Quote from: jadis on Apr 03, 2023, 11:42 AMATJ was so cute before they subjected her to this horrible thing called "buccal fat removal". Guess her face is more striking and "memorable" now, which is a good thing for an actress
https://www.plasticsurgery.org/cosmetic-procedures/buccal-fat-removal
these quacks are modern day foot binders
the narrative that it empowers women is an absolute crock
the only plastic surgery that should be legal is to repair burn victims and cancer patients and victims of car crashes and animal attacks or if it's a part of gender affirming - mutilating a person's body as way to profit from their insecurities is straight up predatory- and cosmetic surgery looks nasty - gtfo with the done tastefully garbage - weird swollen lips - corpse like gaunt faces - frankenbreasts - all of it repugnant deformities
i would never date a woman who is so insecure she had herself mutilated -
Edited by Guybrush:
I thought this was a topic interesting enough to warrant its own thread, so have split it from the horror movies thread :)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KY9wdzxV/AEB87-C6-A-886-C-42-AF-8296-4806-F2-A8-D39-A.jpg)
the surgeon who performed this butchery should be in prison
On the level of personal preference I mostly agree. I'm attracted to (a certain version of) how the female body looks "naturally", I like curvy ladies and I hate fake tits. I once had a tinder date who looked great in a winter sweater, she had the kind of body where big boobs looked natural. But when she took off her bra and revealed the surgery scars... not hot.
But speaking more generally, it seems to me like technology is fundamentally shifting the way we conceive of our bodies and there's nothing to be done about it. You and I are old timers. The further we go ahead, the fewer hang-ups people would have about their bodies "interfacing" with machines or whatever they call it. What to us is Cronenbergian body horror where the limits of the body are breached by technology won't look that way to them. And, as with everything else, there are dangers and there are "potentialities" (just don't ask me whatever those may be, I'm a lousy futurist)
nah
it'll be looked back on as a misogynistic and barbaric cultural insanity exactly like food binding in old china
The major difference from something like foot binding or FGM seems to be that it's not something coercive adults do to children. We get those desires for body modification implanted in us on a very deep level.
When I got a sleeve tattoo at 19, my parents thought I lost my mind and mutilated myself like only an insane person would. Literally no one in my peer group thought it was weird. Maybe it's "social pressure" - yes but everything is a matter of social pressure. Society presses us into new and strange shapes all the time, and *annoying overgrown theater kid voice* frankly I'm here for it
Quote from: jadis on Apr 03, 2023, 02:24 PMThe major difference from something like foot binding or FGM seems to be that it's not something coercive adults do to children. We get those desires for body modification implanted in us on a very deep level.
When I got a sleeve tattoo at 19, my parents thought I lost my mind and mutilated myself like only an insane person would. Literally no one in my peer group thought it was weird. Maybe it's "social pressure" - yes but everything is a matter of social pressure. Society presses us into new and strange shapes all the time, and *annoying overgrown theater kid voice* frankly I'm here for it
tattoos are ugly but they're not a form of mutilation
cosmetic plastic surgery is mutilation
it is self-hatred female self-inflicted misogyny which could be argued because of the ease with which it could be skipped makes it even creepier and more disturbing than being physically held down - mind control is physical control especially if you understand non-duality
Quoteit is self-hatred female self-inflicted misogyny
It's a thing, for sure. But how then would you describe what drives M to F transitions? Internalized misandry?
Quote from: jadis on Apr 03, 2023, 03:35 PMQuoteit is self-hatred female self-inflicted misogyny
It's a thing, for sure. But how then would you describe what drives M to F transitions? Internalized misandry?
As someone who did that transition, the answer for me is gender dysphoria. I never thought of myself as a boy growing up, I felt very out of place and uncomfortable socializing with boys, and I eventually grew to resent my own maleness, in the sense that people who I socialized with weren't seeing the real me.
It felt like being trapped in my own body, not really the "girl trapped in a male body" cliche, but more like the me that people saw and interacted with was a fake persona I felt forced to portray for them, while the real me was trapped in the back of my mind, just watching as this fake boy went through life putting on this facade for everyone.
It wasn't misandry, I never thought there was anything wrong with boys or maleness, but I knew that it didn't match how I felt inside and wasn't how I wanted to live.
QuoteEdited by Guybrush:
I thought this was a topic interesting enough to warrant its own thread, so have split it from the horror movies thread :)
I agree though the title for me at least is the wider rubric of body modification
Jadis has a sleeve tattoo? I did not expect that for some reason lol
Quote from: jadis on Apr 03, 2023, 05:28 PMQuoteEdited by Guybrush:
I thought this was a topic interesting enough to warrant its own thread, so have split it from the horror movies thread :)
I agree though the title for me at least is the wider rubric of body modification
I gave it a quick change 🙂
Quote from: Marie Monday on Apr 03, 2023, 07:02 PMJadis has a sleeve tattoo? I did not expect that for some reason lol
And the whole thing is the MB masthead!
Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 03, 2023, 03:10 PMQuote from: jadis on Apr 03, 2023, 02:24 PMThe major difference from something like foot binding or FGM seems to be that it's not something coercive adults do to children. We get those desires for body modification implanted in us on a very deep level.
When I got a sleeve tattoo at 19, my parents thought I lost my mind and mutilated myself like only an insane person would. Literally no one in my peer group thought it was weird. Maybe it's "social pressure" - yes but everything is a matter of social pressure. Society presses us into new and strange shapes all the time, and *annoying overgrown theater kid voice* frankly I'm here for it
tattoos are ugly but they're not a form of mutilation
cosmetic plastic surgery is mutilation
it is self-hatred female self-inflicted misogyny which could be argued because of the ease with which it could be skipped makes it even creepier and more disturbing than being physically held down - mind control is physical control especially if you understand non-duality
imagine if guys had the option to just get a dick transplant where a doctor gives us a bigger dick? How many guys you imagine would jump on that?
I don't think it's necessarily internalized misogyny to just want bigger tits.
And that buccal fat or whatever surgery at the beginning is not based on men's preferences even. Women in modeling and actresses etc obsess over body fat cause that industry is run by anorexic women and gay men who have no conception of what men actually find attractive.
QuoteHow many guys you imagine would jump on that?
no penis butchery for me
nope
no thank you
no
QuoteAnd that buccal fat or whatever surgery at the beginning is not based on men's preferences even.
Quoteit is self-hatred female self-inflicted misogyny
Why is it misogyny though? That implies to me that the standard which is being self inflicted is ultimately derived from men/the patriarchy.
Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 03, 2023, 08:48 PMQuoteHow many guys you imagine would jump on that?
no penis butchery for me
nope
no thank you
no
good for you but that's not what i asked you.
Quote from: Jwb on Apr 03, 2023, 10:10 PMWhy is it misogyny though? That implies to me that the standard which is being self inflicted is ultimately derived from men/the patriarchy.
women can hate themselves
Quotegood for you but that's not what i asked you
you say that like there's even a remote possibility that i might care
QuoteAnd that buccal fat or whatever surgery at the beginning is not based on men's preferences even. Women in modeling and actresses etc obsess over body fat cause that industry is run by anorexic women and gay men who have no conception of what men actually find attractive.
First of all,
But I'm not sure this entirely cancels out Revolver's point. IMO there's a sense in which the gay fashion designer who turns women into emaciated sexless clothes hangers deeply hates women even if all of his bffs are women.
Still interested if Revolver has a take on what's the psychological (if that's even the right word) dynamic behind M to F.
Quote from: Janszoon on Apr 03, 2023, 08:00 PMQuote from: Marie Monday on Apr 03, 2023, 07:02 PMJadis has a sleeve tattoo? I did not expect that for some reason lol
And the whole thing is the MB masthead!
It was a representation of a rhizome, as theorized by Gilles Deleuze and his buddy. I was really struck by this text in my freshman year what can I say. I went to this
cool tattoo artist (and eternal literature student) who I knew would be familiar with the concept and be sympathetic to the idea. We arrived at something I thought was pretty cool, but I've grown to dislike it and mostly covered it with other tattoos to the point where my arm just has random dark shit all over. Would've 1000% looked better had I just gone to some guy at the mall and asked him for whatever everyone else was doing back then. BUT I'm also proud of having done the dumb millennial schtick my own way
Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 03, 2023, 10:51 PMwomen can hate themselves
Why is their self hatred automatically considered misogyny? When men hate themselves its toxic masculinity and when women hate themselves its misogyny. Very convenient.
Quoteyou say that like there's even a remote possibility that i might care
i need to point out your deflections nonetheless.
i know you don't believe this but i'm not trying to debate you
i think that style of communication is boring
i don't care if you take issues with my positions or point out holes in my logic or any of that
conversation isn't a sport
If you don't want to respond you don't have to. If you give me half assed responses I'm naturally going to point that out.