Something Completely Different

i understand why people might not think desantis is uniquely dangerous because his breed of fascist wannabes have been normalized in the republican party

some of you probably know i'm a georgia born floridian -

i hope it goes without saying i hate ron desantis

here's why i think he's different and more dangerous:

1) he's smarter
2) he's a workhorse
3) he's calculating
4) he specifically targets lgbt and especially trans
5) he has his finger on the pulse of the ugliest political undercurrent and effectively weaponizes it
6) florida is traditionally a purple state and he won in a landslide - he's extremely popular
7) he's especially mean spirited even among his republican peers
8 )he hints at southern separatism

worst than trump sounds hyperbolic but trump (and i'm not defending him so please don't go there) didn't start a war to fan the flames of nationalism- i guarantee to you desantis will - he'll also use keeping the military strong as an excuse to push his patriarchal hate ideologies - once you combine this with the possibility of conscription it could seriously be some sort of equivalent to the gulag for lgbt young adults

we are realistically looking at a desantis presidency with a republican congress and a far right supreme court - if this perfect storm happens nothing at all about what i'm saying is outlandish

it's almost enough to make me want to die

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3849873-democrats-prop-up-harris-clinton-for-2024-if-biden-doesnt-run-poll/

it's not that hillary or harris wouldn't be much better than desantis but why can't the dems actually support anyone you wouldn't support unless it was between them and a full on fascist? it's disgusting

it's like choosing between getting shot in the face and having your pinky cut off

I was sort of joking with that fake button I made but American Presidential politics and elections being what they are, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that match-up actually comes to fruition.

AOC might run  🤞

A Desantis presidency would be a functional holocaust for trans people, and I do not say this lightly. I have no hate in my heart for him or anyone else. But as a trans woman I feel extremely unsafe in America, and as a Jew I know exactly what happens when the common people ignore or dismiss that unsafe feeling.

But of course that assumes that they see me as a human life worth saving. I don't think many do, and it's all because I committed the unforgivable crime of daring to have agency over my own body. Daring to be free.

America is a lie.

I'm not up to speed on Desantis at all, but maybe there's a Last Week Tonight episode I can watch.

QuoteI have no hate in my heart for him or anyone else

don't worry - i got enough for the two us

Desantis is essentially a populist and believe me, I'm not a fan of populism left or right. One of these days I'm going to write a post on Huey Long, the populist Louisiana Governor to the left who ultimately paid for his rhetoric and gestapo tactics with his life.

But Desantis is actually worse as is right wing populism. You saw the damage done by Trump. You might note that Desantis also had the advantage of a hurricane he managed not to screw up, thus his landslide victory.

But Desantis will only be a danger to those he disagrees with (basically anyone but white supremacists and the fundamentalist right) if ordinary people vote for him. Ordinary people have a habit at looking at their immediate needs and not looking at the big picture. It's how we got Nazi Germany and it's probably why we have to worry about Putin now.

So don't be scared at Desantis. Be scared of your next door neighbor instead. He could be holding your life in the palm of his hand without even knowing it.

QuoteYou might note that Desantis also had the advantage of a hurricane he managed not to screw up, thus his landslide victory.

his biggest selling point was that he was brazenly thrilled to let tens of thousands of poor people die so they could keep selling hamburgers during covid

also he campaigns vigorously and non-stop on his anti-woke agenda which is mostly a method of fanning the flames of hate against lgbt but he throws in a bit at blacks and economic leftists and women to make sure every right wing weirdo has their favorite minority served up to them

i understand why you call him a populist but i don't think he's a populist in the same way trump was - trump could've been manipulated by the left and his administration was a lost opportunity to really get medieval on the 1% - we could've literally had the wealth hoarders (except trump himself) eliminated from society but we would rather continue to let them kill us and that probably won't change because we're so brainwashed to believe in the fairness of discriminating and segregating against the poor by not allowing them to have access to food shelter and medical care simply because they can't pay

the thing about his disaster response - he handles it well because he's legitimately competent like i was saying at the beginning- he's extremely smart and he's a workhorse but he's not a populist who moves with the wind he's a fascist that has used goon squads, wants florida to have an independent military, has his proverbial Jews to target (queers), and stays on point when it comes to hate

QuoteSo don't be scared at Desantis. Be scared of your next door neighbor instead. He could be holding your life in the palm of his hand without even knowing it.

i hear you on this and literally the neighbor to one side of me is that type of white weirdo and he fights with the neighbors on the other side of me who are poor hip hop loving constant weed smoking blacks with constant people of all ages coming around making a ruckus at all hours - it's my black neighbors who make up by far the majority of this entire section of town that i trust - i believe if what synth is describing, a holocaust against queers went down they'll be first in line firing literal bullets at anyone from the government trying to disappear anyone in their tribe and despite the stereotypes they accept queerness- i mean they ostracize it within their subculture but they do not sell out to the white capitalist death machine that desantis will try to weaponize which is why i would never call the cops on them - i keep on good terms with them always forcing small talk whenever i see them - believe it or not i'm really good at it and black people like me, even those that hate whiteness and i make friends with gun happy rednecks real quick as well - i'm not saying i'm immune to ending up on the wrong side of either culture i mean it's a tightrope but i know how to work the south from almost any angle and it helps that i'm southern af and love the south but my point is i see my neighbors as mostly as revolutionaries not as fascists - they hate the police and that's good enough for me and people think the right has some kind of monopoly on guns but that is so false every household here keeps loaded weapons at the ready - especially the currently apolitical who i think are really untapped revolutionaries

Quote from: Guybrush on Feb 17, 2023, 11:31 PMI'm not up to speed on Desantis at all, but maybe there's a Last Week Tonight episode I can watch.

:laughing: Yep, I bet John Oliver would do a good job of turning you into a genuine DeSantis hater !

To me, there are still too many "if"s and hurdles between DeSantis and the presidency, so I don't worry much about that. More alarming, and justifying what RS and Synth Lady suggest, is what DeSantis is already enacting or promoting on the ground in Florida. Without doing a fact check, there are:-
i) ban on abortions after 15 weeks
ii) the stunt of bussing immigrants miles away - not to solve problems, but to create problems
iii) turning "Critical Race Theory" into the new "Reds under the beds" menace, to justify clampdowns on college and school curriculums.

OK, some research on the education issue: this Florida news website is  commenting on two distinct laws now in effect:-

QuoteThe law bars instruction that says members of one race are inherently racist, and that they should feel guilt for past actions committed by others of the same race or that a person's status as privileged or oppressed is necessarily determined by their race. It also bars the notion that meritocracy is racist, or that discrimination is acceptable to achieve diversity. Opponents say the law will have a chilling effect on teaching about subjects like slavery and segregation.

All elementary schools will have to provide a searchable list of every book available in their libraries or used in instruction. School boards must let the public know when they plan to consider approving new instructional books and allow anyone to comment. Any objections to the material, by a parent or not, must be reported to the state.

So much for "small government" Republicanism!
From my experience, school libraries are often quiet repositories of weird and wonderful books left over from previous generations/donations, etc. The idea that every book must be approved by a state-appointed official is truly alarming, as it is to this poor teacher who explains what she is now obliged to do:-

Quotei) ban on abortions after 15 weeks
ii) the stunt of bussing immigrants miles away - not to solve problems, but to create problems
iii) turning "Critical Race Theory" into the new "Reds under the beds" menace, to justify clampdowns on college and school curriculums.

everything about all of this is real bad and we need solidarity so i don't want to sound like i'm hounding on his homophobia at the expense of his other evils but on the other hand we have to be the most vigilant about protecting the most vulnerable - you can make a good case that illegals are in fact the most vulnerable evidence by the multiple concentration camps we already have constructed that are commonly referred to as ice detention centers

that said my gut tells me the primary and most disturbing target is the lgbt

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/21/1130297123/national-dont-say-gay-stop-children-sexualization-bill

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/11/desantis-disney-world-board-members-florida

i know i'm preaching to the choir but i'll say it anyway - the cultural infrastructure is already in place to brown shirt queers - it's still an american right of passage to bully lgbt youth in public schools - high suicide rates and so on - of course the coward's path is through the most vulnerable

and he's calculating like i said the entire strategy of passing hateful legislation under the "think about the children" K-3 supposed limitation is a great way to say hey i'm going to help you target lgbt while keeping his bases covered - he's smart

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Feb 18, 2023, 03:56 PMand he's calculating like i said the entire strategy of passing hateful legislation under the "think about the children" K-3 supposed limitation is a great way to say hey i'm going to help you target lgbt while keeping his bases covered - he's smart

Yes, he seems to be smart, relentless and effective: always has an almost reasonable-sounding explain-away excuse for each incremental move he makes against tolerance, inclusion, science etc.

I was interested to read about you and your neighbours, NSOH, how you need a balance to interact with them on both sides. That's very different from my own experience, which, English style, is to have nothing to do with neighbours except a superficially polite nod, then keep walking! This is also a non-discriminatory approach: I am prepared to nod to people of any colour, creed or orientation. ;)

Yeah this is all really depressing and frightening. I'm worried for you guys (and for myself and the rest of the world too of course)

I don't understand this side of American politics at all. Like I don't understand why they promote these policies or where they come from or what makes them so appealing to many people.

I think it boils down to religious belief. America was founded essentially to escape religious persecution in England. In other words they we're denied the right to impose their beliefs on the unwilling others. So, now they're here to try to impose their will on the rest of Americans even though we like to claim we're a secular society.

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Feb 17, 2023, 09:58 PMAOC might run  🤞

 :pimp:

It must also be down to the prevalent attitude during the say 14th to 19th century across Europe, that the white man (and I use the gender deliberately) was the apex of humanity, and all else were to worship at his feet. If you didn't believe this implicitly, how could you countenance the enslavement of other human beings on the basis of their skin colour? And as you say, religion too: if you don't worship our god then you're fair game. And I don't think that belligerent attitude has ever really gone away. Even outside of the southern states, black people, Chinese/Asian people and others are not really accepted as being part of American society. As I pointed out in my History of America journal, these idiots like to call themselves "pure" Americans, that they were here first. But unless they're from a Native American tribe, they're just colonists like the rest of them.

There will always be people who want things to return to "the good old days" and would be more than happy to see separate washrooms, places at the back of buses for certain people, and would have no problem, unfortunately, as Hawk says, with "camps" being set up to "accommodate" the "undesirables". The problem with America going full Nazi is they have the firepower to back up a worldwide agenda, though you'd have to wonder where China would be on that. The good news, of course, is that once those two butt heads it's all over, so at least if there was to be another holocaust, it wouldn't last long enough for anyone to liberate the camps.

Unless they were zombies.

Quote from: Guybrush on Feb 18, 2023, 08:14 PMI don't understand this side of American politics at all. Like I don't understand why they promote these policies or where they come from or what makes them so appealing to many people.

tribalism and capitalism and population size and a lot of unhealthy social constructs

india and brazil have a lot similarities and comparable ugliness

QuoteI was interested to read about you and your neighbours, NSOH, how you need a balance to interact with them on both sides. That's very different from my own experience, which, English style, is to have nothing to do with neighbours except a superficially polite nod, then keep walking!

owning a house in this neighborhood kind of forces your hand - like one of the neighbors got it in his head that i had called code enforcement and i definitely didn't and never would but he just went off using a lot of profanity and wouldn't let me talk - he just had that i'm not afraid of being arrested vibe that's really delicate - you can't act scared or aggressive- i just said sir we can discuss this when you settle down but it wasn't me that called code enforcement-

the next time i saw him i didn't bring it up but i made a point to talk to him - just bs southern jawing - once i got him laughing i knew it was cool

i know i probably represent higher rent snd gentrification to the guy - once white people elbow in rent goes up - i'm sorry about that too - i wish i had a way not to be a part of that problem besides spending three times as much for the same house in a white neighborhood which i couldn't do and i'm not willing to do

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Feb 17, 2023, 09:58 PMAOC might run  🤞

Much like Bernie, I doubt she'd ever be able to get the nomination.

The nomination was rigged against Bernie though. I agree that AOC has no chance at this point. She's being so demonized it isn't funny.

Quote from: Rubber Soul on Feb 19, 2023, 12:48 PMThe nomination was rigged against Bernie though. I agree that AOC has no chance at this point. She's being so demonized it isn't funny.

so was trump - the most ridiculous candidate probably ever and he won - if a black dude can do it and then an orange clown can do it, hell if a stuttering no-personality buffoon like biden can do it AOC can do it - i think what PF is saying is the dems will cheat AOC same as they did bernie like you pointed out- reagan and both bushes were more passionate to the poor than the dems as a whole are today - the plan to take harris or hillary because warren or aoc supposedly couldn't win is suicide- even if harris or hillary won the war on the poor soldiers on and the holocaust of homelessness continues

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Feb 19, 2023, 01:01 PMi think what PF is saying is the dems will cheat AOC same as they did bernie like you pointed out

Yes, exactly.

Will AOC even be old enough to run in 2024? I know she was born the same year as me (and coincidentally has the same first name) and she will be 35 by election day, but I guess I'm just wondering if you can even run if you're not 35 yet.

QuoteWill AOC even be old enough to run in 2024?

Yes.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Feb 19, 2023, 02:22 PMWill AOC even be old enough to run in 2024? I know she was born the same year as me (and coincidentally has the same first name) and she will be 35 by election day, but I guess I'm just wondering if you can even run if you're not 35 yet.

Yes, she will be 35 in 2024.

I gotcha, thanks. I was just curious since she wouldn't technically turn 35 until October and there's still the primaries and such. I hope she runs personally, I think someone with a fire in their belly like her could really combat the right wing hysteria. Of course I could be completely wrong and it'll backfire spectacularly.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Feb 19, 2023, 03:09 PMI gotcha, thanks. I was just curious since she wouldn't technically turn 35 until October and there's still the primaries and such. I hope she runs personally, I think someone with a fire in their belly like her could really combat the right wing hysteria. Of course I could be completely wrong and it'll backfire spectacularly.

let it backfire then - the haters are going to hate either way - it's time the good guys started playing offense

Who is AOC?

Quote from: Guybrush on Feb 19, 2023, 03:45 PMWho is AOC?

our greatest hope

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/he-gets-us-responds-aocs-attack-christian-super-bowl-ads

Quote from: TheNonSexual OccultHawk on Feb 18, 2023, 10:41 PMowning a house in this neighborhood kind of forces your hand ...
i know i probably represent higher rent snd gentrification to the guy - once white people elbow in rent goes up - i'm sorry about that too - i wish i had a way not to be a part of that problem besides spending three times as much for the same house in a white neighborhood which i couldn't do and i'm not willing to do

Wow! It sounds like you are already living with a consequence of climate change that I was looking at recently: in Miami people are moving out of low-lying property, which is pushing up prices in other areas. The original, poor residentents of anywhere above sea-level are finding themselves priced out by newcomers...the bad news being that this is just the start of what could one day become an apocalypse-style civil war to control the high ground, not just Miami, but everywhere.
__________________________

As for dem nominations, I think E Warren would be a good candidate. I don't know how popular she is, but she speaks well imo: not only does she always have a plan, but she laughs at herself about it too. A very refreshing change from the frequently planless GOP. Well, they have that Repeal And Replace one, don't they, although we don't hear much about it these days.

To me, Biden shouldn't be a contender at all: are people not doing the math? He's, what, 81 years old; he could have a bunch of health issues between now and election time 2024. If he makes it to the Dem nominations, he'd be campaigning to be the most powerful man in the world right up to age 86.
I don't think that's a good idea: it reminds me of the British and French, who, at the outbreak of WW I, pulled out all the old generals from previous wars and put them in charge again. It was their outdated thinking that led to the tragic bloodbath that was The Western Front. I don't mind a bit of reverence for old age and experience, but it's a mistake to give the most important jobs in your country to people well beyond normal retiring age. What's the logic? You're too old to be efficient in a normal job - time for you to run the country instead.

Quote from: Guybrush on Feb 19, 2023, 03:45 PMWho is AOC?

Mrs. Waffles Ocasio-Cortez. She's more or less the unofficial Progressive leader in Congress. fairly controversial in her own way and is to the well to the left of her party, the Democrats.

QuoteWow! It sounds like you are already living with a consequence of climate change that I was looking at recently: in Miami people are moving out of low-lying property, which is pushing up prices in other areas. The original, poor residentents of anywhere above sea-level are finding themselves priced out by newcomers...the bad news being that this is just the start of what could one day become an apocalypse-style civil war to control the high ground, not just Miami, but everywhere.

i live 650 miles from miami but climate change definitely has impacted the culture and forced integration and displaced the poor

my house is ineligible for insurance 🤷�♂️ and at some point we'll be permanently flooded but well after miami which is constantly dry flooding- the water keeps pouring in rain or shine - but as south florida and the beach communities get washed away my plot gets more valuable and it's going to remain habitable for the rest of my life unless there's a nuclear war or something- this place has decades left and i don't

as for an apocalyptic civil war - lfg

there's already a war being waged against the poor - people have a hard time seeing it though - people just can't get it in their heads that depriving the poor from essentials because they can't pay is just as evil as any other reason to discriminate

and the savage nature of weaponizing the penal system against the poor is definitely class warfare

but history has shown that when the poor finally fight back they are merciless when it comes to evening the score

i say this a lot but people think the rich and the right wing have a monopoly on controlling violence but they don't- they bleed same as anyone else

Quote from: Guybrush on Feb 19, 2023, 03:45 PMWho is AOC?

She's like any other elected member of US House, except that she's compassionate, young, intelligent and ....

the florida attack on lgbt continues

all three of these books have a pro-lgbt message

https://weartv.com/news/local/escambia-school-board-reviews-banning-three-books-from-libraries

this is direct targeting of lgbt as a result of the desantis hate legislation

everything that doesn't reinforce the fundamentalist christian right's obsession that heterosexual love is the only acceptable kind of love is currently successfully being targeted

this is an intense hate campaign from a pre fully fascist government and right now they are winning

this is not alarmist hyperbole this is definitely real

Donald Dillbeck Blasts Ron DeSantis in Last Words Before Florida Execution (https://www.newsweek.com/donald-dillbeck-blasts-ron-desantis-last-words-florida-execution-1782159)

Quote from: Psy-Fi on Feb 24, 2023, 02:30 PMDonald Dillbeck Blasts Ron DeSantis in Last Words Before Florida Execution (https://www.newsweek.com/donald-dillbeck-blasts-ron-desantis-last-words-florida-execution-1782159)

pure gold

Welp, after seeing what's happening in Tennessee, it looks like it's only a matter of time before I'll have to Anne Frank it up in my house for the rest of my life because a bunch of whiny babies can't handle seeing male assigned people in dresses.

Land of the free my fucking ass.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b4/44/61/b444614bde4a91b0d5432ef3340ec2c6.gif)

it must feel really bad to be accused of wanting to hurt children

edited to add "must"

I know, Hawk. The best thing you can probably do is ignore the Neanderthals over at MB. You're really making an effort at bettering yourself here and we can see it. We have your back. :)

Neanderthals invented the flute which was probably the first non-percussion instrument ever

That explains Musicbanter :laughing:

Quote from: Rubber Soul on Feb 25, 2023, 02:57 AMI know, Hawk. The best thing you can probably do is ignore the Neanderthals over at MB. You're really making an effort at bettering yourself here and we can see it. We have your back. :)

the only actual solution is a charity MMA event between the Batlord and OH.  You can't just sweep these types of things under the rug. They can only be resolved in the octogon.

DeSantis is on track to win California

It's not like Biden or Harris have done anything to inspire voters

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/24/desantis-leads-trump-california-matchup-00084356

What are the chances of Trump running next year?

Close to 100%?

Quote from: jimmy jazz on Feb 26, 2023, 05:34 AMWhat are the chances of Trump running next year?

he's already campaigning

the say he has 35% of the republican base and with a foundation like that you're hard to beat

i actually think the nickname Ron DeSanctimonious is really brilliant because republicans want a cowboy not a goodie goodie

I saw that on his wiki page with all his other nicknames for people. Most of them are the same again and again but that one was pretty good.

George Bush called Putin 'Pooty Poots' and 'Ostrich Legs'  :laughing:

if he had called biden sloppy joe he'd still be president

Yeah but he's a fucking child. What president or candidate resorts to such immature name-calling? Suits him, perfectly: shows the level of his brain and his lowbrow humour. Pathetic. Still, in a straight fight who would win? Jesus or Trump?

These days, Trump would just say he's Jesus (and he has referred to himself as the messiah), and some people would be stupid enough to believe him.

Quote from: Trollheart on Feb 26, 2023, 05:32 PMYeah but he's a fucking child. What president or candidate resorts to such immature name-calling? Suits him, perfectly: shows the level of his brain and his lowbrow humour. Pathetic. Still, in a straight fight who would win? Jesus or Trump?

Jesus easily

Quote from: Rubber Soul on Feb 26, 2023, 05:42 PMThese days, Trump would just say he's Jesus (and he has referred to himself as the messiah), and some people would be stupid enough to believe him.

Q-anonism will probably be bigger than Christianity in 500 years.

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgWgG3fq/B1-FA7390-02-B3-44-B6-B4-C5-96-CCE5-C6-BD10.jpg)

this is behind a paywall in the nytimes

it doesn't even mention that he specifically targets lgbt plus - what's next an article pointing out that pneumonia isn't that bad while ignoring the respiratory complications?

even if you think i'm a total hyperbolic doomer you have to admit the "it can't happen here" crowd are refusing to learn from history

when a minority is being targeted by multiple pieces of legislation across the country that's a serious matter

Agreed. As usual our voices are being ignored and shoved aside so the cishets can tell us everything's fine. This isn't really boiling frog syndrome, it's a bunch of frogs boiling while the other frogs sit and stare from outside the pot asking us what we're so afraid of.

But it's the NYT, they've made their transphobia plain and blatant with that article defending JK Rowling a couple weeks ago.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Feb 27, 2023, 07:58 PMAgreed. As usual our voices are being ignored and shoved aside so the cishets can tell us everything's fine. This isn't really boiling frog syndrome, it's a bunch of frogs boiling while the other frogs sit and stare from outside the pot asking us what we're so afraid of.

But it's the NYT, they've made their transphobia plain and blatant with that article defending JK Rowling a couple weeks ago.

i don't know the numbers but i've heard gay men and lesbians say transphobic stuff too

i tried the find the most egregious tweet or statement from rowling - what's the most offensive

i don't quite get it about TERFs either - if they want their own space isn't that something everyone has a right to?

since the penis is the primary instrument of rape i can understand why they don't want any around - even if they're carefully tucked away

are they advocating that no branches of feminism should embrace trans women or are they just saying that's not our scene

i've read like two paragraphs on it so i don't really know what they believe

i guess a huge part of the nitty gritty is you either think trans women are women or you don't

like basically everyone my age i spent 4 and a half decades not even remotely entertaining the idea that women could not have a vagina - i'll call anybody what they want to be called but really believing it is not so simple - i get that what i believe can be wrong but that one is a hell of an ask - i read lots of theory on the differences between sex and gender when i was in college and thought i had a handle on it but the non-binary thing seemingly applied to sex and not just gender - that's a very strong shift - i'm not one of those who says if you have a penis you're a man end of story - even raw biology isn't that simple - but with sports and who goes to which prison and all that - i don't like the people who amplify those issues but i don't see a simple answer either

Quote from: Dreams on Feb 28, 2023, 12:33 AMi don't know the numbers but i've heard gay men and lesbians say transphobic stuff too

i tried the find the most egregious tweet or statement from rowling - what's the most offensive

i don't quite get it about TERFs either - if they want their own space isn't that something everyone has a right to?

since the penis is the primary instrument of rape i can understand why they don't want any around - even if they're carefully tucked away

are they advocating that no branches of feminism should embrace trans women or are they just saying that's not our scene

i've read like two paragraphs on it so i don't really know what they believe

i guess a huge part of the nitty gritty is you either think trans women are women or you don't

like basically everyone my age i spent 4 and a half decades not even remotely entertaining the idea that women could not have a vagina - i'll call anybody what they want to be called but really believing it is not so simple - i get that what i believe can be wrong but that one is a hell of an ask - i read lots of theory on the differences between sex and gender when i was in college and thought i had a handle on it but the non-binary thing seemingly applied to sex and not just gender - that's a very strong shift - i'm not one of those who says if you have a penis you're a man end of story - even raw biology isn't that simple - but with sports and who goes to which prison and all that - i don't like the people who amplify those issues but i don't see a simple answer either

TERFs hate us even if we remove our penises, we will never be woman enough for them because we were raised and socialized to be male. They see us as perverts cosplaying women because we dare have a different concept of what gender is than they do. Because we dare present the way that makes us feel right in our own skin. They make it all about them.

I don't even care if they want to make cis women only spaces, that's their right as private owners. But the minute the government enforces strict gender conformity and denies hormone therapy to certain people based on the way they were born, that's when it's beyond the point of civil discussion, it's just tyranny.

I'm fine with people not respecting my womanhood, it's a free country and they can have their opinion. But that's not what they're doing, they're voting in politicians who disrespect my personhood and personal freedom to do what I want with my body. You would think TERFs would stand in solidarity with other groups who have been oppressed by the right wing in a post-Roe world. But they spout the exact same rhetoric as the Christian theocratic fascists despite claiming to be feminists.

Feminism is meant to help everyone, not just cis women, not just women period. If feminists throw other marginalized groups under the bus, then they're doing the same thing patriarchy did to them.

So that's my take on TERFs.

this isn't a challenge as in i don't believe you but do you have a link to any feminist theorist saying these things?

(https://i.postimg.cc/D0WTdjm6/E74-A666-F-F1-E2-4-ECF-A280-C31974-DF99-CA.jpg)

Quote from: Dreams on Feb 28, 2023, 04:56 AMthis isn't a challenge as in i don't believe you but do you have a link to any feminist theorist saying these things?

No, not really. I'm no feminist scholar, just someone who calls out hateful and discriminatory rhetoric when she sees it.

Ultimately I don't think you can consider anyone an authority when it comes to feminism, every feminist interprets things differently, heck I'm sure there are plenty of people who think I'm not a feminist at all.

Honestly I'm just exhausted from the discourse.

I'll say this about future POTUS Ronnie DeSantis - he's got a few levels to climb before he's as fascist as Stanford University.  :laughing:

politics aside i know you have good taste in music so it surprises me you're not put off by how aesthetically unappealing that video is

i actually agree that stanford deserves to be ridiculed but do it with some style

and don't be so cavalier about desantis- i like you too much to even see that as sincere

that's one reason i wanted the woke thread put down - i felt bad about something you said

i know people on here have similar feelings about me ... well maybe idk - but come on dude keep the plot (for us 💕)

I can't speak for other people but to be fair, even though I think your thinking is often very oversimplistic and I often strongly disagree with you, my feelings about Anteater/Nimbly's opnions and thinking are very different

Nimbly's opinions read like those of someone who has the privilege to be out of touch and think politics is just fun and games, nothing to be taken too seriously or anything. Feels like he just wants to grill, you know?

Even if he's just being an edgy contrarian, his "takes" come off as quite callous and dismissive of the living breathing people that Desantis and his ilk have targeted and attacked.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 04, 2023, 11:50 PMNimbly's opinions read like those of someone who has the privilege to be out of touch and think politics is just fun and games, nothing to be taken too seriously or anything. Feels like he just wants to grill, you know?

Even if he's just being an edgy contrarian, his "takes" come off as quite callous and dismissive of the living breathing people that Desantis and his ilk have targeted and attacked.

The point is that fascism is clearly overrated if universities can literally ban words and nobody does anything about it. I remember when school districts took Harry Potter out of some libraries in a few different states.  And what did the kids and their parents do? They bought the books somewhere else.  Problem solved.

The bizarre thing to me is that there are still kids who even go to the library to read at all. Every major study I've read over the past couple years shows that kids in these age groups aren't even reading for fun or checking out books to begin with. If DeSantis thinks the libraries are where kids are learning "woke" stuff, he's sorely out of touch with reality.  Maybe teach the kids how to actually appreciate books first before you embark on holy crusades against books with 3rd graders giving head to older men or w/e it was that set the parents off at those school board meetings.

DeSantis may have ultimately made the right moves in Florida on lockdowns and a few other things, but I don't think using state power in a vague and pointless way is the answer if you want to have nuanced conversations about sex education in the classrooms. I think it's going to blow back on him.

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 04, 2023, 10:03 PMpolitics aside i know you have good taste in music so it surprises me you're not put off by how aesthetically unappealing that video is

i actually agree that stanford deserves to be ridiculed but do it with some style

and don't be so cavalier about desantis- i like you too much to even see that as sincere

that's one reason i wanted the woke thread put down - i felt bad about something you said

i know people on here have similar feelings about me ... well maybe idk - but come on dude keep the plot (for us 💕)

Aesthetics aren't the point. Mullen is a smart guy who knows what he's doing.  He's irreverent but gets to meat of things via the real world equivalent of silly side questing.  He's essentially done the same thing at conservative universities as well.

I'm always curious and enjoy political discussion. That's it.  If that comes off as callous, then so be it.  At the end of the day, it isn't like anyone can take responsibility for this stuff anyway.  Whether they're a Christian nutjob who misses the point of their own religion or a trans dude on TikTok berating cisgender people to "date me or else", conflict is just a given when you have so many different groups all believing they should be the ones with the power in society, with an underlying and often times misguided assumption (whether you admit it or not) that such power will come at the expense of every other group (however you define that) in some form or fashion.  That's the core assumption humanity is going to have to find a way to get past.

dude - that list has been revoked and it was never policy to police words officially - it was really just a list of ways to think about the etymology of language for people who want to be more aware

i do think the left is responsible for hindering the free exchange of ideas especially on west coast and north east campuses and that's problematic

it's not fascist though

if you don't want or refuse to see what desantis is doing is a calculated step by step attack on lgbt and how frighteningly different that is - i just don't get how

synth is telling you she's being targeted

if you don't have her back that is so weak

i object to encroachments on academic freedom from any political camp but when actual government legislation is being passed to target lgbt that's an entirely different issue - it's our moral duty to stand with lgbt - i know my commitment to free speech including hate speech is alienating to some members of disenfranchised communities but i'm a free speech absolutist and for good reason

but targeted legislation against a certain group - that's gun loading time

QuoteMullen is a smart guy who knows what he's doing

that video sucks

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 05, 2023, 04:10 AMdude - that list has been revoked and it was never policy to police words officially - it was really just a list of ways to think about the etymology of language for people who want to be more aware

i do think the left is responsible for hindering the free exchange of ideas especially on west coast and north east campuses and that's problematic

it's not fascist though

if you don't want or refuse to see what desantis is doing is a calculated step by step attack on lgbt and how frighteningly different that is - i just don't get how

synth is telling you she's being targeted

if you don't have her back that is so weak

i object to encroachments on academic freedom from any political camp but when actual government legislation is being passed to target lgbt that's an entirely different issue - it's our moral duty to stand with lgbt - i know my commitment to free speech including hate speech is alienating to some members of disenfranchised communities but i'm a free speech absolutist and for good reason

but targeted legislation against a certain group - that's gun loading time

I'm curious now, since so much is going on. Can you point to a specific bill that is currently preventing trans people from buying a car or drinking from the same water fountain or getting a bank loan? Major stuff that isn't protected by the federal government already.  You know, something that doesn't involve the contentious "men competing in women's sports" topic? I've scoured quite a few bills and I'm coming up a bit empty on LGBT legislation that is outside that particular purview or something limited to public schools. Or maybe Synth knows of something specific.  If there is, I'd like to know more about it.

Also, what do you mean you mean when you say your a free speech absolutist in regards to hate speech?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/politics/tennessee-ban-drag-show-performances-governor/index.html

QuoteThe bill, which the Tennessee House passed last week, defines an adult cabaret performance as a performance "that features topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest, or similar entertainers."

a man wearing a suit can read to a children but a man wearing a dress cannot

Yep. Trump also said that if he is re-elected, he will ban trans healthcare for all people of all ages. I can only assume Desantis has similar plans.

And Tennessee is also forcibly detransitioning minors.

The "gender impersonators" thing is so frightening in how it could be used against people, not just trans people, who dare not conform to some ancient court's gender stereotypes.

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 05, 2023, 04:38 AMhttps://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/politics/tennessee-ban-drag-show-performances-governor/index.html

QuoteThe bill, which the Tennessee House passed last week, defines an adult cabaret performance as a performance "that features topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest, or similar entertainers."

a man wearing a suit can read to a children but a man wearing a dress cannot

Why would anyone take their kid somewhere where a topless stripper is reading books?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-knowles-calls-for-eradication-of-transgender-people-at-conservative-political-action-conference (https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-knowles-calls-for-eradication-of-transgender-people-at-conservative-political-action-conference)

And maybe this will put the current threat out there more plainly.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/and-tango-makes-three-florida-school-district-bans-a-book-on-penguins

Quote"The fascination is still on that it's two male penguins raising a chick," board member David Williams said ahead of the vote. "So, I'll be voting to remove the book from our libraries."

they have removed it from the library

i don't think they have removed any books on the grounds that it a heterosexual couple was raising a child

if you don't see these as red flags you're blind

the message being sent is loud and clear - they're saying it's ok to discriminate against lgbt

plus desantis passing legislation to financially punish disney for opposing the don't say gay bill

sorry if that doesn't look exactly like jim crow era racism - it's different but the intentions are the same - humilate instill fear and dehumanize

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 04:44 AMWhy would anyone take their kid somewhere where a topless stripper is reading books?

Nobody said anything about topless strippers. This bill will be invoked to ban "performance" (a very loose category of actions) by "gender impersonators" (which means whatever the transphobes invoking the law want it to mean) in any public place, children are allowed most places, you know.

Synth, if your talking about Michael Knowles, pretty sure he's referring to what these scientists concluded about gender identity.  I read that same Beast article so I was just reading a bit more from what they cited.

No Biological Evidence For 'Gender Identity' Exists, Group Of Scientists, Researchers Says (https://www.dailywire.com/news/no-biological-evidence-for-gender-identity-exists-group-of-scientists-researchers-says)

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 05, 2023, 04:50 AM

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 04:44 AMWhy would anyone take their kid somewhere where a topless stripper is reading books?

Nobody said anything about topless strippers. This bill will be invoked to ban "performance" (a very loose category of actions) by "gender impersonators" (which means whatever the transphobes invoking the law want it to mean) in any public place, children are allowed most places, you know.

Oh, I was referring to the language in the first part of the bill you quoted.  It mentioned strippers and exotic dancers and stuff.

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 04:44 AM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 05, 2023, 04:38 AMhttps://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/politics/tennessee-ban-drag-show-performances-governor/index.html

QuoteThe bill, which the Tennessee House passed last week, defines an adult cabaret performance as a performance "that features topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest, or similar entertainers."

a man wearing a suit can read to a children but a man wearing a dress cannot

Why would anyone take their kid somewhere where a topless stripper is reading books?

i'm done with this subject with you

the point has been made crystal clear

i'm disappointed in you

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 04:53 AMSynth, if your talking about Michael Knowles, pretty sure he's referring to what these scientists concluded about gender identity.

No Biological Evidence For 'Gender Identity' Exists, Group Of Scientists, Researchers Says (https://www.dailywire.com/news/no-biological-evidence-for-gender-identity-exists-group-of-scientists-researchers-says)

The fact that you're linking me to the Daily Wire is... very telling to say the least.

But no, I'm actually referring to the part where he said that transgender people must be eradicated.

And de-legitimizing our cultural identity is a textbook first step for genocide.

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 04:53 AMOh, I was referring to the language in the first part of the bill you quoted.  It mentioned strippers and exotic dancers and stuff.

The point is that the bill (especially the "male or female impersonators" bit) is vague enough to cover so much that can and will be used against any gender non conforming people doing things in public places.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 05, 2023, 04:55 AM

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 04:53 AMSynth, if your talking about Michael Knowles, pretty sure he's referring to what these scientists concluded about gender identity.

No Biological Evidence For 'Gender Identity' Exists, Group Of Scientists, Researchers Says (https://www.dailywire.com/news/no-biological-evidence-for-gender-identity-exists-group-of-scientists-researchers-says)

The fact that you're linking me to the Daily Wire is... very telling to say the least.

But no, I'm actually referring to the part where he said that transgender people must be eradicated.

And de-legitimizing our cultural identity is a textbook first step for genocide.

Having read your article, it appears that he defines being transgender as a condition that's alterable in some way.  He doesn't seem to define it as some kind of physical or immutable characteristic based on that Daily Beast article you linked to.

The reason I linked to the Daily Wire article is to give you context as to the source of his commentary. You brought him up, so it's relevant to the discussion.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 05, 2023, 05:00 AMThe point is that the bill (especially the "male or female impersonators" bit) is vague enough to cover so much that can and will be used against any gender non conforming people doing things in public places.

So you can be trans in public and walk around in whatever clothing you want but you can't do a pole dance? I agree that its way too vague.  What a pointless bill.

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 05, 2023, 04:55 AM

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 04:44 AM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 05, 2023, 04:38 AMhttps://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/politics/tennessee-ban-drag-show-performances-governor/index.html

QuoteThe bill, which the Tennessee House passed last week, defines an adult cabaret performance as a performance "that features topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest, or similar entertainers."

a man wearing a suit can read to a children but a man wearing a dress cannot

Why would anyone take their kid somewhere where a topless stripper is reading books?

i'm done with this subject with you

the point has been made crystal clear

i'm disappointed in you

I already got your point.  I was just pointing out the bill's language is nonsensically vague and stupid since the vast majority of people aren't taking kids to places where strippers or drag performers would be.  It's cruel and punitive.

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 05:03 AMHaving read your article, it appears that he defines being transgender as a condition that's alterable in some way.  He doesn't seem to define it as some kind of physical or immutable characteristic based on that Daily Beast article you linked to.

The reason I linked to the Daily Wire article is to give you context as to the source of his commentary. You brought him up, so it's relevant to the discussion.

I frankly don't give a shit how conservatives define being transgender. None of that is the point, and you are either being deliberately obtuse or you aren't anywhere near educated enough on this subject to speak on it. I want to assume the best of you, please listen to trans voices on this.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 05, 2023, 05:14 AM

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 05:03 AMHaving read your article, it appears that he defines being transgender as a condition that's alterable in some way.  He doesn't seem to define it as some kind of physical or immutable characteristic based on that Daily Beast article you linked to.

The reason I linked to the Daily Wire article is to give you context as to the source of his commentary. You brought him up, so it's relevant to the discussion.

I frankly don't give a shit how conservatives define being transgender. None of that is the point, and you are either being deliberately obtuse or you aren't anywhere near educated enough on this subject to speak on it. I want to assume the best of you, please listen to trans voices on this.

It is the point, because I'm not the one who needs convincing. It's all the other people out there who care about definitions of biological vs some abstract sense of identity far more than I do. If you believe you are something, then nobody should be able to tell you otherwise.  It's not an emotional thing for me, but it's part of the world we live in, no?

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 05:26 AMIt is the point, because I'm not the one who needs convincing. It's all the other people out there who care about definitions of biological vs some abstract sense of identity far more than I do. If you believe you are something, then nobody should be able to tell you otherwise.

I appreciate this, thank you. It's sad that our right to exist is up for debate in a place that prides itself as being a supposed land of the free. The way you came off it felt to me like you were seeing the conservatives' view on us as a legitimate stance, I misunderstood you and for that I apologize.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 05, 2023, 05:33 AM

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 05:26 AMIt is the point, because I'm not the one who needs convincing. It's all the other people out there who care about definitions of biological vs some abstract sense of identity far more than I do. If you believe you are something, then nobody should be able to tell you otherwise.

I appreciate this, thank you. It's sad that our right to exist is up for debate in a place that prides itself as being a supposed land of the free. The way you came off it felt to me like you were seeing the conservatives' view on us as a legitimate stance, I misunderstood you and for that I apologize.

No problem. I appreciate that you took the time to answer all my questions. It isn't really my place to speak for anyone who identifies as transgender.  All I can say is that the opposition cares a lot more about the biological question of it all for reasons that are not particularly relevant.  But what they don't understand is that the answer doesn't matter if the outcome is going to hurt someone.

Could someone explain to me why, if DeSatan is punishing Disney, they don't just fuck off out of Florida? I mean, I know they've been there for decades, and it would be an expensive move, but the revenue the state would lose if Disney "outsourced" or transferred to another, more liberal or at least tolerant state, should surely put the gun in their hands and force DeSantis to back down, no? And if Florida DID lose Disney, then surely he would lose all his votes? Jobs? Prestige? Tradition? Revenue income? That would kill him. So why are Disney just bending over and taking it when the power is in their hands?

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 05, 2023, 04:52 PMCould someone explain to me why, if DeSatan is punishing Disney, they don't just fuck off out of Florida? I mean, I know they've been there for decades, and it would be an expensive move, but the revenue the state would lose if Disney "outsourced" or transferred to another, more liberal or at least tolerant state, should surely put the gun in their hands and force DeSantis to back down, no? And if Florida DID lose Disney, then surely he would lose all his votes? Jobs? Prestige? Tradition? Revenue income? That would kill him. So why are Disney just bending over and taking it when the power is in their hands?

disney isn't going to intentionally lose money to make a point

tourists should boycott florida though but that's unlikely- orlando miami the keys and everywhere with a beach for spring break

then there's college football florida state and florida and the orange bowl game

baseball spring training

it's on and on

Come on that's bull. They don't even have to do it, just threaten it. Can you imagine the panic Florida would be in if Disney announced they were even "considering relocating to another state in the wake of recent state interference in the running of Disneyworld" or whatever? The threat would be enough. People would be up in arms, surely? Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me a very large percentage of Florida's annual income does not come thanks to an oversized mouse and duck everyone wants to see? They may have other revenue streams, but this has to be on a par with, I don't know, Madison Square Gardens closing in New York or The Eiffel Tower being relocated outside Paris?

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 05, 2023, 05:45 PMCome on that's bull. They don't even have to do it, just threaten it. Can you imagine the panic Florida would be in if Disney announced they were even "considering relocating to another state in the wake of recent state interference in the running of Disneyworld" or whatever? The threat would be enough. People would be up in arms, surely? Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me a very large percentage of Florida's annual income does not come thanks to an oversized mouse and duck everyone wants to see? They may have other revenue streams, but this has to be on a par with, I don't know, Madison Square Gardens closing in New York or The Eiffel Tower being relocated outside Paris?

it's a nice sentiment but trying such a bluff would be bad business and no one would flinch - they'd just look stupid and their stock would tank

disney thinks long term and they consider despite hiccups along the way - gay acceptance is the future and they don't want to be on the wrong side of history

still they want everyone's money despite thier politics

i'm not against disney moving to new orleans or atlanta or whatever- i think that would be a bad ass flex but it's not even on the radar

disney sea world and universal studios are all in orlando- they're in a synergistic money making mecca

also disney is probably the most progressive major employer in florida - desantis will move on and they can get their economic zone back - or they could move and who knows about the devil you don't know - like disney in new jersey just isn't happening

like i said - a boycott is the realistic play

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 05, 2023, 06:27 PMit's a nice sentiment but trying such a bluff would be bad business and no one would flinch - they'd just look stupid and their stock would tank

That sums it up in a proverbial nutshell.

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Mar 05, 2023, 04:44 AM

Quote from: Dreams on Mar 05, 2023, 04:38 AMhttps://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/politics/tennessee-ban-drag-show-performances-governor/index.html

QuoteThe bill, which the Tennessee House passed last week, defines an adult cabaret performance as a performance "that features topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest, or similar entertainers."

a man wearing a suit can read to a children but a man wearing a dress cannot

Why would anyone take their kid somewhere where a topless stripper is reading books?

can I ask a better question? Why not?

My favorite baby sitter growing up was a stripper who always wore a thong so she could tan her ass. She really didn't have much of an ass or even tits for that matter.  But that was OK cause neither did any of the girls in my class at the time. 

Can I ask an even better question? You had a stripper as a babysitter? Where were all these women when I was a kid???

Technically she was babysitting my sister who was like 6. I was like 12 but my dad didn't trust me watching my sister. Probably a good choice. I was definitely a fan of the arrangement.

She used to show me and my friend someof the shit she would wear at the strip club. Not wearing them she just showed us the actual clothes. And she told us about how pissed she got at her boyfriend cause she caught him jerking off in the car outside looking at some dirty magazine :laughing:

In retrospect she might have been an actual groomer.

Quote from: Guybrush on Feb 17, 2023, 11:31 PMI'm not up to speed on Desantis at all, but maybe there's a Last Week Tonight episode I can watch.

One just came out:


The man seems like a huge knob.

Oh, he is definitely a piece of work.

Quote from: Psy-Fi on Mar 07, 2023, 01:37 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/nhxGqBJ6/D2024.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHMDCB9Q)

that could be misconstrued as racist i suggest we kill this thread

(https://media.tenor.com/XZLJcpTRNtsAAAAC/florida-bugs-bunny.gif)

https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-florida-undercover-agents-drag-show-found-nothing-lewd-2023-3

  DeSantis administration sent undercover agents to an Orlando drag show and they found nothing wrong with it. The state is still trying to punish the venue.

after the pulse mass shooting he sends the police to attack and not protect

i'm not even sure if it's about political expediency or of it's just pure hate

like before i thought he was fueling is campaign with hate but now i'm thinking he wants to be powerful so he can exercise his hatefulness

wikipedia says he worked directly with detainees at guantanamo bay - he was probably involved with torturing people - the entire operation of the place is based on torture so in a sense there's no doubt but there's probably also a behind the scene story - obviously we have no clue how bad things get there but i'm sure we don't know the worst of it

it is  comic book levels of villainy

https://apnews.com/article/d3a9c91f4b5383a5bf6df6f7d8ff65b6

QuoteThe rule change would ban lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity from grades 4 to 12

the school district i used to teach in recently had a board meeting that ran seven hours with around 90% of the speakers espousing anti lgbtq rhetoric

speaking time is limited to 3 minutes or 5 minutes based on what forms who filled out in advance

but anyway that many conservative bigots were there

nothing like this has happened in my life where a governor generated this much vitriol against a minority

i almost feel like it's aggressive (like synth i know you don't like being constantly reminded) to keep bumping this thread but we're not supposed to ignore this stuff either

i made a donation to GLAAD which for me is probably the best i can do as far as being part of the solution and not the problem with the energy i have now - i'm tired

i really think it's time to act because this is starting to feel really wrong

I don't wanna sound like a judgy Jerome or Negative Nelly, but it is weird seeing the US and what seems to be some of the conversations being had over there. LGBTQ negatively affecting school (?), how much of an issue is it really? Like in terms of things that corrupt americas youth (since schools are mentioned, I just assume they care about this), how high does lgbtq-related things rank? By my own metrics, I just assume it'd rank somewhere close to the bottom - as in not a problematic issue at all.

As a society, shouldn't you be rather be talking about health care, education or poverty/homelessness? It's like Trump going on about building the wall. Don't you have more pressing matters and better ways to spend your funds, your time and your energy?

Quote from: Guybrush on Mar 23, 2023, 02:29 PMI don't wanna sound like a judgy Jerome or Negative Nelly, but it is weird seeing the US and what seems to be some of the conversations being had over there. LGBTQ negatively affecting school (?), how much of an issue is it really? Like in terms of things that corrupt americas youth (since schools are mentioned, I just assume they care about this), how high does lgbtq-related things rank? By my own metrics, I just assume it'd rank somewhere close to the bottom - as in not a problematic issue at all.

As a society, shouldn't you be rather be talking about health care, education or poverty/homelessness? It's like Trump going on about building the wall. Don't you have more pressing matters and better ways to spend your funds, your time and your energy?

issues centered around uplifting the poor and wealth redistribution are always a top priority and normally i stay on that course because i believe wealth shields minorities from oppression almost always

but in this case certain things are happening that must not be ignored

i'd be thrilled if the cultural right left the matter alone and left lgbtq people to their own business but they won't- they keep pushing hate in both rhetoric and legislation

it is a distraction from class struggles but we can't leave a vulnerable subset unprotected when they're being targeted

i'm not obsessed with the issue (not claiming youre saying i am either) but i am obsessed with halting this intense new wave of hatred seeing as to how i'm not going to stand idle until they're firing up the ovens

beyond the present, even if this wasn't happening a certain amount of queer visibility is essential for our cultural health and to protect the psychological health of potentially isolated queer youth

and we need to help the poor

Does anyone not believe that DeSantis is going to run on a campaign slogan of MASA - Make America Straight Again?  :rage:  :yikes:  :palmface:

Quote from: Trollheart on Mar 23, 2023, 06:21 PMDoes anyone not believe that DeSantis is going to run on a campaign slogan of MASA - Make America Straight Again?  :rage:  :yikes:  :palmface:

well if he wins we can appropriate maga to make america gay again and we can get all the maga gear on the cheap second hand

Actually they both tie in a bit. Those that are anti-LGTBQ and minorities in general also seem obvlivious that the same politicans who would like to see gays stones in the courtyard would also like to take their Social Security away from them. In other words, the politicians exploit their hatreds even though they only really want what little they have and the electorate is too dense to figure that out.

Dont blame republicans specifically though, blame religion.  If it wasnt for the billions of people across the world believing in things that have no evidence backing them up the republican party probably wouldnt even exist as we know it here in the USA.

Quote from: Dr_Rez on Mar 25, 2023, 10:39 PMDont blame republicans specifically though, blame religion.  If it wasnt for the billions of people across the world believing in things that have no evidence backing them up the republican party probably wouldnt even exist as we know it here in the USA.

Just because I believe in Bigfoot doesn't mean I'm responsible for the Republican Party, ya dig?

As for DeSantis, is this guy actually gonna run or what? Between him and the Mr. Waffles Rodgers trade, it would appear everything is at a standstill.

Quote from: SGR on Mar 27, 2023, 01:26 PM

Quote from: Dr_Rez on Mar 25, 2023, 10:39 PMDont blame republicans specifically though, blame religion.  If it wasnt for the billions of people across the world believing in things that have no evidence backing them up the republican party probably wouldnt even exist as we know it here in the USA.

Just because I believe in Bigfoot doesn't mean I'm responsible for the Republican Party, ya dig?

As for DeSantis, is this guy actually gonna run or what? Between him and the Mr. Waffles Rodgers trade, it would appear everything is at a standstill.

It seems to me like DeSantis is laying the groundwork for a 2024 run but It also seems like he's waiting to see what happens with Trump before he announces his candidacy.

QuoteRepublican Gov. Ron DeSantis has targeted the tiny school on the shores of Sarasota Bay as a staging ground for his war on "woke." The governor and his allies say New College, a progressive school with a prominent LGBTQ+ community, is indoctrinating students with leftist ideology and should be revamped into a more conservative institution.

Students and faculty say America should take note because the transformation at New College could become a blueprint with national implications as DeSantis gears up for a likely presidential bid. 

source AP

Terrifying. And of course he has no problem with indoctrinating kids with rightist ideology.

When I was growing up I always felt the idea was "the Dem and Rep parties disagree with how this country should be run but ultimately respect each other's humanity on a baseline level", and now it's definitely just full on "Reps think liberals are all evil child groomers and they and everything they stand for must be eliminated".

Maybe it was always that way and I was young and naive. But it's never felt this grim to me before.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 30, 2023, 04:13 PMTerrifying. And of course he has no problem with indoctrinating kids with rightist ideology.

When I was growing up I always felt the idea was "the Dem and Rep parties disagree with how this country should be run but ultimately respect each other's humanity on a baseline level", and now it's definitely just full on "Reps think liberals are all evil child groomers and they and everything they stand for must be eliminated".

Maybe it was always that way and I was young and naive. But it's never felt this grim to me before.

The Democrats and Republicans definitely seem to be more hostile towards each other in general than they used to be. I think that a significant bit of that might have to do with the way the presentation of news has changed in America as well as the rise of the internet and social media over the past 20 years or so.

Quote from: Psy-Fi on Mar 30, 2023, 04:53 PM

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 30, 2023, 04:13 PMTerrifying. And of course he has no problem with indoctrinating kids with rightist ideology.

When I was growing up I always felt the idea was "the Dem and Rep parties disagree with how this country should be run but ultimately respect each other's humanity on a baseline level", and now it's definitely just full on "Reps think liberals are all evil child groomers and they and everything they stand for must be eliminated".

Maybe it was always that way and I was young and naive. But it's never felt this grim to me before.

The Democrats and Republicans definitely seem to be more hostile towards each other in general than they used to be. I think that a significant bit of that might have to do with the way the presentation of news has changed in America as well as the rise of the internet and social media over the past 20 years or so.

it's at least partly because electing a black president shook a lot of racist america and they're lashing out like a drowning swimmer or a cornered rat

it should be noted that they are losing something- their culture is being changed - that just don't understand that it's a change for the better - they're scared and without sympathizing with their politics of hatred i also understand that change really is scary

this country needs a gigantic xanax pill

i hope this post is not misinterpreted

No, I think you're spot on

I don't think they're losing anything. LGBT and minorities being allowed to live their lives happily has zero effect on anyone else or their culture. In trans people's case, the only difference is there's more of us transitioning now because all the progress we made in the Obama era made us think it was safe. I guess that was just a bit too much for the poor little conservatives to handle, us silly uppity trans people should know our place, am I right?

Edit: I don't mean to direct this at Toy Revolver of course, I'm just venting in general.

Oh I agree; basic LBGT rights won't affect them at all. Then there's the cultural shift that comes with it, and even then they're not losing anything tanglible or significant, but I think they are losing some cultural and social things like getting away with making homophobic jokes or certain gender-based social privileges (like being looked up to in certain situations just because you're a man). And that's very trivial and petty, but I think people like that perceive it as losing something significant. Or rather, they mistake it for losing something significant because they don't understand the difference and they don't see that they are in fact gaining something. They inflate a harmless change that they don't understand into a kind of imaginary phantom. It's ugly and frustrating.

Quote from: Marie Monday on Mar 30, 2023, 07:52 PMOh I agree; basic LBGT rights won't affect them at all. Then there's the cultural shift that comes with it, and even then they're not losing anything tanglible or significant, but I think they are losing some cultural and social things like getting away with making homophobic jokes or certain gender-based social privileges (like being looked up to in certain situations just because you're a man). And that's very trivial and petty, but I think people like that perceive it as losing something significant. Or rather, they mistake it for losing something significant because they don't understand the difference and they don't see that they are in fact gaining something. They inflate a harmless change that they don't understand into a kind of imaginary phantom. It's ugly and frustrating.

Yeah, for sure.

It's hard for me to relate to that mindset, the minute someone tells me a joke I told hurt them is the minute I apologize and stop telling those jokes. But even so, nobody is actually policing their jokes or their culture, they can still do literally everything they did before, it's just now there are more people calling them assholes for it. Whereas their politicians are the ones literally making laws that police everyone else, re. abortion, trans rights, etc.

So I understand their viewpoint, but it only makes them look like even more of whiny spoiled adult-children.

Well, I'm sure it's of no practical help at all, Mrs. Waffles, but we all love ya here.  :love:

^indeed

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Mar 30, 2023, 08:19 PMSo I understand their viewpoint, but it only makes them look like even more of whiny spoiled adult-children.

100%

Quotethey just don't understand that it's a change for the better

quoting myself

and to synth - yeah they're not really losing anything - they're gaining something if they are willing to learn

it's hard to say this with the right finesse

it's kind of like a child that has been taught cruelty by their parent - to help with a successful reform it helps to understand that however simplistic and obviously morally correct it might seem to their mentor actually making the change isn't easy for the cruel child

it's not obvious who is responsible to do what and how we (if i may include myself) should react in real life interactions with bigots but even in a case of violent self defense- if it was needed it should still be understood that they are a product of their situation

with desantis though no emotional quarter should be allowed because he's an active knowing instigator of hatred for self-serving purposes - he's not confused or in need of reform -

it's very difficult to express what i'm trying to say

I think the core of the right-wing reaction against trans people is more of a rejection of transhumanism and the extreme abstraction of gender identity / fluidity that comes along with that territory.  It's less of a reaction per-se to specific individuals and their experiences (which is why you see plenty of right-wing people following Blaire White for example) and more of a reaction to them hearing stuff from their left wing opponents such as "men can give birth", "biology doesn't matter", etc. etc. and other rhetoric that they feel is fundamentally antagonistic to their own lived experiences as men and women and what they believe to be hard, non-negotiable science and language (which is why they are against all the different pronouns as well).

Essentially, they see their stance as a rejection of secular paradigms that are harmful to their definition of humanity, the family unit, etc. You'll see this rejection of transhumanism in right-wing people regardless of their race or socio-economic status as well.  It's a consistent theme.

I personally think that most of them don't really care or not if the things they oppose are going to harm them in some way in their day-to-day lives  - they look at transhumanistic trends (and the moral acceptance of those ideas) in secular society as a "slippery slope" that needs to be mitigated or pushed back on from various fronts. 

Anyone could tell them that their hardline culture war is a waste of time in this era though - the medical technology / procedures they would love to point trans people to don't exist. There is no magic procedure that can "reverse" whatever it is that causes various states of dysphoria anyway, which is why gender affirming care in some form or fashion is the only feasible direction for the foreseeable future.  It's a viable option in a world without perfect solutions and/or miracles. The bigots are just gonna have to get over it. 

Of course there's a lot more nuance to this than I'm willing to dive into here, and while there are legitimate concerns about some of the science around gender affirming care for young kids and such, it doesn't justify the kind of vitriol that gets thrown around by people on the Right and even some supposed Feminists.

I agree with previous statements that religion is part of this, both in a conscious and unconscious sense.  The problem isn't limited to Christianity though.  As far as I know, every world religion except perhaps SIkhism doesn't have a particularly positive view of anything outside of the heteronormativity that the vast majority identify as.

As Troll pointed out, the proliferation of the Internet and the fact that every voice out there can get amplified in various ways is also exacerbating things.  Individual incidents that the far right and far left people do (but may  not be necessarily representative of X thing on the whole) get highlighted and turned into flashpoints to galvanize anger for clicks.

You can also blame Jerry Springer for pushing the idea into culture that trans people are trying to trick heterosexual people or w/e. So much of our popular culture has pushed the idea of some "other" being an enemy to X or Y group that it kinda astounds me that we all coexist with eachother as well as we do.

FYI, I'm speaking about all this purely based on observation.  I don't advocate any viewpoint that's discriminatory against others. Just trying to provide a little clarity since it is a complicated topic.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/politics/rebekah-jones-desantis-florida-son-arrest/index.html

desantis has been targeting this woman and her family since she reported on him releasing false covid data

this is just using a goon squad to go after her son

if you know the backstory you'll know what i'm saying is true

Yeah I remember that one. Fucking arsehole; guns and everything as if she were some armed terrorist.
It's darkly amusing how they say due to the kid's age they can't publish his name, but furnish you with every other clue: who his mother is, what age he is - I mean, how many thirteen-year old sons has she got? Gobshites.

Quote from: Trollheart on Apr 08, 2023, 07:35 PMYeah I remember that one. Fucking arsehole; guns and everything as if she were some armed terrorist.
It's darkly amusing how they say due to the kid's age they can't publish his name, but furnish you with every other clue: who his mother is, what age he is - I mean, how many thirteen-year old sons has she got? Gobshites.

they have to run the story though


this is going to pass soon

QuoteThe bills would expose people to felony charges for sheltering, hiring and transporting undocumented immigrants; require hospitals to ask patients their immigration status and report to the state; invalidate out-of-state driver's licenses issued to undocumented immigrants; and direct the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to provide assistance to federal authorities in enforcing the nation's immigration laws.

Under the proposed new bills, a person could be charged with a third-degree felony for knowingly transporting, concealing or harboring undocumented immigrants, punishable by up to five years in prison. While sponsors have said the legislation is not intended to target ordinary Floridians in their day-to-day lives, its potential applications are broad, legal analysts said: An American adult child of an undocumented immigrant driving a parent, a lawyer driving a client to court or someone driving a sports team that had a player without U.S. legal status could be exposed to criminal charges.

Similarly, the law could also apply to a landlord who rents property to an undocumented family or someone who has an undocumented person living in their home, such as a housekeeper or caretaker.

MAGA Attack Ad Rips Into Ron DeSantis' Gross Pudding Habits (https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-attack-ad-rips-into-ron-desantis-gross-pudding-habits)

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 02:01 AMMAGA Attack Ad Rips Into Ron DeSantis' Gross Pudding Habits (https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-attack-ad-rips-into-ron-desantis-gross-pudding-habits)

i'f rather kill myself than work until i'm 70 -

i'd vote for hitler before i voted for someone who thinks i should work until i'm 70

if the dems support that i'll vote republican

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 15, 2023, 03:17 AM

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 02:01 AMMAGA Attack Ad Rips Into Ron DeSantis' Gross Pudding Habits (https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-attack-ad-rips-into-ron-desantis-gross-pudding-habits)

i'f rather kill myself than work until i'm 70 -

i'd vote for hitler before i voted for someone who thinks i should work until i'm 70

if the dems support that i'll vote republican

I don't disagree (except probably on the Hitler part, but only retrospectively).

But I'm a millennial, so I'll be working until I die.

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 03:36 AM

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 15, 2023, 03:17 AM

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 02:01 AMMAGA Attack Ad Rips Into Ron DeSantis' Gross Pudding Habits (https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-attack-ad-rips-into-ron-desantis-gross-pudding-habits)

i'f rather kill myself than work until i'm 70 -

i'd vote for hitler before i voted for someone who thinks i should work until i'm 70

if the dems support that i'll vote republican

I don't disagree (except probably on the Hitler part, but only retrospectively).

But I'm a millennial, so I'll be working until I die.

if you get stuck in a manual profession with long hours death you'll probably give out in your early sixties

the 70 thing is racist and classist af because the working poor can't last that long

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 15, 2023, 04:34 AM

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 03:36 AM

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 15, 2023, 03:17 AM

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 02:01 AMMAGA Attack Ad Rips Into Ron DeSantis' Gross Pudding Habits (https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-attack-ad-rips-into-ron-desantis-gross-pudding-habits)

i'f rather kill myself than work until i'm 70 -

i'd vote for hitler before i voted for someone who thinks i should work until i'm 70

if the dems support that i'll vote republican

I don't disagree (except probably on the Hitler part, but only retrospectively).

But I'm a millennial, so I'll be working until I die.

if you get stuck in a manual profession with long hours death you'll probably give out in your early sixties

the 70 thing is racist and classist af because the working poor can't last that long

I'm a software engineer - so I may experience back problems due to sitting on my ass all day

Retirement kinda sucks anyway unless you got that sweet $$$.  If you have relatives, they're just going to shove you into a nursing home the first chance they get.

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Apr 15, 2023, 04:36 PMRetirement kinda sucks anyway unless you got that sweet $$$.  If you have relatives, they're just going to shove you into a nursing home the first chance they get.

yeah good point

i'll set up my venmo so you can send me your social security payout since it's such a burden

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Apr 15, 2023, 04:36 PMRetirement kinda sucks anyway unless you got that sweet $$$.  If you have relatives, they're just going to shove you into a nursing home the first chance they get.

boo to this post
Retirement age should certainly be adjusted to the type of work someone does

Quote from: Marie Monday on Apr 15, 2023, 07:15 PM

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Apr 15, 2023, 04:36 PMRetirement kinda sucks anyway unless you got that sweet $$$.  If you have relatives, they're just going to shove you into a nursing home the first chance they get.

boo to this post
Retirement age should certainly be adjusted to the type of work someone does

i definitely think young people often have no clue how much elderly people suffer during physical labor

in america doctors won't even grant temporary disability to a person with a broken foot who has to stand all day

i'm not even talking about time off with pay but many walmart fast food type jobs...

yall know the story

people in their 70's with their backs and knees cracking standing there smiling ringing up the registers and then moping up before they leave - it's inhumane - it's savage and cruel and positively abusive

people say oh they want to work and yakity yak - people will say that when they have to work because you have to adopt that mentality or eat shotgun shells but try an experiment where you give people enough to live on and see who chooses easy days with a gentle walk and who chooses eight hours plus in some chain restaurant gulag

I wonder if AI and its advances will be what ultimately leads to UBI?

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 10:19 PMI wonder if AI and its advances will be what ultimately leads to UBI?

caring for the disenfranchised has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with culture

no technological revolution will do anything but further depress the impoverished until we collectively decide that the poor suffering at the expense of the rich is unacceptable

we've had the scientific applications to largely alleviate the harsh edges of poverty since the advent of agriculture

to start we need to stop worshipping "merit"

Quote from: Marie Monday on Apr 15, 2023, 07:15 PMboo to this post
Retirement age should certainly be adjusted to the type of work someone does

Sure.  I mean, that's what the millitary service guys do for the most part.  They put in about 20 years or so then retire in their late 40's / early 50's.

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 10:19 PMI wonder if AI and its advances will be what ultimately leads to UBI?

Probably.

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 15, 2023, 05:06 PMyeah good point

i'll set up my venmo so you can send me your social security payout since it's such a burden

SS is gonna be exhausted by the time I get to that age, so no dice.

Florida GOP lawmakers clear path for DeSantis to run for president without resigning (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/28/politics/ron-desantis-president-florida-resign-to-run/index.html)

QuoteFlorida officials are threatening to revoke the teaching license of a school superintendent who criticized Gov. Ron DeSantis, accusing the educator of violating several statutes and DeSantis directives and allowing his "personal political views" to guide his leadership.

Such a revocation by the state Department of Education could allow DeSantis to remove Leon County Superintendent Rocky Hanna from his elected office. The Republican governor did that last year to an elected Democratic prosecutor in the Tampa Bay area who disagreed with his positions limiting abortion and medical care for transgender teens and indicated he might not enforce new laws in those areas.

Disney also sued DeSantis this week, saying he targeted its Orlando theme parks for retribution after it criticized the governor's so-called "Don't Say Gay" law that then banned the discussion of sexuality and gender in early grades, but has since been expanded.

Nicolae Ceaușescu did a lot of this kind of stuff.

Even Ceaușescu wouldn't have gone after Mickey Mouse (...actually, he probably would've)

Quote from: SGR on Apr 29, 2023, 10:17 PMEven Ceaușescu wouldn't have gone after Mickey Mouse (...actually, he probably would've)

i read a biography on him and what impressed me was how little it took to scare the people into submission


until one special christmas day (if you're reading this ronnie, know your fucking history, tough guy)

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 29, 2023, 10:51 PMi read a biography on him and what impressed me was how little it took to scare the people into submission


until one special christmas day (if you're reading this ronnie, know your fucking history, tough guy)

Do you remember what the name of the book was? I read a book on that time period of Romania, but it wasn't specifically a biography of the guy

Quote from: SGR on Apr 29, 2023, 11:49 PMDo you remember what the name of the book was? I read a book on that time period of Romania, but it wasn't specifically a biography of the guy

yes and i highly recommend it:


Kiss the Hand You Cannot Bite: The Rise and Fall of the Ceausescus by Edward Behr

Quote from: Toy Revolver on Apr 30, 2023, 12:09 AMyes and i highly recommend it:


Kiss the Hand You Cannot Bite: The Rise and Fall of the Ceausescus by Edward Behr

Thanks man! I'll check it out!

Florida rejects Holocaust ed textbooks in clampdown on 'woke' instruction

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-742839

QuoteOne of this year's rejected Holocaust textbooks was called "Modern Genocides," and the other was an online learning course titled "History of the Holocaust." Both were intended for high school students.

disney and jews are two groups you don't want to fuck with in florida

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 13, 2023, 11:33 AMFlorida rejects Holocaust ed textbooks in clampdown on 'woke' instruction

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-742839

disney and jews are two groups you don't want to fuck with in florida

I still think that going after Disney ("they're going after Mickey Mouse!") is a losing political proposition.

"Another law, called the "Stop WOKE Act," bans educators from making students feel guilt or shame in relation to historical events."

Despite that the term 'woke' being included in an official government act seems ridiculous to me, I think I agree with this. I don't know why children should be made to feel guilty for things they had nothing to do with. They should be taught though why historical events were wrong so that they'd never repeat it or accept the motivations for why these events happened into their own worldview.

Quote from: SGR on May 13, 2023, 05:00 PMI still think that going after Disney ("they're going after Mickey Mouse!") is a losing political proposition.

"Another law, called the "Stop WOKE Act," bans educators from making students feel guilt or shame in relation to historical events."

Despite that the term 'woke' being included in an official government act seems ridiculous to me, I think I agree with this. I don't know why children should be made to feel guilty for things they had nothing to do with. They should be taught though why historical events were wrong so that they'd never repeat it or accept the motivations for why these events happened into their own worldview.

well i used to teach history not that makes me an authority or anything but i felt like on some things the truth is the truth - it's not about feelings - a had black students complain about how much a harped on slavery because they felt like it made black people seem weak - i had students that asked indignantly why i focused so much on specific details concerning horrific events

that's what fucking happened that's why

also, and how i got away with it god only knows, i was completely open about my total disgust with america and so on but i told them other people just as smart as me and much smarter than me disagree with me - i'm telling you my OPINION (when it was opinion)

i tried very hard to emphasize that everyone has an angle and it's up to them to figure out what it is but there is no objective history- it's cooked into everything including what i decide to emphasize and that also goes for teachers who pretend they're objective or even mistakenly think they are

one example of something kind of interesting was i had a student who argued that plague deaths in europe were more important than native american plague deaths because europeans had more geopolitical influence and i was like lost futures are just as important in my opinion

her mom came in and i immediately started complimenting her daughter for her excellent engagement and she was like oh i figured you were so liberal you might hold her positions against her and i was like nah it's not like that at all and after that her mom said she was really glad her daughter was in my class

but it doesn't really matter if it's hillary and no child left behind or desantis anti wokism - to me people who don't know shit about what it means to be a good teacher should mind their own fucking business

i know i'll get heat for equating the two but no child left behind was devastating for the lower quartile - black poor disenfranchised students were profoundly hurt

it's not the same politically as directly attacking a minority like desantis but in terms of actual damage no child left behind had a lot more carnage than people realize

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 13, 2023, 11:33 AMdisney and jews are two groups you don't want to fuck with in florida

(https://gifdb.com/images/file/dave-chappelle-okay-reaction-3gss2ylj7sw433yh.gif)

Quote from: Nimbly9 on May 13, 2023, 10:16 PM(https://gifdb.com/images/file/dave-chappelle-okay-reaction-3gss2ylj7sw433yh.gif)

that skit was so funny

when he said he saw ye's tweet he noticed he put two words together that never ends well "the" and "jews" lol

Quote from: SGR on Apr 15, 2023, 10:19 PMI wonder if AI and its advances will be what ultimately leads to UBI?

it will be the last thing humans invent

Quote from: Jwb on May 14, 2023, 06:36 AMit will be the last thing humans invent

You sound like an AI pessimist  :laughing:

I believe they're working on a program for one as we speak. GloomBOT I think it's called.

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 13, 2023, 06:04 PMwell i used to teach history not that makes me an authority or anything but i felt like on some things the truth is the truth - it's not about feelings - a had black students complain about how much a harped on slavery because they felt like it made black people seem weak - i had students that asked indignantly why i focused so much on specific details concerning horrific events

that's what fucking happened that's why

also, and how i got away with it god only knows, i was completely open about my total disgust with america and so on but i told them other people just as smart as me and much smarter than me disagree with me - i'm telling you my OPINION (when it was opinion)

i tried very hard to emphasize that everyone has an angle and it's up to them to figure out what it is but there is no objective history- it's cooked into everything including what i decide to emphasize and that also goes for teachers who pretend they're objective or even mistakenly think they are

one example of something kind of interesting was i had a student who argued that plague deaths in europe were more important than native american plague deaths because europeans had more geopolitical influence and i was like lost futures are just as important in my opinion

her mom came in and i immediately started complimenting her daughter for her excellent engagement and she was like oh i figured you were so liberal you might hold her positions against her and i was like nah it's not like that at all and after that her mom said she was really glad her daughter was in my class

but it doesn't really matter if it's hillary and no child left behind or desantis anti wokism - to me people who don't know shit about what it means to be a good teacher should mind their own fucking business

i know i'll get heat for equating the two but no child left behind was devastating for the lower quartile - black poor disenfranchised students were profoundly hurt

it's not the same politically as directly attacking a minority like desantis but in terms of actual damage no child left behind had a lot more carnage than people realize

As someone who wish he had gone into teaching, I think the number one job of a teacher is to teach the class to the best of his/her knowledge and then let the student make up his/her own mind, so good job there, TR.

As for No Child Left Behind, I think Bush meant well, but he was so clueless.

Thanks

Yeah Bush...

the reason why i harp on hillary is because my union dues never went to republican campaigns - fucking florida doesn't even have a strike fund - your union dues are basically just monthly donations to the democratic party -

there's no possible way i wouldn't be in the union no matter how flawed i would never choose to not be a part of the united organized labor voice

and many members of the local union hated me because i told them they (we) fucking suck at every meeting

but this clip which might seem innocuous is exactly why i hated hillary so fucking much

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4570013/user-clip-hillary-clinton-iowa-common-core-child-left

you have to understand that everything she's saying can be translated into "we, who are the benevolent and all knowing government will control everything you do in the classroom because we know and the people who are actually in the classroom with the students every day don't understand what to do"



i was infuriated by this shit and why my union dues endorsed politicians who advocated for me to have LESS autonomy

made no fucking sense -

and the union would send emails about totally unrelated shit like abortion or gun control

of course i'm pro-choice but my union is supposed to be fighting for my professional well-being

successful unions like the nba's and the nfl's and airline pilots are all about the members

teachers union is just a branch of the democratic party which as far as i know has never been pro-labor

you also gotta know common core was just a giant money grab for multi billion dollar testing industry

and they are absolute vampires living on the blood of american children

Oh, don't get me started on Hillary. In many ways I blame her and her obsession with power for the mess we're in today. I mean do you think Trump would have beaten anyone else?

She botched up the Clinton health plan with her bible sized rules and regulations. We should have seen her ambition when she was First Lady. She said nasty things about Obama when they ran in 2008 and pulled her own Brian Williams type story over Bosnia (and somehow got away with it). And, of course, something could have happened to Obama much like RFK in 1968.That went over well. Of course she blamed her handlers for everything when she lost.

I'm pretty much a Liberal Democrat with Green leanings, but if Hillary had won the nomination in 2008, I would have voted for McCain. I would have voted for him or Romney in 2016 as well but Trump, well, he we now know how scary he was/is, don't we?

the horrible thing about mccain was giving legitimacy to sarah palin which i think helped trump but you gotta take a little leap of logic with me to get there - it's the circus-afication of the republican party i'm talking about

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 14, 2023, 05:17 PMthe horrible thing about mccain was giving legitimacy to sarah palin which i think helped trump but you gotta take a little leap of logic with me to get there - it's the circus-afication of the republican party i'm talking about

Of course, had Clinton stolen the 2008 nomination, McCain never would have picked Palin as his running mate, such was the cynicism of the party. He really wanted Lindsey Graham who, as we now know, is just a political animal like the rest of them.

did yall delete my joke about at least lindsay graham probably can give a proper blowjob?

Florida teacher investigated by state agency for showing Disney movie in class

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/state/2023/05/14/florida-teacher-investigated-by-desantis-admin-for-showing-disney-film-strange-world/70211841007/

so showing a movie with a gay character is indoctrination but showing movies with straight characters isn't

ok

Right wing fundies think all LGBT people are perverted sexual deviant pedophiles who are coming for the kids. Some are literally saying it out loud now.

If a cis, gender conforming man kisses a cis, gender conforming woman it's fine to show kids, but anything else is sexual grooming to the right, and that's not an exaggeration.

QuoteRodriguez also said she has called DOE about other issues in the district and believes children should not be "a pawn in the crossfire" of liberal political agendas.

"As a leader in this community, I'm not going to stand by and allow this minority to infiltrate our schools," she said. 

goddamn that's some serious hate

if you watch the tik tok of the teacher they're attacking it's scary

i saw a statistic that there have been over a hundred anti-lgbtq bills introduced this year

i have never seen anything like it -

it's very similar to how hitler started and that's just the truth

There's a convo to be had about sexual education in schools but the lawmakers aren't smart enough to engage in that conversation in any kind of meaningful fashion.  They're no better than their worst "woke" opposition in that sense.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on May 16, 2023, 05:56 PMRight wing fundies think all LGBT people are perverted sexual deviant pedophiles who are coming for the kids. Some are literally saying it out loud now.

Probably because some of the same people publicly advocating hard for LGBTQ+ causes also advocate for MAP as something else to add to that umbrella.  Doesn't mean it'll ever actually happen, but you'd never see a so-called "conservative" sex therapist trying to make that case.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/08/prison-sex-therapist-defends-pedophiles-as-minor-attracted-persons-outraging-victim-advocates.html

It's not sexual education though. It's just teaching kids that it's valid and normal for people to have two dads, or that a male assigned classmate started wearing ribbons in her hair and going by she/her pronouns. If that's sexual education then so is talking about cishet relationships or any gendered concepts.

They want to rigidly enforce conformity, the "LGBT are perverted groomers" is a convenient smokescreen.

Edit: and as for the "MAP" thing, that's not actually relevant at all, nobody is defending teaching that to children. And either way the actual LGBT community denounces pedophilia. You can't point to a couple people who say they support LGBT and pedophilia and say it represents LGBT culture. They are a fringe minority at best and 4chan trolls more likely.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on May 16, 2023, 09:21 PMIt's not sexual education though. It's just teaching kids that it's valid and normal for people to have two dads, or that a male assigned classmate started wearing ribbons in her hair and going by she/her pronouns. If that's sexual education then so is talking about cishet relationships or any gendered concepts.

They want to rigidly enforce conformity, the "LGBT are perverted groomers" is a convenient smokescreen.

Just out of curiosity, in what classes are they teaching kids about the family unit at all? I went through social studies classes and biology classes all through kindergarten, elementary, etc. and I just picked up on the idea of family structure through cultural osmosis.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on May 16, 2023, 09:21 PMEdit: and as for the "MAP" thing, that's not actually relevant at all, nobody is defending teaching that to children.

I didn't say it was being taught to kids.  I'm saying that the idea that "they are coming for your kids" is an idea that has gained legitimacy because of people who say stuff like that out in the public sphere.  The great thing about society is that everyone, no matter how marginalized, has a megaphone.  The worst thing about it also is that everyone has a megaphone.

I'm not necessarily talking about giving kids a "family and gender 101" lesson, I'm talking about the article TR posted where a teacher showed a film featuring an openly gay character and was reported for it. You think they would do that for a movie featuring a cishet couple?

QuoteProbably because some of the same people advocated hard for LGBTQ+ causes also advocate for MAP as something else to add to that umbrella.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/08/prison-sex-therapist-defends-pedophiles-as-minor-attracted-persons-outraging-victim-advocates.html

some things you can't act on but nobody should be hated for any sexual proclivity

not even ted bundy if he never acted on it

everything in lgbtq+ is about consenting ADULTS and there's no substatial push to add people into minors into the fold

if anything i think there's hysteria against any attraction unless the person looks at least 30

and either millions of years of evolution suddenly disappeared in the last 30 or so or a lot of heterosexual men are lying about what pleases their eyes

big tits in a bikini bouncing around at the beach - your brain doesn't think i wonder if she can buy whiskey yet it's just like damn

that's the way it is and that's the way it's going to stay no matter how hard people try to pretend it ain't so

QuoteJust out of curiosity, in what classes are they teaching kids about the family unit at all? I went through social studies classes and biology classes all through kindergarten, elementary, etc. and I just picked up on the idea of family structure through cultural osmosis.

where i live you can put you heterosexual wedding pictures up on your desk but can be fired for putting gay wedding pictures up

that's teaching kids, grooming them by right wing terminology, into heterosexuality

"cultural osmosis" is bigoted and exclusionary

I've yet to see any LGBT organization or respected figure talking about how pedophilia should be added to LGBT. Of course everyone has a megaphone, which is the exact reason that we need to differentiate between a reputable person working for a cause and a troll trying to smear the cause. It's true that a lot of people can't tell the difference and it's a tragedy.

QuoteAnd either way the actual LGBT community denounces pedophilia.

for sure, imo lgbt are actually overly zealous about it

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on May 16, 2023, 09:34 PMI'm not necessarily talking about giving kids a "family and gender 101" lesson, I'm talking about the article TR posted where a teacher showed a film featuring an openly gay character and was reported for it. You think they would do that for a movie featuring a cishet couple?

Only if there was actual sexual content. Otherwise, no.  I never saw Strange World, but I would wager a guess it doesn't have anything other than maybe a kissing scene somewhere (at most).

I read a few other sources about what the school board mom said in regards to the movie being banned.  She's a hypocrite and an idiot.

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 16, 2023, 09:40 PMnot even ted bundy if he never acted on it

If you were Ted Bundy's therapist and he told you he was feeling some "urges" to do very bad things, would you tell anyone about them or would you wait to see what he did later on?

QuoteIf you were Ted Bundy's therapist and he told you he was feeling some "urges" to do very bad things, would you tell anyone about them or would you wait to see what he did later on?

I wouldn't violate his confidentiality period.

(https://i.postimg.cc/C1H41tsP/DDFBAA61-0415-4730-98-B7-553-FADCDB2-AD.jpg)

QuotePlanned Parenthood immediately started canceling gender-affirming care appointments after the bill was signed

god forbid the medical community actually live up to their responsibilities in the face of adversity- fucking bitch ass cowards

Rumor has it that DeSantis will throw his hat into the ring for the 2024 Presidential race next week.

Does he know something we don't know, in regards to possible legal action against Trump? If that's not the case, I don't understand what the point of him running is. Trump is just going to run roughshod over him and make him look like more of a dork than he already looks. Is running 'to the right' of Trump really the best strategy here?

DeSantis is angling to run to the right of Trump on abortion, guns and more (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/18/politics/desantis-trump-issues/index.html#:~:text=Florida%20Gov.%20Ron%20DeSantis%20has,broke%20his%20silence%20on%20both.)

fun fact: if you rearrange the letters in "desantis" you get "deis nats" which sounds very similar to the things he can lick

some things are starting to point to trolls being right that disney might leave florida

south carolina is making bids for it

slightly related

https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/disney-scraps-plans-for-new-florida-campus/

QuoteDisney on Thursday upped the ante in its battle with Florida's Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, and it cost his state 2,000 white-collar jobs.

Disney is scrapping plans to build a $1 billion office complex in Florida, citing "changing business conditions," according to a memo provided by a Disney spokesperson.

I saw some MSNBC thing that said that campus project was basically in limbo for the past few years. I'm all for Disney creating good jobs...assuming they were actually going to do it in the first place.

I think at this point they'd be better off setting up camp in another state anyway. They'll get a better deal than anything they've ever had in the sunshine state.

Quote from: Nimbly9 on May 19, 2023, 03:03 PMI saw some MSNBC thing that said that campus project was basically in limbo for the past few years. I'm all for Disney creating good jobs...assuming they were actually going to do it in the first place.

I think at this point they'd be better off setting up camp in another state anyway. They'll get a better deal than anything they've ever had in the sunshine state.

yeah but those states are bobo

we're florida

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 19, 2023, 03:41 PMyeah but those states are bobo

we're florida

Look at the bright side - maybe Ohio will give them some kind of special sovereignty and then you'll actually have a reason to visit Akron.  ;D

Quote from: Nimbly9 on May 19, 2023, 03:45 PMLook at the bright side - maybe Ohio will give them some kind of special sovereignty and then you'll actually have a reason to visit Akron.  ;D

gross

Big problem for Disney is the only states that would take in Disney are the blue ones and most of them have winters. The one state that is warm is California and they have Disneyland there already. I suppose they could set up some winter wonderland in the Mid-Atlantic someplace (Are you listening, Maryland?)

Quote from: Rubber Soul on May 20, 2023, 12:56 PMBig problem for Disney is the only states that would take in Disney are the blue ones and most of them have winters. The one state that is warm is California and they have Disneyland there already. I suppose they could set up some winter wonderland in the Mid-Atlantic someplace (Are you listening, Maryland?)

wtfru talkin bout willis

Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi would all nut all over themselves to get even a small branch of Disney.

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 20, 2023, 01:13 PMwtfru talkin bout willis

Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi would all nut all over themselves to get even a small branch of Disney.

Yeah, but they're all fundamentalist Christian states. Do you really think Disney would go someplace that doesn't tolerate LGBTQ?

Quote from: Rubber Soul on May 20, 2023, 01:49 PMYeah, but they're all fundamentalist Christian states. Do you really think Disney would go someplace that doesn't tolerate LGBTQ?

you said

Quotethe only states that would take in Disney are the blue ones

but no ... disney ain't going to any of those dying dismal shitholes i mentioned

but let's be honest, disney is only pro anything because it's the right business move

they dgaf about lgbt they care about m o n e y and they know being on the right side of history is good for their brand long term

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 20, 2023, 02:33 PMyou said

but no ... disney ain't going to any of those dying dismal shitholes i mentioned

but let's be honest, disney is only pro anything because it's the right business move

they dgaf about lgbt they care about m o n e y and they know being on the right side of history is good for their brand long term

Sure, which is why I can't see them in a red state like Alabama for example.

Quotethe only states that would take in Disney are the blue ones

goddamn son, they got you on percs ?

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4013835-naacp-issues-travel-warning-in-florida-the-state-has-become-hostile-to-black-americans/

NAACP issues travel warning in Florida: the state 'has become hostile to Black Americans'

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 21, 2023, 11:18 AMhttps://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4013835-naacp-issues-travel-warning-in-florida-the-state-has-become-hostile-to-black-americans/

NAACP issues travel warning in Florida: the state 'has become hostile to Black Americans'

I think Florida is becoming hostile to all human beings. :(

Quote from: Toy Revolver on May 21, 2023, 11:18 AMhttps://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4013835-naacp-issues-travel-warning-in-florida-the-state-has-become-hostile-to-black-americans/

NAACP issues travel warning in Florida: the state 'has become hostile to Black Americans'

This article reads like its written by someone who has never been outside.

Quote from: Dr_Rez on Apr 29, 2024, 11:30 PMThis article reads like its written by someone who has never been outside.

You're a little late Rez, I'm sorry to inform you of this, but DeSantis already dropped out.  ;)