mid 2026. I'm guessing you're suggesting that Elon/DOGE will be discarded (sacraficed at the altar of political convenience) before that. I'd say it's possible, but only if the the popularity/approval of DOGE and the cuts tank before then. You mention 'unpopular cutting of Federal agencies', but right now, the measures still seem to be overall popular with a combined 56% of Republican/Democrat voters saying Elon/DOGE's influence over gov't spending should be 'some' or 'a lot' (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-elon-musk-government-workforce-cuts-opinion-poll-2025-03-02/):
(https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/2025/03/01/dc343e34-4dd9-48eb-88b9-5de39eeecf98/4-dogeinfluenceparty.png?v=63a2b43e2ef8917aa6bd547ca29dd4fa)
Numbers obviously could change - and if Elon/DOGE start going after & cutting people's entitlements, then I'd agree with you - they may ultimately need to be cut and discarded prematurely.
Knowing a bit about Elon's childhood, I have a somewhat unsubstantiated idea that Elon and Trump have a weird symbiotic relationship - the tip off was how much personal time Elon was spending at Mar-A-Lago after the election and interacting with Trump and his family (almost like he felt he belonged) - and I think this relationship is more emotional for Elon and more practical for Trump - but Elon had a neglectful childhood, specifically with his father. I think Elon sees Trump as a father figure he never really had - someone (who is right around his father's age) who has a grand platform to tell everyone how proud he is of Elon, and how smart and how great Elon is. Of course, it's just a theory, but a large driver of this for Elon could simply be that he really desires (because he never had it) that approval and 'attaboy' from an older father figure, which Trump is more than happy to provide as Elon helps advance his political goals.
saw graffiti the other day saying "Musk has your SSN"
the fact that there isn't greater backlash or chatter over this is deeply concerning
^ Yep, tristan ! To me, that lack of outrage illustrates the success of Bannon's "flood the zone" approach
*: there's just too much for US citizens to be outraged about.
(
* And shout-out again to Lexi for her correct prediction that Project 2025 would be implemented in a second Trump term.)
__________________________
Of course we're both guessing about the future, SGR, so Musk's political fortunes could go either way.
Thanks for the detailed info about Cabinets past and present - though I'm not so happy at your use of a term like "pulling away the government trough" as if you've bought into the propaganda that Federal workers are getting fat on a diet of waste, fraud and tax-payer dollars. Are there any stats about waste and fraud ? The cuts I hear about (park rangers, FAA, NOAA, etc.) will surely have the effect of making ordinary US lives less pleasant/safe, cranking up unemployment and perhaps triggering an economic recession - all those side effects suggesting that they weren't waste or fraud after all, but were valuable supports to the quality of life in the USA. Actually, the process of cutting away useful, even essential services, then trying to reinstate them has been the only waste of govt funds that I've heard about recently.
I'm also not entirely happy about your reading of those popularity statistics:
Quote from: SGR on Mar 09, 2025, 10:14 PMYou mention 'unpopular cutting of Federal agencies', but right now, the measures still seem to be overall popular with a combined 56% of Republican/Democrat voters saying Elon/DOGE's influence over gov't spending should be 'some' or 'a lot' (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-elon-musk-government-workforce-cuts-opinion-poll-2025-03-02/):
(https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/2025/03/01/dc343e34-4dd9-48eb-88b9-5de39eeecf98/4-dogeinfluenceparty.png?v=63a2b43e2ef8917aa6bd547ca29dd4fa)
If we read from the top, enthusiastic, "
a lot" line of the table, the 56 there is actually 56 votes out of 200, which is really
28% For the sake of my argument, it suits me to leave aside the fudgey "some/not much" lines and focus on:-
The bottom, "
none" line of the table, which shows 60 votes out of 200, or
30% So my take away from those stats is that the legally non-existent DOGE and the unelected Musk are already not particularly popular, even though the full impact of their cuts has barely begun to hit America.
( And also, thanks for the insight into those Trump/Musk childhoods; I'll leave you to imagine how much sympathy I have for those poor little rich boys. ;) )
Quote from: Lisnaholic on Mar 10, 2025, 12:23 AMThanks for the detailed info about Cabinets past and present - though I'm not so happy at your use of a term like "pulling away the government trough" as if you've bought into the propaganda that Federal workers are getting fat on a diet of waste, fraud and tax-payer dollars. Are there any stats about waste and fraud ? The cuts I hear about (park rangers, FAA, NOAA, etc.) will surely have the effect of making ordinary US lives less pleasant/safe, cranking up unemployment and perhaps triggering an economic recession - all those side effects suggesting that they weren't waste or fraud after all, but were valuable supports to the quality of life in the USA. Actually, the process of cutting away useful, even essential services, then trying to reinstate them has been the only waste of govt funds that I've heard about recently.
In a general sense, I do support the elimination of wasteful or unnecessary government spending subsidized by our tax dollars. I see how you could read the phraseology I used about a government trough negatively in context against federal workers as that's what the Trump quote appears to have been talking about specifically. My mistake, I didn't mean it that way, as I don't think federal workers are really the problem. I used that term because I know there is wasteful government spending more generally, there has been for years, and almost certainly there will be after Trump and Elon are gone. We saw it very recently with COVID relief (and this is something both the Trump and Biden admin should carry the blame for):
The Great Grift: How billions in COVID-19 relief aid was stolen or wasted (https://apnews.com/article/pandemic-fraud-waste-billions-small-business-labor-fb1d9a9eb24857efbe4611344311ae78)
QuoteFraudsters used the Social Security numbers of dead people and federal prisoners to get unemployment checks. Cheaters collected those benefits in multiple states. And federal loan applicants weren't cross-checked against a Treasury Department database that would have raised red flags about sketchy borrowers.
Criminals and gangs grabbed the money. But so did a U.S. soldier in Georgia, the pastors of a defunct church in Texas, a former state lawmaker in Missouri and a roofing contractor in Montana.
All of it led to the greatest grift in U.S. history, with thieves plundering billions of dollars in federal COVID-19 relief aid intended to combat the worst pandemic in a century and to stabilize an economy in free fall.
An Associated Press analysis found that fraudsters potentially stole more than $280 billion in COVID-19 relief funding; another $123 billion was wasted or misspent. Combined, the loss represents 10% of the $4.2 trillion the U.S. government has so far disbursed in COVID relief aid.
That number is certain to grow as investigators dig deeper into thousands of potential schemes.
And if we're talking about Musk leaving his post
prematurely (nudge nudge, wink wink), one possibility for that is if he and Trump gather the will and intestinal fortitude to audit and make cuts at the Pentagon. There are some hints (https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhartung/2025/02/19/will-doge-bring-real-change-to-the-pentagon/) that certain actions might be taken, but I highly doubt it will be anything significant. Ever since the Pentagon became required to undergo yearly audits in 2018, it has failed the audits every time (meaning: "Aw shucks, we dunno where that money coulda gone") - it failed it's seventh audit in a row last November (https://econofact.org/factbrief/has-the-pentagon-failed-its-7th-audit-in-a-row). This whole ordeal, and much of what DOGE has pointed out thus far really reinforces a different point about government finances and accounting - it is highly layered and complex, and very difficult to trace (RealClearInvestigations had a good article about this recently (https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2025/03/03/doges_key_revelation_a_federal_budget_made_into_a_maze_impervious_to_reform_1093963.html)). The accounting is like a maze, and there is suggestion that this is by design as no one person benefits from it being simple and straightforward. If someone were to tell you: "Oh yeah, in Pennsylvania, there are over 700 government workers operating 230 feet underground in an old limestone mine to process thousands of federal retirement claims by hand and paper, storing them in manilla envelopes. You gotta use an old mine shaft elevator to bring them the retirement claims", you might think: "Come off it, that can't be true", but turns out it is (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elon-musk-retirement-mine/). Certainly not the most efficient or cost-effective way to achieve this task, I'd imagine.
Part of the question, as you point out, is what truly is wasteful/unnecessary spending and what is not. And what's more, what Elon/DOGE have claimed as savings have been somewhat of a shifting goal post (certain line items on the DOGE site have appeared, but then subsequently disappeared - possibly because either the numbers needed to be recalculated, or the cancellation of the funding/contract/etc. that was originally planned was ultimately cancelled).
I'm not suggesting fraud either, as to my knowledge, nothing truly fraudulent has been proved out by DOGE. If you remember, we discussed Musk's claims about social security 'fraud' in some or other thread, and I provided a rather long-winded explanation for why I believed that he/DOGE completely missed the mark in terms of the 'evidence' they were trying to use to bolster their claims. I don't think everything Musk/DOGE identify/cut will truly be 'wasteful spending' either, as a simple matter of statistical likelihood - inversely, I don't think that the government is so well run and straight-laced that Musk/DOGE won't be able to find wasteful spending to cut. To your point though, they're somewhat lacking a big keystone accomplishment thus far - as much of the savings are from contract cancellations and employee firings. One could argue some wasteful spending was stopped with the gutting of USAID - but if you view USAID as a utility for international soft power, instead of simply a benevolent charity outreach, you could argue that most of it was not wasteful.
Quote from: Lisnaholic on Mar 10, 2025, 12:23 AMI'm also not entirely happy about your reading of those popularity statistics:
If we read from the top, enthusiastic, "a lot" line of the table, the 56 there is actually 56 votes out of 200, which is really 28%
For the sake of my argument, it suits me to leave aside the fudgey "some/not much" lines and focus on:-
The bottom, "none" line of the table, which shows 60 votes out of 200, or 30%
So my take away from those stats is that the legally non-existent DOGE and the unelected Musk are already not particularly popular, even though the full impact of their cuts has barely begun to hit America.
Well yeah, if you ignore half the quartiles of the data and then focus on one of them, it obviously would suit your argument better. :laughing: But I don't think that's a very fair reading of the data. My 56% didn't just come from combining the top line either. It came from the
top two lines, as I mentioned - "some" or "a lot":
(17 + 39) + (14 + 42) = 112
112/200 =
0.56 / 56%Call it 'fudgey' if you will, but there are a lot of people who think Elon/DOGE serve a useful purpose, but want their influence on gov't spending to find a comfortable middle ground. So 56% overall who either tepidly or fully support it.
As you mention though, the future is uncertain. It doesn't feel like it, but we're only a little over a month into Trump 2/DOGE. Those numbers can (and likely will) look quite different in a year from now when we'll be only 3 months away from the planned termination point for DOGE (assuming it lasts that long). He could, as you say, cut things that make average Americans feel the pain and the numbers will dip. Or, he could get that keystone accomplishment and find some big example of wasteful gov't spending to cut, and the numbers could climb. I guess we'll see.
Thanks for your long, measured and prompt reply, SGR :thumb:
Quote from: SGR on Mar 10, 2025, 04:22 AMI used that term because I know there is wasteful government spending more generally, there has been for years, and almost certainly there will be after Trump and Elon are gone. We saw it very recently with COVID relief (and this is something both the Trump and Biden admin should carry the blame for):
^ I appreciate that piece of realism about government spending - that it is so vast that it is all but impossible to avoid waste and fraud. The case of the covid benefits paid out is enough to make a tax-payer weep I imagine. In mitigation, it was an unprecedented, hastily put together scheme that required implementation really fast. Even so, a little more cross-checking of claimants could've been built into the system of payouts I imagine.
As for those federal workers underground in Pennsylvania, that's a curious story which is enough to raise anybody's eyebrows. Thanks for sharing it. Unfortunately, I don't have a specific detail to recount, but it reminded me of mis-spent funds (UK and USA) during WWII: eye-watering mismanagement of men and materials, or elaborate contingency plans that were put in place but never needed - something unavoidable given the unpredictability of how a war, or even a battle, might unfold.
QuotePart of the question, as you point out, is what truly is wasteful/unnecessary spending and what is not. And what's more, what Elon/DOGE have claimed as savings have been somewhat of a shifting goal post (certain line items on the DOGE site have appeared, but then subsequently disappeared - possibly because either the numbers needed to be recalculated, or the cancellation of the funding/contract/etc. that was originally planned was ultimately cancelled).
I'm not suggesting fraud either, as to my knowledge, nothing truly fraudulent has been proved out by DOGE. If you remember, we discussed Musk's claims about social security 'fraud' in some or other thread, and I provided a rather long-winded explanation for why I believed that he/DOGE completely missed the mark in terms of the 'evidence' they were trying to use to bolster their claims. I don't think everything Musk/DOGE identify/cut will truly be 'wasteful spending' either, as a simple matter of statistical likelihood - inversely, I don't think that the government is so well run and straight-laced that Musk/DOGE won't be able to find wasteful spending to cut. To your point though, they're somewhat lacking a big keystone accomplishment thus far - as much of the savings are from contract cancellations and employee firings. One could argue some wasteful spending was stopped with the gutting of USAID - but if you view USAID as a utility for international soft power, instead of simply a benevolent charity outreach, you could argue that most of it was not wasteful.
^ Yep, you explain my misgivings about DOGE better than I could myself ! Copying what I've heard on mainstream media, DOGE should have been using a scalpel, not a chainsaw - and another disastrous mistake was for Musk to pre-announce how they would save $2 trillion before they even started. How does someone with supposed business acumen make such a hard-to-achieve claim in advance?!
Oh, wait a minute, Musk did it about his supposedly bullet-proof Cybertruck too! Oh well, bullet-proof or not, the US govt has plans to buy $400 million pounds' worth of "armored" Cybertrucks, so I guess that's their problem now: https://www.npr.org/2025/02/24/nx-s1-5305269/tesla-state-department-elon-musk-trump
...and that's one potential piece of govt waste that DOGE will not be axing, I suspect.
QuoteWell yeah, if you ignore half the quartiles of the data and then focus on one of them, it obviously would suit your argument better. :laughing: But I don't think that's a very fair reading of the data. My 56% didn't just come from combining the top line either. It came from the top two lines, as I mentioned - "some" or "a lot":
(17 + 39) + (14 + 42) = 112
112/200 = 0.56 / 56%
Call it 'fudgey' if you will, but there are a lot of people who think Elon/DOGE serve a useful purpose, but want their influence on gov't spending to find a comfortable middle ground. So 56% overall who either tepidly or fully support it.
^ Yes, I must apologize for how I tried to manipulate those numbers, making it look like you made a mistake when you hadn't. Thanks for not taking offense. You are quite right when you say, at the end of your post, that the best policy is to wait and see how the popularity figures look in a year's time.
Just want to point out, as I know it was simply a slip of the typing finger, Lexi identifies as she/her/hers,
@Lisnaholic but you accidentally referred to her idea as "his". I'm sure she understands, but given how delicate everything is with her now, I'm not saying she'd take offence (she wouldn't; too nice for that and she knows you) but correcting the pronoun would be a nice gesture.
^ Thanks for pointing that out, Trollheart ! Yes, my mistake, and I have just gone back and edited as you suggested.
My apologies, Lexi, for making that mistake. I hope/I'm sure that, as TH says, you are too nice to take offence where none was intended.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Rq5vZXbX/EoM.png)
Musk says first mission to Mars will launch next year (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2g88y52y8o)
If that's the Moon why is it red? :laughing: More pictures from the private world of Elon Musk?
https://x.com/TheFl0orIsLaVa/status/1904259595419181399?t=phSkdh27xQoY4cNh0L1l-Q&s=19
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The Emperor & The King...
(https://i.postimg.cc/fT1gtWmF/E-K.png)