Something Completely Different

New forum, new summer - but please don't imagine that you can escape the old problems and preoccupations!


All the signs and scientists are still pointing in one direction: trouble ahead for the whole planet. Here's some depressing info about how this year is shaping up so far:-

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/17/world/four-climate-charts-extreme-weather-heat-oceans/index.html

Where I live we are reaching 39°C at midday and people well-used to a hot climate are commenting on how hot it is.  I wonder how you guys are experiencing/responding to climate probs ?

With an open plan, kitchen-living-dining house, a/c becomes a very expensive luxury, but a friend of mine has decided to go for it, and is more-or-less air-conditioning his whole house. That's an unusually extreme approach and is also not environment-friendly. 

It got to 40°c here last summer and it was an experience. Not a good one either. It was unbearable and I remember really, really wishing it would be over.

I'm a bit concerned. 40° is absolutely outrageous for England.

If I allowed myself to be completely selfish, I'd be like YES bring it on!! Because I love these hot, dry summers. 2018 was amazing and it looks like this might be another one.

Living in Norway, I've never seen 40 Cs, at least not in the shade.

Of course it destroys crops and fucks us over in a myriad of ways and then there's all those other countries and places that have it so much worse than us, etc.

Shame of the West's fast fashion addiction: Mountain of discarded clothes in Chile can now be seen from SPACE (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12214989/Mountain-discarded-clothes-Chile-seen-SPACE.html)

QuoteA mountain of discarded clothes in Chile has become so large it can be seen from space.

The red-rocked desert of Chile's Atacama plateau has become a dumping ground for the West's used and faulty fashion items in recent years, with everything from ski boots to Christmas sweaters ending up in landfill in the area.

The growing and increasingly toxic pile of discarded clothes reflects the leftovers of the roughly 59,000 tons of used and unsold clothing that arrives at Chile's Iquique port each year from Europe, Asia and the United States.

Whatever can't be sold across South America stays here, as it slowly decays.

^ Yeah, "Shame" is a well-chosen word for that - and while we're on the topic, shame on the fashion industry, which endlessly promotes the idea:
the coolest people chuck out what they have for no reason and buy new stuff just for fun.

Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jun 17, 2023, 06:36 PMIt got to 40°c here last summer and it was an experience. Not a good one either. It was unbearable and I remember really, really wishing it would be over.

I'm a bit concerned. 40° is absolutely outrageous for England.

Yeah, that's really extreme for England and v. uncomfortable too, as homes are built for cold weather, not hot.
Here in Mexico we continue with 39° heat,and I'm doing something I've never done before: checking the day's UV intensity on a cellphone app.
It's measured by a World Health Org scale: zero to twelve. From 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. we are in the high to extreme range, with avoidance/sun-screening cream recommended. Quite normal to see people with sun-umbrellas as they queue for a bus, etc. -  but only women, now that I think of it.
How about in England? I can't imagine anyone having the courage to do something that's actually quite sensible in these extreme temps. 

40 C is pretty rough but some areas of Texas this past week have gotten up to 49 C aka 120 F. They are experiencing extreme heat in the range of above 100F with some topping out at 120.

Summer solistice is today and in the NY area it has been pretty nice like in the 70s to lower 80s(21 to 28 C).


Fast fashion is an issue but don't blame fashion culture. Thrift shops are super popular nowadays thank Macklemore and all the other hipsters. There are loads of people buying second hand clothing. There are even new stores that I have seen where parents can buy second hand clothing and trade in their own kids clothes they grow out of for store credit. Mainly to save money but it also has the added benefit of not contributing to that pile.

So as you know Lisna. I'm an activist well we pushed for NY to include green legislation in their state budget and it passed! It's called Build Public Renewables Act.

The Build Public Renewables Act (BPRA) will ensure that all state-owned properties that ordinarily receive power from the New York power authority (NYPA) are run on renewable energy by 2030.

Source with more info.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/03/new-york-renewable-energy-public-utilities

Quote from: Guybrush on Jun 20, 2023, 12:29 AMIf I allowed myself to be completely selfish, I'd be like YES bring it on!! Because I love these hot, dry summers. 2018 was amazing and it looks like this might be another one.

Living in Norway, I've never seen 40 Cs, at least not in the shade.

Of course it destroys crops and fucks us over in a myriad of ways and then there's all those other countries and places that have it so much worse than us, etc.

I spent all of last August in Spain with no AC and it was in the ballpark of 40C basically every day, the only exceptions being a few days when it was even hotter. I had a great time there, but I don't ever want to be that hot for that long ever again.

^ It's a pity it got so hot for you, Janszoon. At those kind of temps, it's pretty difficult to take an interest in anything except where the next cold drink is coming from. :(
The centre of Spain, afaik, is on its way to becoming a desert, because of extended periods of drought.

Spooky drought church in Mexico:
- built 1675
- abandoned due to plagues in village 1776
- flooded in reservoir project 1966
- June 2023: "I'm back, baby!"

(https://i.ndtvimg.com/i/2015-10/mexico-church-afp_650x400_61445565432.jpg)

(https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/storage/image/iglesia-quechula-sequia-mexico-200623.jpg?w=670&h=447)

Quote from: DJChameleon on Jun 21, 2023, 12:14 PMSo as you know Lisna. I'm an activist well we pushed for NY to include green legislation in their state budget and it passed! It's called Build Public Renewables Act.

The Build Public Renewables Act (BPRA) will ensure that all state-owned properties that ordinarily receive power from the New York power authority (NYPA) are run on renewable energy by 2030.

Source with more info.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/03/new-york-renewable-energy-public-utilities

Yep, I noticed your activism during a discussion in the old Environment thread that we had. Good for you!
Also, good for "Macklemore and all other hipsters".
Memoirs of an old-school proto-hipster:  I was looking for a coat in a second-hand Army Surplus store in London one winter, when I noticed Annie Lennox, working her way towards me from the other end of the coat rack. As our hands brushed together, she whispered, "You're my kind of guy, Lisna".... 

Temps around the world are off the charts this month, as most of us know. Here are extracts from an analysis that CNN have posted today:-

Quote[Scientists] are not holding back – "extraordinary," "terrifying" and "uncharted territory" are just a few of the ways they have described the recent spike in global temperature.

This week, the planet's average daily temperature soared to highs unseen in modern records ... they are "almost certainly" the warmest the planet has seen over a much longer time period – "probably going back at least 100,000 years," according to Jennifer Francis, a senior scientist at Woodwell Climate Research Center.

"It's quite frustrating," Otto said. The world gets hung up on blockbuster records but "these heat records are not exciting numbers," she told CNN. "They mean that people and ecosystems are dying, that people are losing their livelihoods, that agricultural land will be unusable."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/08/world/extreme-global-temperature-heat-records-climate/index.html

And here's a graphic to worry about:-

 (https://images.axios.com/iekXbzVzczRpFj7CNl0_akpl33I=/0x0:1280x720/1920x1080/2023/05/01/1682902952733.png)

The really worrying thing about the sea temp is the quantity of heat energy that has gone into the sea to cause that temp rise. Think of when you boil water: it takes quite a while because the water is so good at absorbing heat, so it has like a heat inertia or something, and right now the planet has, locked in, an awful lot of warmer-than-usual water.

Quote from: Lisnaholic on Jul 10, 2023, 03:14 PMTemps around the world are off the charts this month, as most of us know. Here are extracts from an analysis that CNN have posted today:-
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/08/world/extreme-global-temperature-heat-records-climate/index.html

And here's a graphic to worry about:-

 (https://images.axios.com/iekXbzVzczRpFj7CNl0_akpl33I=/0x0:1280x720/1920x1080/2023/05/01/1682902952733.png)

The really worrying thing about the sea temp is the quantity of heat energy that has gone into the sea to cause that temp rise. Think of when you boil water: it takes quite a while because the water is so good at absorbing heat, so it has like a heat inertia or something, and right now the planet has, locked in, an awful lot of warmer-than-usual water.

Thank you for posting this. I was going to post a similar thing but just been super busy.

Another worrying thing about the water being so warm is hurricane season. The hurricanes will be stronger than ever because of how warm the water temperatures are.

Locally I experienced flooding in my area. In 6 hours around 9 inches or so of rain fell and destroyed some roads especially around bear mountain and west point in highland falls. They declared a state of emergency for my county.

Here are a few pics.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zbrqm4cj37zy8yjs82h1p/Screenshot_20230710_055432_Facebook.jpg?rlkey=4pp2kgbp1uquydaia1lh3oqnv&dl=0


https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3x8tfwm3qgrv9jxjgfujp/Screenshot_20230710_055410_Facebook.jpg?rlkey=q0nf07obm4f2jm8lgupdf5znj&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ew4gs3d4foknqcsof3y6b/Screenshot_20230710_055403_Facebook.jpg?rlkey=ebnawyhs2j73usa3nu6pz8uc7&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/863rb7hmjywwncs140ey6/Screenshot_20230710_055352_Facebook.jpg?rlkey=ljvs1du5q4307cbwb0tclr9xk&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3rekm1zt2ffgx493meqsm/Screenshot_20230710_052703_Facebook.jpg?rlkey=k9upctx0iiao3olsubxe8i481&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/owr2v9yamnk7rcceg4519/Screenshot_20230710_023818_Facebook.jpg?rlkey=6aoib4sivhsl6u7cw5df44dri&dl=0

One thing I don't get is why people feel the need to go out and drive in it. Stay the fuck at home if it's raining heavy like that.

Safe for Swimming? (https://environmentamerica.org/resources/safe-for-swimming/)

QuoteRoughly one-half of U.S. beaches had potentially unsafe contamination levels in 2022

In 2022, 1,761 out of 3,192 tested beaches nationwide (55%) experienced at least one day on which fecal contamination reached potentially unsafe levels – that is, exceeding EPA's most protective "Beach Action Value," a conservative, precautionary tool states can use to make beach notification decisions. Beaches may also have experienced contamination on days when testing did not take place. (See "Methodology" below.)

And 363 beaches – approximately one out of every nine beaches tested nationwide – had potentially unsafe levels of fecal contamination on at least 25% of the days on which testing took place.

Quote from: Psy-Fi on Jul 11, 2023, 01:30 PMAnd 363 beaches – approximately one out of every nine beaches tested nationwide – had potentially unsafe levels of fecal contamination on at least 25% of the days on which testing took place.

That's some shitty news.

Quote from: Janszoon on Jul 11, 2023, 11:30 PMThat's some shitty news.

If the sharks don't get you, the brown trout will.

Quote from: Psy-Fi on Jul 11, 2023, 11:45 PMIf the sharks don't get you, the brown trout will.

Speaking of sharks, people don't get why there is a rise in sharks swimming closer to beaches. It's mostly because rip currents have been wonky lately and end up pulling them closer to shore.

About untreated wastewater getting into our natural recipients.. It's a problem I'm somewhat aware of due to my line of work, but I'm also aware that most people have no idea. They also don't understand the staggering amount of money and investment needed to fix it.

In Norway, but probably much of the world, a lot of sewage infrastructure is old. It's from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. Ideally, it should last 100 years, but the reality is it doesn't. And since it was dug down, population count goes up in larger cities and warming climate may mean more rainwater enters the sewage system. Or rain intensity is up so there's more water when it rains. A lot of places can't really handle any rain before there's no capacity and wastewater ends up in the closest river or ocean.

People just figure these things work, including politicians, and it's not exactly sexy election material. It doesn't get politicians attention and anyways, they're woefully ignorant on all these challenges.

Copy & paste this problem to cities in the UK, US and elsewhere.

Quote from: Guybrush on Jul 12, 2023, 08:40 PMAbout untreated wastewater getting into our natural recipients.. It's a problem I'm somewhat aware of due to my line of work, but I'm also aware that most people have no idea. They also don't understand the staggering amount of money and investment needed to fix it.

In Norway, but probably much of the world, a lot of sewage infrastructure is old. It's from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. Ideally, it should last 100 years, but the reality is it doesn't. And since it was dug down, population count goes up in larger cities and warming climate may mean more rainwater enters the sewage system. Or rain intensity is up so there's more water when it rains. A lot of places can't really handle any rain before there's no capacity and wastewater ends up in the closest river or ocean.

People just figure these things work, including politicians, and it's not exactly sexy election material. It doesn't get politicians attention and anyways, they're woefully ignorant on all these challenges.

Copy & paste this problem to cities in the UK, US and elsewhere.

Our city is currently laying new pipes to handle the waste water issues that comes from heavy rainfall. They are installing a new system for it. They have been doing construction for it going on two years now it feels like.

Quote from: DJChameleon on Jul 11, 2023, 09:58 AMOne thing I don't get is why people feel the need to go out and drive in it. Stay the fuck at home if it's raining heavy like that.

Yeah, that's something that surprises me too. Obviously some people are caught out, mid-journey by flash-flooding etc, but from what we see on the internet, there seem to be others who think "It can't be that bad, I think I'll drive out and risk it. If I hit probs then some emergency service guy can risk his life saving me: that's their job."

Quote from: Guybrush on Jul 12, 2023, 08:40 PMPeople just figure these things work, including politicians, and it's not exactly sexy election material. It doesn't get politicians attention and anyways, they're woefully ignorant on all these challenges.

Yes, guybrush. People and politicians underestimate the size, and cost of fixing, these drainage problems. Also, before disaster strikes, leakage, contamination, restricted flow etc, below ground is typically invisible. What's even worse in terms of funding is that millions of dollars could be invested, and there's still nothing to see: no shiny new bridge or roundabout to be proud of.

Quote from: DJChameleon on Jul 12, 2023, 09:51 PMOur city is currently laying new pipes to handle the waste water issues that comes from heavy rainfall. They are installing a new system for it. They have been doing construction for it going on two years now it feels like.

Just guessing, but they're probably separating rainwater from household and industry sewage. From old, rainwater and sewage has usually shared the wastewater system. Later, it's been popular to separate these into two systems. It typically takes many years of not decades to completely separate a wastewater system.

We're mostly done here, but have some shared system left in the old city center where digging up streets and putting new pipes down is particularly costly and upsetting to citizens, businesses and maybe even tourists.

Sad thing is even though our wastewater infrastructure is mostly separated, we still get lots of rain and seawater into the sewage due to leaky pipes, dumb solutions, high tide, etc. It might help, but it's not a solution.

Quote from: Guybrush on Jul 13, 2023, 12:47 AMJust guessing, but they're probably separating rainwater from household and industry sewage. From old, rainwater and sewage has usually shared the wastewater system. Later, it's been popular to separate these into two systems. It typically takes many years of not decades to completely separate a wastewater system.

We're mostly done here, but have some shared system left in the old city center where digging up streets and putting new pipes down is particularly costly and upsetting to citizens, businesses and maybe even tourists.

Sad thing is even though our wastewater infrastructure is mostly separated, we still get lots of rain and seawater into the sewage due to leaky pipes, dumb solutions, high tide, etc. It might help, but it's not a solution.

I copy pasted this from the city's website. Does this sound familiar?

The City of Newburgh is currently operating under a consent order with the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation to implement its Long Term CSO Control Plan which includes the construction of various large-scale wastewater infrastructure projects over a 15 year timeline for the purpose of reducing the frequency and duration of combined sewer overflows to the Hudson River.

World's Air Pollution: Real-time Air Quality Index (https://waqi.info/)

^ Yeah, that looks like a very worrying solution to the problems that still remain at Fukushima. :(

The warning from scientists about the destabilising of cold Arctic air and the consequent wobbling of the jet stream have come true this summer: that's the reason why heat domes are now afflicting the US and Europe. It sadly gives more credence to one of their next predictions, which is of a catastrophic global change: the disruption of global water currents:-

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/world/gulf-stream-atlantic-current-collapse-climate-scn-intl/index.html

This one feels close to home for me, because the UK enjoys mild winters thanks to the Gulf Stream and because the possible dates mentioned for the collapse include 2025. :yikes: 

It's been absolutely pissing it down for about three weeks now Lisa, I personally am loving it because I still remember those few days where we had 40c heat last year.

I nearly cried lads I'm not joking.

I remember the good old days before I was born when a global ice age was coming.

^ Haha! I also remember the good old days, when the weather was a slightly erratic, but well-ordered system following the predictable laws of nature. Sadly, it was just a brief period between (i) the era of making sacrifices to the gods to ensure a decent crop and (ii) waiting for climate-warming doomsday.

"Temperatures have been dropping for 30 years" lol....if only they knew.

Tiny Tim - The Ice Caps Are Melting

Global Boiling
 (https://www.phenomenalworld.org/analysis/global-boiling/)

Scotland has been unbearable for a good 3 or 4 summers in a row. Even when it's raining. It's so humid here now, I can barely do anything without sweating buckets.

Quote from: FETCHER. on Aug 03, 2023, 11:53 PMScotland has been unbearable for a good 3 or 4 summers in a row. Even when it's raining. It's so humid here now, I can barely do anything without sweating buckets.

Same, it was good for a couple days earlier this week but now I'm getting absolutely cooked. Summer in general is not the best time for someone who wears a full face of makeup 5 days of the week. :(

It ranges about 65 to 85 degrees here even during the peak of summer.  Compared to Texas it's basically heaven.

Quote from: Mrs. Waffles on Aug 04, 2023, 12:12 AMSame, it was good for a couple days earlier this week but now I'm getting absolutely cooked. Summer in general is not the best time for someone who wears a full face of makeup 5 days of the week. :(

I don't know shit about makeup but isn't there lighter make up available that helps during the summer months?

Quote from: DJChameleon on Aug 04, 2023, 05:15 AMI don't know shit about makeup but isn't there lighter make up available that helps during the summer months?

I'm not sure. I use waterproof makeup and antiperspirant setting spray which helps a lot but I've never really looked into specific makeup for summer.

The only real problem I have is my foundation melting and exposing my 5 o'clock shadow, which of course opens the floodgates for misgendering. It's less of a problem at my current job, but at my old job there was a lot more traffic and I was on the cash register 90% of the time so when my facial hair was exposed I got people calling me "sir" a lot more regularly even when I would wear dresses and makeup.

That will definitely be less of a problem once my laser treatments get far enough along. But in the meantime I'll look into summer makeup options, thanks!

I love it when it's toasty, but we haven't had a really good summer since 2018. This one's been really bad.

Quote from: Nimbly9 on Aug 04, 2023, 03:25 AMIt ranges about 65 to 85 degrees here even during the peak of summer.  Compared to Texas it's basically heaven.

This would be heaven. Scotland got its highest ever temp last year at about 35 degrees Celsius. This year we got a few weeks of high 20's, it has been hell.

I know us British love to moan about the weather no matter what but I'd take the cooler, pissing down weather any time over those temps. I can't even take my dog a walk :(.

Oh man, I love 35 degrees C. That's fucking sweet.

You have to spend your days close to somewhere you can take a dip, but then I do that all through summer (and my work days) anyways.

Quote from: Guybrush on Aug 05, 2023, 02:23 AMOh man, I love 35 degrees C. That's fucking sweet.

You have to spend your days close to somewhere you can take a dip, but then I do that all through summer (and my work days) anyways.

There's nowhere to do that here but that sounds lovely.

There are lakes and canals and things but you're advised not to go in them as people die all the time. It's very common in summer. They have campaigns and shit trying to get it into people's heads cos so many still ignore it and end up drowning.

One way to cool off in Britain is to travel back in time to 2010 and go for a swim in a public pool:-

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/12/england-has-lost-almost-400-swimming-pools-since-2010

Quote from: Guybrush on Aug 05, 2023, 02:23 AMOh man, I love 35 degrees C. That's fucking sweet.

You have to spend your days close to somewhere you can take a dip, but then I do that all through summer (and my work days) anyways.

No it's horrible over here 😂, no air con, no swimming pools, nothing that you usually have to help escape the heat. It's 15 degrees here today, we have overcast and it's not raining, this is my type of weather :).

21 species have been delisted from the Endangered Species Act, and not for a good reason (https://abcnews.go.com/US/21-species-delisted-endangered-species-act/story?id=104039524)

As usual with this thread, there is bad news about something that only a small group of scientists or locals care about or notice:-

Billions Of Crabs Missing Around Alaska:- https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/19/us/alaska-crabs-ocean-heat-climate/index.html

It's one more red flag for us, of course:-

QuoteTemperatures around the Arctic have warmed four times faster than the rest of the planet, scientists have reported. Climate change has triggered a rapid loss in sea ice in the Arctic region, particularly in Alaska's Bering Sea, which in turn has amplified global warming.

Kenya declares a public holiday for national campaign to plant 15 billion trees (https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/kenya-declares-surprise-public-holiday-national-campaign-plant-104683306)

QuoteThe Kenyan government says Nov. 13 will be a public holiday to allow citizens time to plant trees as part of its ambitious plan to grow 15 billion new trees by 2032

It's a nice enough idea but I can't see them getting anywhere near their 15 billion goal in 9 years.

^ For once some positive news in this thread: thanks, Psy-Fi! I think it's great news that a country which is not particulary wealthy is making such a national effort and grabbing global attention too : perhaps it'll shame some other countries into exploring planting schemes.

15 billion is a lot of plantings, and Kenya may well fall short, but what worries me more is that, in their haste to meet that target, they may be overlooking some key details about tree planting schemes: 


Sadly, it's not a simple, silver-bullet solution, even though most of us would like it to be. :(

The Kenyan holiday is similar to what the rest of the world does every earth day in April. It's already a holiday but I think the slight difference is that you still have to work on Earth Day for most people.

Quote from: Lisnaholic on Nov 07, 2023, 03:31 PM^ For once some positive news in this thread: thanks, Psy-Fi! I think it's great news that a country which is not particulary wealthy is making such a national effort and grabbing global attention too : perhaps it'll shame some other countries into exploring planting schemes.

15 billion is a lot of plantings, and Kenya may well fall short, but what worries me more is that, in their haste to meet that target, they may be overlooking some key details about tree planting schemes: 

Sadly, it's not a simple, silver-bullet solution, even though most of us would like it to be. :(

Very good video that I agree with.

Another interesting point (imo) is for certain plants, like say some spruce, you might see graphs like this:

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yanliang-Wang/publication/288166146/figure/fig1/AS:613970067062804@1523393279666/Changes-in-the-rate-of-C3-photosynthesis-and-respiration-as-a-function-of-temperature.png)

Like all organisms, plants do cellular respiration. That is like us, they also breathe oxygen and expel carbon dioxide. It's just that in the presence of enough sunlight, they also do photosynthesis.

For a plant to capture carbon, the rate of photosynthesis should be higher than respiration (and also making up for nighttime when there's no photosynthesis and only respiration). It typically is, BUT by how much differs.

If you look at the graph above, it says that cellular respiration is affected more negatively by lower temperatures than photosynthesis is. So that means for this plant, it might have the most efficient carbon capture at around 10 degrees C. At 30-40, it does more respiration and would net add CO2 to the atmosphere until its inevitable death.

So if you imagine you could take a forest and just place it somewhere colder or warmer, that will affect how efficient it will be for carbon capture.

I don't think this is a huge problem or anything because I assume tree species are planted that are generally suited to the climate and will capture carbon well, but.. still interesting and maybe something to consider.

In Norway, the forests are expanding. Open areas are filling with trees, which is a bit sad for the birds and other animals that rely on these areas. Climate warming will make it so that trees can expand up / become bigger at higher altitudes, so the forests are expanding upwards where that's an option.

Like they say in the video, I believe the best thing will generally be to protect the forests we have and let them do their thing.

Essential herbicide, but at what cost? Paraquat remains in US despite bans elsewhere (https://abcnews.go.com/US/essential-herbicide-cost-paraquat-remains-us-despite-bans/story?id=102449938)

QuoteThe number of nations where paraquat, an agricultural herbicide, is allowed to be used continues to dwindle, yet paraquat continues to receive stamps of approval from federal regulators in the United States.

"Contrary to these dozens of countries, which have looked at the exact same data and have found that paraquat is too dangerous [and] too toxic to continue using, the United States Environmental Protection Agency reached the exact opposite conclusion," said Jonathan Kalmuss-Katz, a senior attorney with Earthjustice, a non-profit environmental law firm.

The global warming report card for 2023 is just in:-

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/09/climate/temperature-rise-2023-climate-copernicus-intl/index.html

^ Personally, I found this news article is too depressing to read beyond the opening statements:-

Quote

Global warming in 2023 leaped close to the limit the world is trying to avoid.

Global warming in 2023 hit 1.48 degrees Celsius, data published Tuesday shows, as the hottest year on record propelled the world just hundredths of a degree away from a critical climate threshold.

Scientists repeatedly expressed shock in 2023 as successive heat records fell, and warned the world is moving dangerously close to the 1.5-degree limit that nearly 200 countries sought to avoid in the Paris Agreement in 2015.

Round of applause for Joe Manchin and all the Republican Senators who blocked Biden's plans to turn down the heat in the USA. 

 

It's only going to get worse.

What can you do?

Too many people don't take it seriously for anything to be done now.

Yes. It troubles me to think of what kind of world it is my children and (hopefully) my children's children will have to deal with 😢

Quote from: jimmy jazz on Jan 09, 2024, 10:12 PMWhat can you do?

Too many people don't take it seriously for anything to be done now.

It's easy to feel that way, jimmy jazz, but I still think that efforts small and large should be made to reduce the damage as much as possible. In all the gloom, one heartening story is how the hole in the ozone layer was repaired through international co-operation. Without that, we would be in a much worse situation today: that means weather would be worse, floods would be displacing more millions of people. So there are many reasons to keep trying to reduce environmental damage, both in our personal lives and at the ballot box:-
i) to save people's homes, farms and lives
ii) to make the world less damaged for the next generation
iii) to have an answer when the next generation asks, "How could you have done nothing?!?"

Lastly, here's an analogy. Scientists have set off the fire alarm; if you're in a burning building, is it really the best response to say, "No point trying to escape."?

Obama - Al Gore - John Kerry - Are COLOSSAL Climate Hypocrites!

^ Yes, that's pretty damning hypocracy from John Kerry with his private jet trips ! TBH I didn't watch much beyond that because I found the four people on the sofa to be very annoying. I wish the speaker had just made his points seriously without the attempt to turn it into "entertainment".

Alas, it's always the same message from politicians, "Do as I say, not as I do- because unlike you undistinguished people, I am a special case VIP."

Seems like the best thread in which to put this statistic that I came across today. It's about land use, and shows the percentage of land  that is devoted to agriculture in eight countries.

Which of these countries would you put at the top of the list for their percentage of agricultural land ?


Have a guess, then click on the graph to see if you were as mistaken as I was:-

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.AGRI.ZS?end=2021&locations=FR-GB-US-DE-NL-ES-IE-IT&start=1969

May 4, 2024, turns out to've been a significant day in terms of oceanic statistics. :(
Here's a worrying graph that's well worth a look imo:

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/F04E/production/_133281516_era_5_global_sea_temp_lines2024-05-05-nc.png.webp)
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68921215

Notice that everything happens between just one and a half degrees of temp, but also notice that, given the total mass of the oceans, that's an awful lot of heat content. Here's a related graph:-

 (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/1955-_Ocean_heat_content_-_NOAA.svg/450px-1955-_Ocean_heat_content_-_NOAA.svg.png)

^ That graph has zettajoules on the vertical axis, and we're up about 250, since the base-line zero was set in 1957. How much is 250 zettajoules?

QuoteA joule is our standard unit of heat energy. A zettajoule is that unit with 21 zeros behind it. Here is a more practical reference: All of the energy used annually by all of the people in all of the world—all of it—adds up to one half—one half—of a zettajoule

That's a very informative and worrying post, @Lisnaholic. Thank you so much for sharing.

Quote from: Lisnaholic on Apr 30, 2024, 02:37 PMSeems like the best thread in which to put this statistic that I came across today. It's about land use, and shows the percentage of land  that is devoted to agriculture in eight countries.

Which of these countries would you put at the top of the list for their percentage of agricultural land ?

France .... Germany .... Ireland .... Italy .... Netherlands .... Spain .... United Kingdom .... United States

Have a guess, then click on the graph to see if you were as mistaken as I was:-

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.AGRI.ZS?end=2021&locations=FR-GB-US-DE-NL-ES-IE-IT&start=1969

I guessed the order would be the United States > France > Germany > United Kingdom > Spain > Italy > Ireland > Netherlands.

Spain was the only one I guessed correctly.

It makes sense to me though, because the uk has virtually no 'wild' nature (I've barely seen a square metre of land without either buildings or sheep grazing on it or something) while the US for instance does. France and Germany also more. Holland also has pretty much none but its much more urban than the uk

Yes, I have seen nature in England in places like New Forest and Dartmoor, but calling it wild would be a stretch and it's never far from something developed.

I actually find it somewhat astonishing. Norway is so rocky and mountainy, it's lacking in areas suitable for agriculture. There's not a lot of flat land and the soil layer is often thin. It might not be particularly nutritious, depending on where you are. A lot of Norway doesn't feel particularly human friendly or inviting.

The British isles seem to be Norway's opposite. No huge, jagged mountains. Most of England as well as much of Wales and southern Scotland is made of raised seabed rich with nutrients of the biota from ages gone.

It seems so lush, green and easy, like it wants people to live on it.

Quote from: Guybrush on May 09, 2024, 08:06 AMYes, I have seen nature in England in places like New Forest and Dartmoor, but calling it wild would be a stretch and it's never far from something developed.

I actually find it somewhat astonishing. Norway is so rocky and mountainy, it's lacking in areas suitable for agriculture. There's not a lot of flat land and the soil layer is often thin. It might not be particularly nutritious, depending on where you are. A lot of Norway doesn't feel particularly human friendly or inviting.

The British isles seem to be Norway's opposite. No huge, jagged mountains. Most of England as well as much of Wales and southern Scotland is made of raised seabed rich with nutrients of the biota from ages gone.

It seems so lush, green and easy, like it wants people to live on it.

^ You clearly know what you're talking about! I didn't realize that even lowland Norway had poor soil quality, so yeah, the UK has been blessed in that regard. Still, we don't come close to providing all the food the population needs: the govt figure is an alarming 46% of food is imported.

Quote from: Guybrush on May 08, 2024, 07:48 AMThat's a very informative and worrying post, @Lisnaholic. Thank you so much for sharing.

^ Thanks for the kind remark, Guybrush.
Back in 2017, when I opened an Environment thread on MB, there were still a couple of hold-out voices suggesting that global warming wasn't happening, but now, with seven more years of accumulating evidence, I don't think anyone is in doubt anymore. Ultimately, that's bad news.
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Thanks for checking the Agricultural Land link, guys :thumb:
I made the same mistakes as you, Psy-Fi, putting the USA at the top because of all those images of prairie farming in my head (Wizard of Oz, Days of Heaven, etc). It took Marie to remind me that I had overlooked those Rocky Mountains - so vast compared to the homely scale of Britain. In fact, when my students ask about England, I usually compare the countryside to The Shire in Lord of the Rings, even though that does miss out rather a lot of modern, urban Britain.

Anyone that is heavily invested in oil still thinks that global warming isn't happening.