Let's go then. We've all seen reports of crimes which are so heinous that we must have thought (I know I did) that guy/girl should have been put to death. Is there a case for the death penalty being brought back (assuming it's not already in your country/state) for certain crimes? It may not bring back the victims but surely in certain cases it can prevent further ones falling to the killer/rapist/whatever? I know it's a thorny issue, and that's why I thought after reading this that it might be a subject worth discussing. Is jail, no matter how long, good enough in this case? I'm certain there are others, but this one seems so damned evil that even rotting in jail for the rest of their lives seems poor punishment.
Man and woman jailed after rape and abuse of their children (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/0313/1361938-child-abuse-sentencing/?at_medium=email&at_emailtype=retention&at_campaign=website&at_creation=News%20Newsletter%20&at_link=Automated%20Newsletter&at_recipient_list=2&at_send_date=20230313)
Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 14, 2023, 10:01 PMLet's go then. We've all seen reports of crimes which are so heinous that we must have thought (I know I did) that guy/girl should have been put to death. Is there a case for the death penalty being brought back (assuming it's not already in your country/state) for certain crimes? It may not bring back the victims but surely in certain cases it can prevent further ones falling to the killer/rapist/whatever? I know it's a thorny issue, and that's why I thought after reading this that it might be a subject worth discussing. Is jail, no matter how long, good enough in this case? I'm certain there are others, but this one seems so damned evil that even rotting in jail for the rest of their lives seems poor punishment.
Man and woman jailed after rape and abuse of their children (https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/0313/1361938-child-abuse-sentencing/?at_medium=email&at_emailtype=retention&at_campaign=website&at_creation=News%20Newsletter%20&at_link=Automated%20Newsletter&at_recipient_list=2&at_send_date=20230313)
I believe prison can do this also?
I'm against the death penalty, for a number of reasons. Miscarriages of justice being a big one and also I don't think the state should kill anyone.
I would be fine with the state killing those people if they did what they are accused of. But you never know, maybe they're innocent!
What do you mean? There's no such thing as a miscarriage of justice! :laughing: Oh, you must mean when the judge gets on the wrong bus!
Seriously, of course Irish people have been on the wrong end of British justice - Birmingham Six, Guildford Four etc - and you can't exactly say sorry if someone's been executed. But in cases where the guilt is either without question or a confession has been made, and the crime is evil enough, maybe. I don't know myself: obviously there are serious issues to be addressed, but when you think of some of the people imprisoned today in places that are, well, not exactly hell-holes, and how you struggle to call that justice... I don't know.
I think my attitude is similar to yours. Like I have no real moral problem with them executing let's say Saddam Hussein because it's pretty clear he's guilty of more than enough to be deserving of death. I assume it's just not that easy or plausible to come up with a way to allow the death penalty only in cases that leave no reasonable room for doubt. Like I can look at an individual case like Dylan roof and say they got him on video leaving, he confessed, etc. It seems clear as day to me he did it and I would bet my life on it. I just dunno how you could objectively judge which cases fall into that category. And the way our justice system functions, it has to be somewhat impersonal and governed by rules that apply to everyone. I'm just not so sure which criteria I could construct which would reliably distinguish criminals who I am fine with killing vs those I'm not.
Death penalty, to me, is a very difficult moral dilemma. I generally don't think the state should kill, but I can see various arguments both for and against.
I think we have a good example of when death penalty could have had the most desirable consequences here in Norway when Anders Behring Breivik exploded a bomb in Oslo in 2012 and then proceeded to attack the Worker's Youth Leage summer camp. He killed 69 people in total, 33 of them under the age of 18. It was heinous and has tragically touched the lives of many people. There's no doubt about who did it. Keeping him facilitated and the constant work for the courts with their lawyers etc. is costly. Needless to say, the Norwegian law, penal and court systems had never seen anything like this before and were not prepared beforehand on how to deal with it. It is based on rehabilitation and is relatively lenient on punishment, but the idea of ABB ever being back on the streets makes the mind reel. If someone's killed 70 people and blew things up, I'd say it's extremely unlikely they could ever rehabilitate and they should not suddenly be back walking the streets one day. You could argue that if the Norwegian state had just executed ABB, it would've been cheaper and less work and perhaps would've brought a sense of justice and closure to many people. It might have been preferable even to ABB - who knows? He was on a suicide mission and prepared to "die by cop".
But put into system, you of course run the risk of executing innocent people and it can be used as an extreme tool of oppression. We might all feel a little safer if we agree it's a power the state should not have over its citizens, inside the penal system or elsewhere. I also think death penalty, even when applied in a way that may be considered "right", may be or should be less about the criminals and more about us and the values that we want to uphold and the consequences that derive from that. I think abolishing violence and valuing human lives is very valuable to society and important steps towards creating a society where a death penalty is not needed because people, despite having the opportunity to do so, do not opt for violence and murder. This is the sort of society I'd like to be a part of - a society where people are not criminal - not because they're scared or forced away from it, but because there's no need to and it just doesn't figure to them. They don't choose criminality and they believe that violence and murder is wrong. In order to get there, I do believe the state should strive to present as somewhat of a paragon in terms of these values.
Cases like ABB will come and test the system. Keeping them alive is part of the cost of upholding the aforementioned values. I generally think it's worth it, but I can imagine far more violent societies (perhaps in our distant past) where a system incorporating death penalty would probably have the best consequences.
Having the death penalty for the most heinous and depraved murderers, doesn't bother me in the slightest as long as there is 100% certainty that the convicted murderer was guilty of committing the crime.
Tore makes a great point about ABB. Someone like that is never going to rehabilitate, and if they should somehow ever get out (whether that's parole, liberal "bleeding hearts and artists", to quote Roger, or escape, the chances are he would kill again. There have been countless, sadly, cases of men (mostly I guess men) being either released on parole or let out early who killed again. You can't use a three-strikes system of course - you've killed twice, now don't do it again or we'll kill you - but in cases where the guilt has been satisfactorily established or a confession is obtained, maybe a panel could be convened to look at all the evidence and see if there is in fact any room for doubt. If there isn't, and no remorse has been shown, then if the likelihood of them re-offending is high, it might be an argument for, as Spock says, the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few, or the one. Nobody wants anyone executed in error, but if you think of all those who have died, been raped, abused etc by men who were back out on the streets when they should not have been...
There are so many things to look at when it comes to the death penalty. In the US, even in the red states where it remains popular, the condemned is entitled to appeals that can last for years. To say the least, that's a fairly costly process.
I personally oppose the death penalty for three reasons really. For one, who are we to say who lives and who dies? Like Tore says, it's a moral dilemma. For two, what if we end up killing the wrong person? At least if he/she is in prison, it can be rectified somewhat. You can't bring someone back from the dead.
And, finally, there is the thought that maybe you're not really punishing the condemned at all, just putting him out of his misery. When Maryland had the death penalty (rarely used but used nonetheless), there was a character named John Thanos, who brutally murdered a family on the Eastern Shore just so he could be put to death. Essentially, it was suicide by mass murder but even that took years until the execution took place, Maryland being a state not really into the death penalty (since repealed), and the appeals being automatic despite the protests from Thanos.
Anyway, unless you live in Texas or Florida, it isn't easy getting executed.
Quote from: Jwb on Mar 15, 2023, 03:31 AMI would be fine with the state killing those people if they did what they are accused of. But you never know, maybe they're innocent!
Well some of them are innocent.
The Birmingham Six would all be dead if we had the death penalty.
And the Guildford Four. All very true.
But then take the Yorkshire Ripper. A man of no morals whatever, who does not in any way regret his crimes and if let out would do the same thing most likely. Is it right that he puts the burden of keeping him alive on the British taxpayer?
There's a line in one of Dean Koontz's novels (yes I know it's fiction but there's a kernel of truth here) where a father, a convicted serial killer, ruminates to his son about what will happen if he goes back to prison. "I'll probably paint a little, read, maybe get involved in some other hobby. Maybe be released from time to time to help the police with this or that case (you'd have to read the book to understand, but kind of think of a Hannibal Lecter sort of deal) and catch up on my writing." I mean, yes again I know it's fiction but it hardly sounds like punishment, does it? (In case you're wondering, the son shoots him dead).
I would of course be singing a different tune if I had been framed for murder and knew I was innocent, and there are no doubt thousands or even hundreds of thousands of innocent men and women in prisons all over the world, but there are also ones which are clearly guilty and have no remorse. It's however a good point Rubber Soul makes, that if you're just granting the request of the prisoner, is it even then punishment? Look at Gary Gilmore.
Peter Sutcliffe is dead now, died a while back, think it was from Covid. But I take your point.
Is it right, well I'd rather pay for his upkeep than have someone innocent killed. There's no point saying "well what if you had 100% proof" because people in charge could still make mistakes and I don't trust it to not be abused at some point.
Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 15, 2023, 09:10 AMDeath penalty, to me, is a very difficult moral dilemma. I generally don't think the state should kill, but I can see various arguments both for and against.
I think we have a good example of when death penalty could have had the most desirable consequences here in Norway when Anders Behring Breivik exploded a bomb in Oslo in 2012 and then proceeded to attack the Worker's Youth Leage summer camp. He killed 69 people in total, 33 of them under the age of 18. It was heinous and has tragically touched the lives of many people. There's no doubt about who did it. Keeping him facilitated and the constant work for the courts with their lawyers etc. is costly. Needless to say, the Norwegian law, penal and court systems had never seen anything like this before and were not prepared beforehand on how to deal with it. It is based on rehabilitation and is relatively lenient on punishment, but the idea of ABB ever being back on the streets makes the mind reel. If someone's killed 70 people and blew things up, I'd say it's extremely unlikely they could ever rehabilitate and they should not suddenly be back walking the streets one day. You could argue that if the Norwegian state had just executed ABB, it would've been cheaper and less work and perhaps would've brought a sense of justice and closure to many people. It might have been preferable even to ABB - who knows? He was on a suicide mission and prepared to "die by cop".
But put into system, you of course run the risk of executing innocent people and it can be used as an extreme tool of oppression. We might all feel a little safer if we agree it's a power the state should not have over its citizens, inside the penal system or elsewhere. I also think death penalty, even when applied in a way that may be considered "right", may be or should be less about the criminals and more about us and the values that we want to uphold and the consequences that derive from that. I think abolishing violence and valuing human lives is very valuable to society and important steps towards creating a society where a death penalty is not needed because people, despite having the opportunity to do so, do not opt for violence and murder. This is the sort of society I'd like to be a part of - a society where people are not criminal - not because they're scared or forced away from it, but because there's no need to and it just doesn't figure to them. They don't choose criminality and they believe that violence and murder is wrong. In order to get there, I do believe the state should strive to present as somewhat of a paragon in terms of these values.
Cases like ABB will come and test the system. Keeping them alive is part of the cost of upholding the aforementioned values. I generally think it's worth it, but I can imagine far more violent societies (perhaps in our distant past) where a system incorporating death penalty would probably have the best consequences.
norway does a good job of protecting the public while minimizing human suffering of the incarcerated which minimizes the amount of human suffering in total which is a pretty good metric that indicates your country is doing a good job - nothing is perfect
in america i'm officially against the death penalty but it's a low priority compared to prison reform in general and seeing to it that the poor have equal access to justice from arrest to sentencing to time spent incarcerated
but when florida executes someone i generally don't care
in alabama they mess it up half the time
the electric chair, lethal injection, and the gas chamber are all stupidly complicated
a simple hanging is fine or if the person prefers an OUTDOOR firing squad - they actually use rifles to kill people tied to chairs infoors - that strikes me as very poor taste from a theatrical pov
i support public executions mainly because i think it would be very entertaining but faucault argued convincingly that doing it publicly delegitimizes the state and encourages insurrection
many people in american prisons want to die and suicide watch is a big part of the incarceration budget
at least let them have their way -
he died in 2008
wow his stuff is aging well
Quote from: Dreams on Mar 15, 2023, 07:53 PMhe died in 2008
wow his stuff is aging well
The good stuff is always timeless.
Quote from: Psy-Fi on Mar 15, 2023, 08:07 PMQuote from: Dreams on Mar 15, 2023, 07:53 PMhe died in 2008
wow his stuff is aging well
The good stuff is always timeless.
with stand up i'm not sure i agree
Tore, I don't know how true to life it is, but I watched one of those Scandi-dramas (can't remember which one) and the guy was in prison in Norway. It looked, to be honest, like a small, poorly-furnished apartment he was in. No bars, no guards, just like maybe a cheap holiday villa, and he commented on the lack of, for want of another word, brutality in the Norwegian system. Surely we're not to assume that ABB is held under these conditions? And even if that's not the case, does this bear any resemblance to the Norwegian penal system? Cos if it does it seems not only lenient but positively accommodating.
Quote from: jimmy jazz on Mar 15, 2023, 04:36 PMQuote from: Jwb on Mar 15, 2023, 03:31 AMI would be fine with the state killing those people if they did what they are accused of. But you never know, maybe they're innocent!
Well some of them are innocent.
The Birmingham Six would all be dead if we had the death penalty.
Yeah well my comment might have sounded satcastic but i agree. That's my role point. I'm theoretically fine with certain people being executed i just don't trust them to only execute the right people.
Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 15, 2023, 09:10 AMDeath penalty, to me, is a very difficult moral dilemma. I generally don't think the state should kill, but I can see various arguments both for and against.
I think we have a good example of when death penalty could have had the most desirable consequences here in Norway when Anders Behring Breivik exploded a bomb in Oslo in 2012 and then proceeded to attack the Worker's Youth Leage summer camp. He killed 69 people in total, 33 of them under the age of 18. It was heinous and has tragically touched the lives of many people. There's no doubt about who did it. Keeping him facilitated and the constant work for the courts with their lawyers etc. is costly. Needless to say, the Norwegian law, penal and court systems had never seen anything like this before and were not prepared beforehand on how to deal with it. It is based on rehabilitation and is relatively lenient on punishment, but the idea of ABB ever being back on the streets makes the mind reel. If someone's killed 70 people and blew things up, I'd say it's extremely unlikely they could ever rehabilitate and they should not suddenly be back walking the streets one day. You could argue that if the Norwegian state had just executed ABB, it would've been cheaper and less work and perhaps would've brought a sense of justice and closure to many people. It might have been preferable even to ABB - who knows? He was on a suicide mission and prepared to "die by cop".
But put into system, you of course run the risk of executing innocent people and it can be used as an extreme tool of oppression. We might all feel a little safer if we agree it's a power the state should not have over its citizens, inside the penal system or elsewhere. I also think death penalty, even when applied in a way that may be considered "right", may be or should be less about the criminals and more about us and the values that we want to uphold and the consequences that derive from that. I think abolishing violence and valuing human lives is very valuable to society and important steps towards creating a society where a death penalty is not needed because people, despite having the opportunity to do so, do not opt for violence and murder. This is the sort of society I'd like to be a part of - a society where people are not criminal - not because they're scared or forced away from it, but because there's no need to and it just doesn't figure to them. They don't choose criminality and they believe that violence and murder is wrong. In order to get there, I do believe the state should strive to present as somewhat of a paragon in terms of these values.
Cases like ABB will come and test the system. Keeping them alive is part of the cost of upholding the aforementioned values. I generally think it's worth it, but I can imagine far more violent societies (perhaps in our distant past) where a system incorporating death penalty would probably have the best consequences.
and from what i hear, prisons in norway are better than a lot of mid-tier hotels in the US. That fuckin nazi is living the life.
But yeah, instinctively i feel like people like that should be killed. But if I'm being perfectly honest, that's not based on rehabilitation to me. Like the part of me who thinks he should be killed would still want him dead even if he reformed. Too little too late.
i'm not for rehabilitation or punishment
if i'm not wearing my anarchist hat i just want people removed in the interest of public safety
it's crazy in america a twenty year old serves 15 years - so he's cut loose at 35 - what's he going to do?
To me that sounds like you are in fact primarily concerned with rehabilitation. Aka the likelihood of recitivism is what you are most concerned with.
Quote from: Jwb on Mar 16, 2023, 05:18 AMTo me that sounds like you are in fact primarily concerned with rehabilitation. Aka the likelihood of recitivism is what you are most concerned with.
i dislike rehabilitation because it feels like creepy state sponsored brainwashing
permanently incarcerated and dead people have 0% recidivism
also isnt it kind of weird for you to tell me what i'm concerned with
there's no easy answer but like i said norway has the right idea - i don't care if a mass murderer enjoys some comfort
i'm not interested in punitive measures
just don't release him
@Trollheart yep, a Norwegian prison might look like an apartment complex. You're supposed to take courses, perhaps see health professionals, etc.
The penal system should reduce crime, so if you have prisons that teach people how to be more criminal than they were, that could of course increase crime. The only way to avoid that in that case would be holding people for much longer. Prisons may become Hogwarts of crime and the penal system an endless spiral that traps you.
All that is much more costly to society, so the consequences of a more punishment minded system may be kinda stupid. I believe rehab is the way to go and think the science supports that (if you're after good consequences).
I do believe ABB spends his time more in something like a solitary cell, but he might f ex. have a tv and an Xbox for all I know.
Quote from: Dreams on Mar 15, 2023, 08:40 PMQuote from: Psy-Fi on Mar 15, 2023, 08:07 PMQuote from: Dreams on Mar 15, 2023, 07:53 PMhe died in 2008
wow his stuff is aging well
The good stuff is always timeless.
with stand up i'm not sure i agree
Yeah, I guess it would depend on the subject matter in the routine. Some of it might be timeless but some of it is going to be dated for sure.
See that's the problem as I see it. Someone like ABB is never going to rehabilitate or change his ways: that kind of inbuilt, perhaps even hereditary hatred (I don't know the details of his family so I could be wrong, but where else do such ideas form? Maybe he got in with a right-wing crowd, who knows?) is so deep that he probably can't even see it's wrong. If he can't see that, he'll never change, and if he gets out he will do it again, or try to. It boils my blood to think of him essentially living in an apartment with mod cons after having perpetrated - surely - Norway's worst serial murder in history. Where is the justice in that? I also agree with jwb: to hell with rehabilitation in cases like his. Call it revenge, call it whatever you want, I think the guy should die for his actions. I wonder how many of the relatives of those he killed would be happy that he is where he is?
Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 16, 2023, 01:18 PMSee that's the problem as I see it. Someone like ABB is never going to rehabilitate or change his ways: that kind of inbuilt, perhaps even hereditary hatred (I don't know the details of his family so I could be wrong, but where else do such ideas form? Maybe he got in with a right-wing crowd, who knows?) is so deep that he probably can't even see it's wrong. If he can't see that, he'll never change, and if he gets out he will do it again, or try to. It boils my blood to think of him essentially living in an apartment with mod cons after having perpetrated - surely - Norway's worst serial murder in history. Where is the justice in that? I also agree with jwb: to hell with rehabilitation in cases like his. Call it revenge, call it whatever you want, I think the guy should die for his actions. I wonder how many of the relatives of those he killed would be happy that he is where he is?
i don't think he'll ever be released
i wouldn't want to get so upset by a single case to advocate big change for one of the most humane systems in the world
norway isn't utopia but i don't think it's wrong to say compared to most of the world it's enviably safe and civilized
but releasing someone like this would definitely be unfair to the loved ones of those he killed and maimed
i have really weird contradictory feelings about it - part of me thinks, in America, just a widespread massive kill off of everyone with a history of violence - especially the police and military and the politicians who vote for their funding and every rapist and people who used violence to unfairly overpower others - that would do wonders for our gene pool and the quality of life would certainly rise
but then on the other hand i oppose the death penalty and any state run use of force at all
i just like really extreme solutions but then i respect the politics of a place like norway
i just see the positive in everything lol
it's my endless optimism i guess
There's a high likelihood that in the future they're going to use some of that tech Elon Musk and Bill Gates are involved with to rewrite the brains of convicts as part of a rehabilitation process. Is that better than the death penalty? Guess it depends on who you ask.
Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 16, 2023, 03:02 PMThere's a high likelihood that in the future they're going to use some of that tech Elon Musk and Bill Gates are involved with to rewrite the brains of convicts as part of a rehabilitation process. Is that better than the death penalty? Guess it depends on who you ask.
i agree this is possible and likely
this is why i oppose background checks and red flag laws as a gun control measure
this wild arrogance that the state has about being so flawless in determining right from wrong
with the arrests and terrorist charges brought against stop cop city protesters in atlanta
anything that undermines their authority is terrorism to them and in a lesser sense so is just voting
I'm mot saying ABB will be let out, but come on: it hardly looks like maximum security does it? He could escape. Yes it's only one case but as a sample I think it stands up. Also anyone convicted of school shootings, mass shootings, hate crimes involving murder, all that sort of thing should be treated, I think, more harshly. Everyone's so concerned about the rights of the perp that nobody's thinking of those he or she leaves to grieve for the rest of their lives. To a real extent, they also serve a life sentence.
i still think you're too caught up in this one example
i promise you, not just in america but all around the world the incarcerated are among the most uncared for abandoned people on earth
prisons are human suffering factories and in general but mostly i am speaking of america prisons prisoners are given no quarter physically or psychologically
the number of people suffering untold atrocities with no recourse throughout the world in prisons many for victimless or simple property crimes is a much greater cause of human suffering than mass shootings
there's no shame in treating people humanely
and no amount of suffering inflicted on the criminal can change the past
i actually know a pretty lot about american prisons and very little about what's happening in europe but i've read that french and english prisons are comparable
i'm not trying to strawman you - you haven't said that norway should adopt the american model but big picture i'd rather a few had it too easy than have hundreds of thousands living in hell
Quote from: Dreams on Mar 16, 2023, 08:01 PMi still think you're too caught up in this one example
i promise you, not just in america but all around the world the incarcerated are among the most uncared for abandoned people on earth
prisons are human suffering factories and in general but mostly i am speaking of america prisons prisoners are given no quarter physically or psychologically
the number of people suffering untold atrocities with no recourse throughout the world in prisons many for victimless or simple property crimes is a much greater cause of human suffering than mass shootings
there's no shame in treating people humanely
and no amount of suffering inflicted on the criminal can change the past
i actually know a pretty lot about american prisons and very little about what's happening in europe but i've read that french and english prisons are comparable
i'm not trying to strawman you - you haven't said that norway should adopt the american model but big picture i'd rather a few had it too easy than have hundreds of thousands living in hell
I don't disagree but tell that to the people who lost their loved one to said criminal. It's natural for someone to want their pound of flesh. Revenge, sad to say, is one of those tragic human fallibilities.
Fully agree with that last sentence Dreams posted. I think prisons badly need reform.
Also don't think it's right that you can have a person who failed to pay tax locked up with a murderer or other violent criminal.
Violent criminals should be kept in a separate facility to the non violent.
QuoteI don't disagree but tell that to the people who lost their loved one to said criminal. It's natural for someone to want their pound of flesh. Revenge, sad to say, is one of those tragic human fallibilities.
yeah i'm a revenge minded person myself
when i see families calling for revenge because their loved one was killed by the police the first thing i think is they should kill THEIR kids
It always seemed like a pretty harsh way to end a hockey game.
I agree there should be either separate murder/rape/abuse prisons, or they should be sectioned off from the others. Definitely some crimes are lesser and it is without question not right how someone who has, I don't know, not paid a parking fine and happens to be the wrong colour in a state or whatever is thrown in there with the lions. But for those who have been convicted of really serious crimes, I'll be honest: I dont' want them having an easy time in prison. It's meant to be punishment. Look at the English 19th century example: criminals couldn't even speak to each other, had to perform meaningless but very taxing tasks every day, no energy left for drugs or planning breakouts or getting into gangs. Not saying that was right either, but you hear people say "Oh I can do that time standing on my head" and it's nothing to them. That definitely can't be right. Someone kills someone or rapes someone and then goes to a place where they don't even find it hard to live?
Japan has very rigid conditions you might approve of
I feel like the death penalty would be great if the United States actually had a competent judicial system. To many disgustingly correupt aspects about it that make it a terrible idea.
From the policing, to the relationships between the cops/prosecuter/judges being one big boys (and girls) club. I have seen first hand how that can play for or against you depending on your level of wealth or connection.
Idaho governor signs firing squad execution bill into law (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/idaho-governor-signs-firing-squad-execution-bill-law-98123318)
Quote from: Psy-Fi on Mar 26, 2023, 12:31 PMIdaho governor signs firing squad execution bill into law (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/idaho-governor-signs-firing-squad-execution-bill-law-98123318)
QuoteThe Idaho Department of Correction estimates it will cost around $750,000 to build or retrofit a death chamber for firing squad executions.
Huh? The prisons already have yards and nearby firing ranges on the officers' training grounds. Take them to the firing range in cuffs and shackles, march them five yards back and shoot them. $750,000 for a room to shoot someone in wt actual f?
Quote from: Toy Revolver on Mar 26, 2023, 02:18 PMQuoteThe Idaho Department of Correction estimates it will cost around $750,000 to build or retrofit a death chamber for firing squad executions.
Huh? The prisons already have yards and nearby firing ranges on the officers' training grounds. Take them to the firing range in cuffs and shackles, march them five yards back and shoot them. $750,000 for a room to shoot someone in wt actual f?
Typical overpriced American government expenditures.
Maybe they should outsource the executions to China.
Quote from: Psy-Fi on Mar 26, 2023, 04:23 PMQuote from: Toy Revolver on Mar 26, 2023, 02:18 PMQuoteThe Idaho Department of Correction estimates it will cost around $750,000 to build or retrofit a death chamber for firing squad executions.
Huh? The prisons already have yards and nearby firing ranges on the officers' training grounds. Take them to the firing range in cuffs and shackles, march them five yards back and shoot them. $750,000 for a room to shoot someone in wt actual f?
Typical overpriced American government expenditures.
Maybe they should outsource the executions to China.
they do it right
Quote from: Toy Revolver on Mar 26, 2023, 02:18 PMQuote from: Psy-Fi on Mar 26, 2023, 12:31 PMIdaho governor signs firing squad execution bill into law (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/idaho-governor-signs-firing-squad-execution-bill-law-98123318)
QuoteThe Idaho Department of Correction estimates it will cost around $750,000 to build or retrofit a death chamber for firing squad executions.
Huh? The prisons already have yards and nearby firing ranges on the officers' training grounds. Take them to the firing range in cuffs and shackles, march them five yards back and shoot them. $750,000 for a room to shoot someone in wt actual f?
I'd guess most people don't want to fire a gun or rifle at an actual human being. Even if we legalized death penalty, I doubt making shooting people part of a workday would get past our labour laws.
So maybe that has something to do with it? Like maybe they have some firing robot or something?
Just wildly guessing here ofc.
QuoteI'd guess most people don't want to fire a gun or rifle at an actual human being.
Dude they'd have half the state of Idaho
paying to do it. They could very easily make money auctioning off the right to be an executioner.
Quote from: Toy Revolver on Mar 26, 2023, 06:14 PMQuoteI'd guess most people don't want to fire a gun or rifle at an actual human being.
Dude they'd have half the state of Idaho paying to do it. They could very easily make money auctioning off the right to be an executioner.
I think this tops the list for most cynical comments so far of 2023 😄 I hope it's not that bad. Is it?
As a side note; I enjoy violent, shocking fiction, but maybe part of what allows that is it's so clearly in the realm of fantasy for me.
Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 26, 2023, 05:31 PMI'd guess most people don't want to fire a gun or rifle at an actual human being. Even if we legalized death penalty, I doubt making shooting people part of a workday would get past our labour laws.
So maybe that has something to do with it? Like maybe they have some firing robot or something?
Just wildly guessing here ofc.
Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 26, 2023, 06:18 PMQuote from: Toy Revolver on Mar 26, 2023, 06:14 PMQuoteI'd guess most people don't want to fire a gun or rifle at an actual human being.
Dude they'd have half the state of Idaho paying to do it. They could very easily make money auctioning off the right to be an executioner.
I think this tops the list for most cynical comments so far of 2023 😄 I hope it's not that bad. Is it?
As a side note; I enjoy violent, shocking fiction, but maybe part of what allows that is it's so clearly in the realm of fantasy for me.
dude, it's unequivocally true - maybe not half the state but for sure many thousands
many prison workers would do it just for the overtime or for free to break up the monotony of their day and the monotony of their lives
i guess people really don't know what's going on - the prison guards hang out on the edges and make jokes about the inmates being raped - i'm not in anyway bring hyperbolic or exaggerating- it's like that
i'm not being cynical- i'm flat stating a truth
Quote from: Jwb on Mar 27, 2023, 06:13 AMYou see this story?
no i hadn't
https://apnews.com/article/be0cbc6e970b7d709ea4af453c9af6ee
not surprised it's not bigger news since the victim appears to be white
people seem to prefer to pretend cops are just racist rather than they're psychopaths
the truth is they're both
so it looks like they're only being sued but not up on murder charges
i'll have to check if this checks out but it seems like for some reason when they murder white people they don't get charged with murder