Something Completely Different

Hola, Guest :)

Both me and Mr. Trollheart really appreciate the momentum we now have. Our little community is growing and we're getting some great threads and discussions up. We thought it might be time to find some moderators.

BUT as you know, SCD is still relatively small. People are civil and the spambots haven't discovered us yet. We're not exactly looking for a police force, but rather someone who can help us reach our vision and goals (https://scd.community/index.php?topic=6.0) for this community. As such, we're currently looking for what we've decided to call curators.


What do we mean by curator?

A curator is a volunteer who is the caretaker of a forum. They can sticky topics, edit and move posts, merge things, etc. We're hoping they will work to generally promote activity in their forums and additionally, they may be encouraged to take care of one or two other tasks as well.

PS: A curator does not ban people and will have to report to us or a global mod for that (although at this time, there are no global mods).

Some curators we MAY be looking for and some things we'd hope for them to help us with:

• Curator of the Movies & TV forum (short: maybe curator of visual arts?) - Manages the movie & TV forum and perhaps runs the movie club (although I've currently taken on that role myself)
• Curator of the music forum (or short: curator of music) - Manages the music forum and works to promote activity there and runs an album club
• Curator of the litterature forum (or short: curator of litterature) - Takes care of the litterature forum and perhaps runs a book club?
• Events manager - Curates the events & forum games forum and tries to promote some activity there
• Curator of the Creators corner - Takes care of Creators corner and promotes activity there, perhaps running writers competitions or music compos

Exact titles may change or be up for debate. Also, a curator doesn't have to do everything themselves (like run every club) and we won't actually force anyone to work. We know you're volunteers and are of course free to do something else with your time. But if a forum's curator goes completely radio silent and fails to respond, we may eventually start looking for someone else to take over.

Anyways, we have a couple of names on our list that we hope to bring on board and will contact soon. Maybe that's you, but you can also post here or write me or Trollheart a PM if you think you're the right person for any of this. Don't hesitate!

Also, if you see a role we're missing or have a great idea for something that we or a curator could be doing here, I hope you'll let us know. We want to hear from you.

(Edited in accordance with this post here (https://scd.community/index.php?msg=644))

Quote from: Guybrush on Jan 14, 2023, 09:28 AMHaha, thanks for the appeals :)

Me and Trollheart will put our heads together eventually. The current proposal is to find some roles for our moderators so that they have some defined responsibility beyond just being a mod. We're not planning on being very demanding in terms of work, but maybe someone can try and keep the forum events alive and well while another works to promote journals or album reviews, etc.

I also think there should be a yearly mod team zoom/teams meetup with the mods team so we can have a chat about where we are in terms of goals, plans for the future, etc.

We'll make a thread about it at some point soon, probably.

don't do it - once there's a group of elite insiders the forum sucks - you and th are all that's needed - the mods at mb ruined it - it doesn't matter who gets picked everyone is a lousy mod - if there's a group that can ban me but i can't ban them i will leave - it's anti-equalitarian and i have NEVER seen the power not be abused - you two started the place - you can run it without a team of dilwads who think they're fair

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 22, 2023, 12:29 PMdon't do it - once there's a group of elite insiders the forum sucks - you and th are all that's needed - the mods at mb ruined it - it doesn't matter who gets picked everyone is a lousy mod - if there's a group that can ban me but i can't ban them i will leave - it's anti-equalitarian and i have NEVER seen the power not be abused - you two started the place - you can run it without a team of dilwads who think they're fair

Yeah I have to say I agree here to some extent, while mod coverage is useful for when someone joins and starts advertising or spamming porn or something, does that still really happen nowadays? If we're not getting that kind of issue then just let it be Tore and Troll and leave it there.

I see your point, OH, but I think your perspective may be skewed by past experience.

The way I see it, moderators are obviously not there to lord over other people or form an elitist class of user. They're there to help you and I have a better forum experience. If they're not doing that, they're not fit for the role. Anyone who takes a moderator role here is going to know fully well that it isn't meant to be self-serving, but to be in service to the greater community. If they can't do that with integrity, they have no place on our mod team.

A big problem with MB is there's no one really present to manage the mods or give them directions. At least there wasn't when I was a mod. Even if you saw another mod doing something they shouldn't, taking it up with them is often kinda useless because they'll just argue against you and either way you're on equal footing, so who are you to make demands? That's not going to be the situation here.

Another reason we'll want moderators is if you're doing a lot of work on the forums, it's nice to be able to edit things and sticky things and rename things, so there's a practical side to it as well. HOWEVER, we may not need many global moderators. Maybe like one in a different timezone? If someone curates a forum or runs an album club or something, it's useful for them to have mod powers in that forum, but they don't need them everywhere. As mentioned elsewhere, we don't really need a police force.

Because you seem to be currently banned from MB (edit: sorry OH, thought you were), I also quickly wanted to address user bans.

The way I see it, we should lean towards forgiveness. A lot of us forum users are weird dorks. Some of us have honest to Darwin mental problems. We're gonna say and do weird things from time to time. Someone may have a tantrum. We've seen that happen on MB a few times where members who added positively to the community suddenly had a very bad day. What would sometimes happen is a mod would come in very heavy handed in a way that of course escalates the situation to where they give the guy a permban. To me, this would be an example of a moderator doing a very poor job. They've now removed an otherwise productive member of the community potentially forever. Things like this should generally not be allowed to happen. If we need to ban someone who is a part of this community, those bans should be temporary. Ultimately, I would want moderators who de-escalate conflicts rather than add to them so that we won't have to ban anyone.

All this to say.. There's a  certain kind of moderator that we all know very well and I'm sure neither me or Trollheart want them here :)

Edit:

Because we need moderators more for practical reasons than for policing, we could consider limiting moderator powers so that actual policing is left up to admins or perhaps one dedicated global mod or something.

@TheNonSexual OccultHawk & @Comus Sorry guys, thought this discussion was off-topic where it was, but quite valuable to this thread.

So I split it to its own thread with the intent to then merge the two topics about moderators. However, I'm just struggling a bit to find out how to merge the two.

edit:

There we go!

Sorry for all the gods danged text, but I just had a look at default moderators permissions in SMF.

The general setup here for mods is actually more just someone who can move / merge topics, delete posts and unlock / reset polls etc. Banning other users does not seem to be part of a moderators job. Rather, that is within the realm of global mods and administrators.

Being able to ban members is currently not something we need, so when we when we discuss mods forward, I suggest we stick to that so that we're not talking about someone with the ability to ban other members.

If we need someone with that power, we'll announce our need for a global moderator.

Edit:

Just a quick note about me and Trollheart and how we wield this power. We have a written agreement that we'll check with each other on important decisions. The banning of community integrated members is mentioned here specifically, so we have agreed not to make such decisions on our own. The same is not true for general maintenance tasks which includes banning spambots, so that we can always do on our own.

There's a clause that changes things if one of us goes mysteriously absent, but that shouldn't happen :) either way, that's how we think about this.

QuoteBecause you seem to be currently banned from MB, I also quickly wanted to address user bans.

ftr i am NOT banned from MB i stopped posting there because it's toxic 

Occult. There is a lot that goes into being a moderator and, as Guybrush says, you need to have someone to moderate the mods, which I have faith that Guy will in fact do.

Guybrush is also right that one of the main duties of a mod is to deescalate a situation and only yield the hammer as a last resort. When I was a mod/supervisor at the writing forum, I saved more than a few members from getting the hammer (and if you think MB is fascist, you should spend a day at WF, even during my time there). Yes, you should be able to express your opinion with only blowback from other members who may disagree with you, but we can never turn a forum into the Wild West.  That's when good people start to leave and the forum ultimately fails.

So, the first priority of a mod is to keep the spammers out obviously, and then maybe move threads or edit them at the request of an OP (I don't know if a member can alter his/her thread title for example). After that though, yes, I guess mods are the cops of a forum, but they should always be mediators first. And they must always practice what they preach. For example, if I bust your chops for making remarks people find homophobic, I should not be making those same remarks myself. In other words, mods should never be above the law.

And neither should Guybrush or Trollheart. If a mod goes nuclear, he/she can always be fired. But if Trollheart decrees that all of us must wear party hats or something, we can always leave with our virtual feet. Anyway, a good mod isn't here to hurt people, on the contrary, a mod is there to ensure that everyone can get along to an extent.

And don't think that Guybrush or Trolls won't yield the hammer if someone becomes especially disruptive.I don't think Guybrush came up with this forum to be a free for all for actual insults and verbal attacks. I sense this will be a loose forum but even a loose forum has to have some boundaries. Otherwise, all you get is Donald Trump, you know what I mean?


Anyway, sorry for the novel, but those are some of my thoughts.

^Well put, Rubber Soul :) and thanks for your faith and support.

About the atmosphere here, I definitely don't want to create an echo chamber as there are far too many of those around and it's not healthy for anyone. So generally speaking, I welcome anyone to discuss anything - and also strongly disagree - as long as they can do so in a civil manner. I believe Trollheart is of a similar mind.

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 22, 2023, 02:38 PMftr i am NOT banned from MB i stopped posting there because it's toxic 

Sorry OH, I got the wrong impression. I've edited my post slightly so that I don't inadvertently misinform others.

Quote from: Rubber Soul on Jan 22, 2023, 02:44 PMOccult. There is a lot that goes into being a moderator and, as Guybrush says, you need to have someone to moderate the mods, which I have faith that Guy will in fact do.

Guybrush is also right that one of the main duties of a mod is to deescalate a situation and only yield the hammer as a last resort. When I was a mod/supervisor at the writing forum, I saved more than a few members from getting the hammer (and if you think MB is fascist, you should spend a day at WF, even during my time there). Yes, you should be able to express your opinion with only blowback from other members who may disagree with you, but we can never turn a forum into the Wild West.  That's when good people start to leave and the forum ultimately fails.

So, the first priority of a mod is to keep the spammers out obviously, and then maybe move threads or edit them at the request of an OP (I don't know if a member can alter his/her thread title for example). After that though, yes, I guess mods are the cops of a forum, but they should always be mediators first. And they must always practice what they preach. For example, if I bust your chops for making remarks people find homophobic, I should not be making those same remarks myself. In other words, mods should never be above the law.

And neither should Guybrush or Trollheart. If a mod goes nuclear, he/she can always be fired. But if Trollheart decrees that all of us must wear party hats or something, we can always leave with our virtual feet. Anyway, a good mod isn't here to hurt people, on the contrary, a mod is there to ensure that everyone can get along to an extent.

And don't think that Guybrush or Trolls won't yield the hammer if someone becomes especially disruptive.I don't think Guybrush came up with this forum to be a free for all for actual insults and verbal attacks. I sense this will be a loose forum but even a loose forum has to have some boundaries. Otherwise, all you get is Donald Trump, you know what I mean?


Anyway, sorry for the novel, but those are some of my thoughts.

i don't think mods should be allowed to post on the forums / it should be one or the other

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 22, 2023, 04:09 PMi don't think mods should be allowed to post on the forums / it should be one or the other

How would this work? Are you suggesting a shared mod account that we use to moderate users? Or are you suggesting moderators don't post? I think only being here to moderate is a really poor incentive to stick around. Nobody would want that.

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 22, 2023, 04:09 PM

Quote from: Rubber Soul on Jan 22, 2023, 02:44 PMi don't think mods should be allowed to post on the forums / it should be one or the other

Why not? Mods are members too. I can tell you this though. As a mod (if I become one) I won't get involved in any political discussions, sticking mostly to the forums that interest me, like music. A mod has to be neutral when dealing with differing political/religious/social opinions and should only intervene when things get especially nasty. If a mod does get caught up in a rather nasty discussion, another mod should step in without any favoritism towards the involved mod and try to settle things between the warring factions. Look, as Guybrush says, you can be vociferous in your opinions, just be civil about it, like you have been so far.

Quote from: Guybrush on Jan 22, 2023, 04:32 PM

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 22, 2023, 04:09 PMi don't think mods should be allowed to post on the forums / it should be one or the other

How would this work? Are you suggesting a shared mod account that we use to moderate users? Or are you suggesting moderators don't post? I think only being here to moderate is a really poor incentive to stick around. Nobody would want that.

i don't think someone with more power should be allowed to join the conversation unless it's their house - i get this is your house but once a regular poster becomes "special" and more powerful all conversations are skewed and dishonest

same reason cops aren't invited to parties- don't need them don't like them

QuoteWhy not? Mods are members too. I can tell you this though. As a mod (if I become one) I won't get involved in any political discussions, sticking mostly to the forums that interest me, like music. A mod has to be neutral when dealing with differing political/religious/social opinions and should only intervene when things get especially nasty. If a mod does get caught up in a rather nasty discussion, another mod should step in without any favoritism towards the involved mod and try to settle things between the warring factions. Look, as Guybrush says, you can be vociferous in your opinions, just be civil about it, like you have been so far.

people with power abuse it - always, never seen it go any other way - not at work - not out and about - not on forums

Yeah, but here's the thing- Mods really aren't all that special. Yeah, I guess mods do have a degree of authority, but with that also comes responsibility. A good mod won't act like he's Big Man on Campus. In fact, you may not even realize he/she is a mod unless you look at the title below the name. I get that some people don't like authority figures, but anarchy just won't work. Do we really want to live in a world where it's eat or be eaten? Anyway, like it or not, mods are an evil necessity in a successful forum.

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 22, 2023, 04:42 PMpeople with power abuse it - always, never seen it go any other way - not at work - not out and about - not on forums

Not necessarily. What about the ultimate authority figures? In other words, your parents (and keep it generic, I'm really not trying to pry)? Would you say they abused their authority?

Quote from: Rubber Soul on Jan 22, 2023, 04:52 PM

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 22, 2023, 04:42 PMpeople with power abuse it - always, never seen it go any other way - not at work - not out and about - not on forums

Not necessarily. What about the ultimate authority figures? In other words, your parents (and keep it generic, I'm really not trying to pry)? Would you say they abused their authority?

i can't answer about my parents and be generic at the same time - i've mentioned it on mb that i was abused

in general adults abuse their power over children

a good read about it is: Escape from Childhood: The Needs and Rights of Children by John Holt

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Childhood

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Holt_(educator)

QuoteDo we really want to live in a world where it's eat or be eaten?

it's like that no matter what - those obsessed with power and being on top of the food chain become mods or at least try

I'm sorry, OH. I know parents aren't perfect being a child of divorce myself. But I know a lot of people who have or had parents who usually made their decisions out of love. It was just the best example I could come up with.

Anyway, not all authority figures are bad people. For every Derek Chauvin out there, there is also the cop that helps the stranded motorist. Basically, there are good and bad in everything. If Guybrush is true to his word, and I believe he is, you'll see more of the good here.

Quotethere is also the cop that helps the stranded motorist

seriously? cops are ALWAYS looking for violations- if my car breaks down the LAST person i ever want to see is a cop

i have triple a - if i'm stranded get me a tow don't call the fuzz!!!

i will never call the cops - that's why i keep a revolver- cops are psychopaths- most of them only become cops because they're also cowards / proof in pudding: uvalde

Had I been more familiar with the standard way SMF handles moderators, I might have worded my first post a little differently.

The word moderator has some connotations to usually mean someone who can ban others from using a forum. That's really an elevated moderator position here (the global moderator) and not part of the job for a "normal" moderator. Turns out we're looking for "normal" moderators now and not the banning kind.

We might also need a global mod ("police") at some point, but I think that's a discussion for another time.

I've made a small suggestion to Trollheart that I think will at least help clear up communication on the subject. Me and TH will discuss a bit and report back.

I was stopped for running a red light once. I mean I was blatant. But I was also under a lot of stress (my brother had been diagnosed with lymphoma- made a full recovery). The cop understood and let me go on my way. That's how I know they're not all bad people (admittedly too many of them are though)

I would say, with the greatest respect to them both, it's only two people here who seem to have a problem with the idea of mods. If we want to think of ourselves as new, egalatarian and free-thinking, why not put it to the vote? Make a poll: do you want mods (or whatever we're going to call them) or not? Then we can go with majority view, rather than be seen to be forcing upon the forum something they don't want.

Or we could just shoot Hawk and Comus, I'm just sayin'. This is how revolutions get started, and there are far too many lampposts around here for my liking...
:shycouch:

You don't need a vote, Trolls. Every forum has mods, like I said, they're an evil necessity. The only question is do you want your mods to be authoritarian types or should they try and take a more relaxed approach? Besides, you and Guy can't do everything, or at least you won't be able to when the spambots do find us.

(https://stopthesethings.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/jackboots.jpg?w=460&h=237)

Quote from: Rubber Soul on Jan 22, 2023, 06:09 PMI was stopped for running a red light once. I mean I was blatant. But I was also under a lot of stress (my brother had been diagnosed with lymphoma- made a full recovery). The cop understood and let me go on my way. That's how I know they're not all bad people (admittedly too many of them are though)

The officer probably got so excited about your brother's misfortune that he had to get back into his squad car to beat off.

That's a pretty nasty thing to say. Why would you think a cop would be sexually excited about the diagonsis of some random guy he doesn't even know? Even if that's a joke, it's a pretty poor one. Just because you hate cops doesn't give you the right to ascribe motives to people you don't know, and to imply that there aren't any good ones among the - admittedly many, it seems - bad ones. Is everything black and white for you? Do your own experiences colour your attitude so much that you can't allow for the possibility of anything else? It's a bit of a juvenile, to say nothing of completely biased outlook.

Quote from: Trollheart on Jan 22, 2023, 08:00 PMThat's a pretty nasty thing to say. Why would you think a cop would be sexually excited about the diagonsis of some random guy he doesn't even know? Even if that's a joke, it's a pretty poor one. Just because you hate cops doesn't give you the right to ascribe motives to people you don't know, and to imply that there aren't any good ones among the - admittedly many, it seems - bad ones. Is everything black and white for you? Do your own experiences colour your attitude so much that you can't allow for the possibility of anything else? It's a bit of a juvenile, to say nothing of completely biased outlook.

well i wouldn't have made the joke if he hadn't been clear his brother beat the frightening diagnosis and as for cops i mean come on you live in ireland and i live in a ghetto in florida- the cops around here are psychopaths- i mean they weed out decent people who try to be good public servants- if they're not into the abuse and corruption game they leave them without backup on dangerous calls and bully them in the workplace forcing decent people from the profession- they're just another organized crime syndicate that terrorize the community

Yeah but RS doesn't live in Florida. I mean, sure, you could say "all the cops around here" or "all the cops in Florida" or whatever, but you made it clear that you meant all cops, everywhere. Or at least, you didn't make it clear that that was not what you meant, if it wasn't.

Also, regardless of the outcome of the operation, cancer is nothing to make jokes about. I don't think the fact that his brother beat it makes it a viable target for a smutty joke, which isn't even funny. I can't see the justification. I'm not going to be going on about it, I just think you might be better to think about how a supposedly funny casual comment can affect someone else. Maybe he doesn't care. Maybe he took it as a joke. Maybe I should shut up. All will be revealed in the next thrilling episode...

fair enough

ACAB though

I don't see why you folks would need mods if Guybrush and Trollheart are both active (https://boxden.com/smilies/Qh2Vxfi.gif)

Quote from: Mindy on Jan 22, 2023, 09:20 PMI don't see why you folks would need mods if Guybrush and Trollheart are both active (https://boxden.com/smilies/Qh2Vxfi.gif)

At the moment, they probably don't, but if this place grows to, say, a hundred members, then mods will be needed. Also what if Guybrush or Trolls have to leave the forum temporarily for real life issues? Then you need to have backup.

So, yeah, mods will be ultimately necessary unless you like seeing ads in Vietnamese all the time.

Quote from: Rubber Soul on Jan 22, 2023, 09:31 PM

Quote from: Mindy on Jan 22, 2023, 09:20 PMI don't see why you folks would need mods if Guybrush and Trollheart are both active (https://boxden.com/smilies/Qh2Vxfi.gif)

At the moment, they probably don't, but if this place grows to, say, a hundred members, then mods will be needed. Also what if Guybrush or Trolls have to leave the forum temporarily for real life issues? Then you need to have backup.

So, yeah, mods will be ultimately necessary unless you like seeing ads in Vietnamese all the time.

racist af tbh

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 22, 2023, 10:30 PMracist af tbh

You're right. I should have said Russian.

I don't think the vietnamese spambots care much.

If this place continues to grow and the spambots come, we will eventually need a moderator of the usual kind. However, it won't be someone who can ban people completely unchecked. Me and Trollheart have already agreed on our own system of checks and balances so that we won't go on our own banning rampages and so hopefully it makes sense that we'll extend this also to moderators. We'll also strive to be transparent about what we do, how and why and will inform you of important decisions with a thread on this board.

Currently, I think we will need a single person at some point in the future. Maybe we'll call him or her Community manager or something like that. In the even more distant future, that person might even need a helper or two - but just to be completely clear - it is not my wish or intention to create a large group of moderators who wear that title merely as a status symbol and who use it to bully other members. If we have moderators, it's because there's work for them that needs doing.

make sure you can unmoderator these future punks

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Jan 23, 2023, 04:28 PMmake sure you can unmoderator these future punks

No worries, we will :)

Demodulate?  :laughing:

Introducing curators

This forum had both moderators and global moderators where moderators have the power to sticky, edit, move threads etc. but can't ban while the global moderator has banning permissions. Unfortunately, I didn't quite figure this out until after I'd made this thread.

To avoid confusion, we have decided to rename the (regular) moderator to curator. It aligns nicely with the definition of a caretaker for a collection or exhibition. A forum can be said to be both those things; a collection of threads and posts presented to an audience.

I will reword the original post to reflect this change and make it clear that we are currently looking for curators.

Please check back on the first post here: https://scd.community/index.php?msg=390

Just wanna bump this as we still need more curators / ghouls.

(https://preview.redd.it/x9f5ngmg71v11.jpg?auto=webp&s=831037f28dcefeef8be74565647fc3ed45202068)

Edit: Buuump!!

Giving this a bump.

We need more GHOULS to oversee our thread graveyard, etc.

(https://media.tenor.com/AfEHlSQKlkMAAAAC/evil-dead-join-us.gif)