I was driving around yesterday with some rock station playing and they put on "Creep" by Stone Temple Pilots. It felt like a relic of a bygone era. While some other songs from that period are almost part of the American Rock canon. So, just a general question, but does the Grunge-era feel dated at this point? And who, if anyone, still holds up?
I didn't really like grunge much when it was popular contemporary music and most of it feels extremely dated to me now. I still can enjoy some Nirvana, some Pearl Jam, and a couple Alice in Chains songs, but that's about it. Soundgarden, Stone Temple Pilots, Candlebox, Silverchair, Blind Melon, Bush, et al. didn't do it for me back then and still do nothing for me. Even a lot of the more "legit" stuff like Mudhoney, Dinosaur Jr., Meat Puppets, and Screaming Trees (though I do like Mark Lanegan's voice) never did much for me and I never seek them out now. The Melvins and Tad were two that still kind of seem like shit I'd be into, and I have nothing against them per se, but I've never heard anything by them that I really loved.
It's definitely dated in the sense that it's clearly rooted in the cultural and musical hallmarks of the early 90s. But I don't think that's a bad thing in itself and I don't think that means it can't hold up as great music.
I think a lot of Nirvana, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains songs all hold up as just great rock songs. I didn't get into any of those bands until I was in my teens in the early-mid 2000s, well after any era where they were relevant. I wasn't conscious of music during the grunge era, so in a way it's always sounded dated to me by default since I cut my teeth on nu-metal and pop punk in the late 90s and early 2000s. Grunge was already kinda part of the rock canon by the time I got heavily into music in my teens. But like I said I don't view being dated as necessarily a bad thing.
There's a lot of grunge I don't like much (never was a big STP or Pearl Jam fan for example) but it's not because it sounds any more dated, it's just a preference thing.
One band from that era that I like, though I didn't hear them until twenty years after the fact, is Superconductor. If more grunge had rocked out like this back in the day I think I would've liked it a lot more:
As far as the big names go the only one I was ever really into was Nirvana.
I've been meaning to explore Dinosaur Jr. I think I've heard a bit but not much. I think.
Grunge is such a loosey-goosey genre:
Hole still holds up
If you consider
Siamese Dream to be grunge, then yeah, that still holds up too.
The only grunge groups I was into in the late 80's to the mid 90's were Nirvana, Tad, and Soundgarden. I checked out a lot of other bands in the genre at that time but those three were the ones that stuck and were my favorites by far.
I still have all the albums I bought by those three bands but I haven't listened to anything by any of them for several years. I'm pretty sure they'd all hold up to the test of time if I played any of them now.
I still listen to Soundgarden and it doesn't feel dated to me. I just like to hear Chris. I go from listening to Soundgarden to Audioslave back to back from time to time and it's all good to me.
Quote from: SGR on May 28, 2023, 02:42 AMGrunge is such a loosey-goosey genre:
Hole still holds up
If you consider Siamese Dream to be grunge, then yeah, that still holds up too.
"Violet" still mostly holds up for me. I didn't like "Cherub Rock" when it was new and now it kind of makes me nostalgic. I don't know if that's an example of it holding up well, but that's happened with a lot of the music that was popular during my high school years (and childhood and early adulthood too).
I still love the first two Smashing Pumpkins albums. I sometimes wish they had continued in the direction of Siamese Dream, the mash of shoegaze and psychedelia and Sabbath and alt-whine rock they captured on that early stuff is so unique for its time.
Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on May 29, 2023, 11:49 AMI still love the first two Smashing Pumpkins albums. I sometimes wish they had continued in the direction of Siamese Dream, the mash of shoegaze and psychedelia and Sabbath and alt-whine rock they captured on that early stuff is so unique for its time.
I've never been able to really get into them. My brother loved
Gish and
Lull when they came out and the way he described them made them sound amazing, so I borrowed his tapes and I was pretty underwhelmed. Then they got really popular with
Siamese Dream and hearing them so much made me like them even less. That said, there are a few of songs of theirs that I've liked over the years. "Rhinoceros" is decent except for the guitar shredding stuff. I used to like "Disarm" until I got tired of hearing it everywhere. I liked "Ava Adore" when it was new, but I don't think it's aged well. I've always liked "1979" no matter how many times I've heard it. And now I kind of like "Cherub Rock", I guess, because it gives me high school nostalgia.
I discovered them around my freshman year of high school (2003-2004) and they meant a lot to teenage me. I definitely only really listen to them nostalgically these days, but I have a ton of fond memories. I connected with a friend who I hung out with a lot in high school (and briefly dated in college) and we used to get high and have rooftop stargazing sessions to Siamese Dream. We also saw them (well, Billy Corgan and the Billy Corgan Band) in 2010 and that was a very fun experience.
But I get you, there's a lot of stuff that was popular in my youth that I just didn't like. For me, just as an example, I never liked the Strokes, Interpol, Arctic Monkeys, Arcade Fire, a lot of the wave of 2000s indie always left me cold and wondering what I was missing that made it so incredible and the immense, inescapable praise of them made me dislike them more. So I feel you on not getting the hype for some things.
Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on May 29, 2023, 01:11 PMI discovered them around my freshman year of high school (2003-2004) and they meant a lot to teenage me. I definitely only really listen to them nostalgically these days, but I have a ton of fond memories. I connected with a friend who I hung out with a lot in high school (and briefly dated in college) and we used to get high and have rooftop stargazing sessions to Siamese Dream. We also saw them (well, Billy Corgan and the Billy Corgan Band) in 2010 and that was a very fun experience.
But I get you, there's a lot of stuff that was popular in my youth that I just didn't like. For me, just as an example, I never liked the Strokes, Interpol, Arctic Monkeys, Arcade Fire, a lot of the wave of 2000s indie always left me cold and wondering what I was missing that made it so incredible and the immense, inescapable praise of them made me dislike them more. So I feel you on not getting the hype for some things.
It's interesting how that goes. People have such different experience with music at different ages. For me, Smashing Pumpkins (and a lot of other bands mentioned in this thread) were so popular and inescapable when I was in high school that it made me dislike them. For you, I assume, Smashing Pumpkins were older music that you were discovering for the first time. The equivalent for me would be a band like Bauhaus, who I "discovered" at around 15 (though I had already been a fan of Love & Rockets since I was 11 or 12) and ended up being one of my favorite bands. Then there's that weird flip that happens to people when they approach their mid-twenties, where popular music no longer feels so inescapable and you may not even really know what is or isn't popular. That's the age I was in the early 00s, and I really loved the first Strokes album. But I bet it had a lot less context for me than it did for you. I knew a couple of people who liked them, but that's about it. I knew they weren't an obscure band but I didn't really know their level of popularity. Because of that, there was no hype for me going in really.
For a long time, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness was my all time favorite album. I discovered them around 2009 (I was in ninth grade), so you can imagine how refreshing it was to hear that over the contemporary music of the time. They're still a favorite band of mine. Love em to death. Seen 'em in concert twice.
Quote from: SGR on May 30, 2023, 09:11 PMFor a long time, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness was my all time favorite album. I discovered them around 2009 (I was in ninth grade), so you can imagine how refreshing it was to hear that over the contemporary music of the time. They're still a favorite band of mine . Love em to death. Seen 'em in concert twice.
I don't remember 2009 having a lack of good music and I've never liked that album, but to each their own. We all have music that blew our minds at that age! :)
Nutshell by Alice in Chains still sounds amazing. And depressing as hell. It's the song that reminds me the most about Layne Staley's gradual decline and the sad circumstances of his death. Jar of Flies generally holds up well, more so than Dirt or any of their other stuff.
Quote from: Janszoon on May 30, 2023, 09:18 PMI don't remember 2009 having a lack of good music and I've never liked that album, but to each their own. We all have music that blew our minds at that age! :)
Yeah, probably not a lack of good music if you knew where to look, but I didn't yet. So the pop songs of the day like "Poker Face" and "I Gotta Feeling" were not doing much for me. 2009 was one year before I joined MusicBanter. I started to find a lot better music after that.
Quote from: Gandalf on May 30, 2023, 09:25 PMNutshell by Alice in Chains still sounds amazing. And depressing as hell. It's the song that reminds me the most about Layne Staley's gradual decline and the sad circumstances of his death. Jar of Flies generally holds up well, more so than Dirt or any of their other stuff.
Love Jar of Flies. But I do think that Dirt and their third, self-titled album still hold up great. I think their MTV Unplugged set might be my favorite AIC record though.
Quote from: Janszoon on May 30, 2023, 04:01 PMIt's interesting how that goes. People have such different experience with music at different ages. For me, Smashing Pumpkins (and a lot of other bands mentioned in this thread) were so popular and inescapable when I was in high school that it made me dislike them. For you, I assume, Smashing Pumpkins were older music that you were discovering for the first time. The equivalent for me would be a band like Bauhaus, who I "discovered" at around 15 (though I had already been a fan of Love & Rockets since I was 11 or 12) and ended up being one of my favorite bands. Then there's that weird flip that happens to people when they approach their mid-twenties, where popular music no longer feels so inescapable and you may not even really know what is or isn't popular. That's the age I was in the early 00s, and I really loved the first Strokes album. But I bet it had a lot less context for me than it did for you. I knew a couple of people who liked them, but that's about it. I knew they weren't an obscure band but I didn't really know their level of popularity. Because of that, there was no hype for me going in really.
It is interesting, though for me it was less that The Strokes and all those indie bands I mentioned were inescapably popular and more that Pitchfork reading online hipsters dominated a lot of the music discourse I was exposed to back then and they would hype up bands I didn't really get (most indie) while trashing the stuff I liked (pop punk and nu-metal and such). I never had a problem with overexposure or popularity though, as is probably evidenced by the fact that I liked pop punk and nu-metal, haha.
Quote from: SGR on May 30, 2023, 10:05 PMLove Jar of Flies. But I do think that Dirt and their third, self-titled album still hold up great. I think their MTV Unplugged set might be my favorite AIC record though.
The AIC songs that don't sound like AIC are the best ones, IMO. Down in a Hole is classic AIC to me, but Them Bones, Would, Man in a Box, and No Excuses to me are incredible tracks that don't get their due.
Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on May 30, 2023, 11:31 PMIt is interesting, though for me it was less that The Strokes and all those indie bands I mentioned were inescapably popular and more that Pitchfork reading online hipsters dominated a lot of the music discourse I was exposed to back then and they would hype up bands I didn't really get (most indie) while trashing the stuff I liked (pop punk and nu-metal and such). I never had a problem with overexposure or popularity though, as is probably evidenced by the fact that I liked pop punk and nu-metal, haha.
I really loved that period in music. It was my college years, and it felt like all was right with the world. But I do remember a lot of bands being hyped (Libertines being an inexcusable example) that straight sucked.
Quote from: TheBig3 on Jun 02, 2023, 08:16 PMThe AIC songs that don't sound like AIC are the best ones, IMO. Down in a Hole is classic AIC to me, but Them Bones, Would, Man in a Box, and No Excuses to me are incredible tracks that don't get their due.
You don't think those tracks get their due? Those are really popular tracks. You tune into Sirius XM's Lithium channel (which plays 90s grunge and alt rock), you'll probably hear all of those songs in one day of programming. This would be an example of an AIC track that doesn't get its due imo:
QuoteI really loved that period in music. It was my college years, and it felt like all was right with the world. But I do remember a lot of bands being hyped (Libertines being an inexcusable example) that straight sucked.
I think the difference in age could be a factor. A lot of that indie/garage rock revival stuff feels like it appealed to an audience that skewed a bit older than I was at the time. I entered high school in 2003 when that movement kinda peaked, and I gravitated a lot more to teen angst-core like nu-metal and emo. So I have no real fond nostalgic memories of that genre/movement, in 2003 all I wanted to do was scream into my pillow while listening to Slipknot, haha.
Quote from: SGR on Jun 02, 2023, 08:20 PMYou don't think those tracks get their due? Those are really popular tracks. You tune into Sirius XM's Lithium channel (which plays 90s grunge and alt rock), you'll probably hear all of those songs in one day of programming. This would be an example of an AIC track that doesn't get its due imo:
I think they get their due, I just think those are atypical AIC songs.
Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Jun 03, 2023, 02:10 AMI think the difference in age could be a factor. A lot of that indie/garage rock revival stuff feels like it appealed to an audience that skewed a bit older than I was at the time. I entered high school in 2003 when that movement kinda peaked, and I gravitated a lot more to teen angst-core like nu-metal and emo. So I have no real fond nostalgic memories of that genre/movement, in 2003 all I wanted to do was scream into my pillow while listening to Slipknot, haha.
Maybe. But for me - and I should say here that when people say this about Nirvana/Hair metal is boils my blood - but White Blood Cells by The White Stripes, for me personally, delivered me from a nu-metal hell that I can't be grateful enough for. And I loved nu-metal, I bought a disgusting amount of CDs back then. Most being nu-metal. My paycheck was 1/3rd, CDs, fast food, gas for the car. God damn life was good. But nu-metal felt like it was running out of juice towards 2001. The new Korn albums were meh, Limp Bizkit was brazenly selling out, and the amount of CDs I bought from bands like Soil, Trapt, and hedPE that had one good song on it was really burning me. I also was growing older, I was getting less angry, and I was looking for some new stuff. I graduated from high school in 2001, and that sort of coincided with a time in my life when I was leaving home and who I had been behind.
QuoteMaybe. But for me - and I should say here that when people say this about Nirvana/Hair metal is boils my blood - but White Blood Cells by The White Stripes, for me personally, delivered me from a nu-metal hell that I can't be grateful enough for. And I loved nu-metal, I bought a disgusting amount of CDs back then. Most being nu-metal. My paycheck was 1/3rd, CDs, fast food, gas for the car. God damn life was good. But nu-metal felt like it was running out of juice towards 2001. The new Korn albums were meh, Limp Bizkit was brazenly selling out, and the amount of CDs I bought from bands like Soil, Trapt, and hedPE that had one good song on it was really burning me. I also was growing older, I was getting less angry, and I was looking for some new stuff. I graduated from high school in 2001, and that sort of coincided with a time in my life when I was leaving home and who I had been behind.
I get you. For me I kinda graduated from angsty stuff like nu-metal to grindcore, industrial, electronic, honestly the last kind of
current rock music I really got into was emo/post-hardcore, and that was back in the mid to late 2000s. By college I was more into electronic music than any form of popular rock. I still have love for my childhood angst-rock, I just think the White Stripes wave kinda passed me by and I never had that magic "this is amazing" moment for it. I don't hate that 2000s indie wave, it's just kind of there for me.
I also just don't tend to turn my back on any of my favorite genres of music. I'll still bump Korn and also listen to obscure eastern European ambient artists and other more tasteful music. Certain artists haven't aged well, but I don't really feel like I've ever "grown out" of any genre.
Quote from: TheBig3 on Jun 03, 2023, 04:23 AMI think they get their due, I just think those are atypical AIC songs.
(https://media.tenor.com/0pmpMlo8eL8AAAAC/what-huh.gif)
What's a typical AIC song then?
Quote from: SGR on Jun 03, 2023, 06:02 AMWhat's a typical AIC song then?
Nutshell, down in a hole, rooster. The fucking mopey, slow moving, dirge songs.
Quote from: TheBig3 on Jun 03, 2023, 03:00 PMNutshell, down in a hole, rooster. The fucking mopey, slow moving, dirge songs.
Eh, they skewed more towards hard rock in the beginning. Their music afterwards was a mix in terms of rockers/dirges.
Local H - Back in the Day
this was always one of my favorite songs since I heard it in like 2013
I'll never understand how Mother Love Bone morphed into the world's most dullest band after Andrew Wood died.
Not sure if they class as Grunge though, to me they were kind of in the same bracket as Janes Addiction. Kind of like hair metal with benefits.
And how the fuck have Mudhoney not been mentioned in this thread yet. Touch Me I'm Sick is the grungiest grunge song ever.
Alice in Chains???? Seriously fuck off with that.
Quote from: Suburban Placeholder? on Oct 21, 2023, 11:37 PMAlice in Chains???? Seriously fuck off with that.
I'm not going to
Quote from: TheBig3 on Oct 22, 2023, 07:27 PMI'm not going to
Yeah, AIC is great. Specifically
Dirt,
Alice in Chains,
Jar of Flies and their absolute best (imo)
MTV Unplugged
I have to say only Nirvana and Hole have really lasted for me. Practically everything Nirvana recorded (especially "Lithium" and "All Apologies"); and despite my misgivings about Courtney Love personally, Hole's Live Through This meant a lot to me in the '90s and I still play it from time to time (saw the band twice live on the Live Through This tour, and I remember being blown away by Eric Erlandson's flash rhythm guitar playing). Never get tired of "Violet", "Miss World", and "Softer, Softest".
Quote from: ribbons on Oct 22, 2023, 10:01 PMI have to say only Nirvana and Hole have really lasted for me. Practically everything Nirvana recorded (especially "Lithium" and "All Apologies"); and despite my misgivings about Courtney Love personally, Hole's Live Through This meant a lot to me in the '90s and I still play it from time to time (saw the band twice live on the Live Through This tour, and I remember being blown away by Eric Erlandson's flash rhythm guitar playing). Never get tired of "Violet", "Miss World", and "Softer, Softest".
Live Through This is a great album. And I think
In Utero is even better (all praise due to Steve Albini).
@SGR the drum sounds Albini engineered on
In Utero are pretty incredible! Such a powerful album both sonically and emotionally - more so than
Nevermind imho. I don't think I've ever listened to "All Apologies" without tearing up.
Chloe Dancer/Crown of Thorns by Mother Love Bone is a classic