Oct 7

[Jwb]

[DJChameleon]

to be fair to jadis, the idea isn't that you kill x amount in exchange for the x amount of people who were killed in a terrorist attack. That's ridiculous and barbaric. It would be that you have a certain military objective you consider vital for your security and are willing to take on x amount of potential deaths as a result. But the rub is what is that military objective and is it worth it?

The military objective is linked to money it always is.

[Guybrush]

To me, it looks like there might be more than just a military objective being pursued.

[DJChameleon]

To me, it looks like there might be more than just a military objective being pursued.

They want to establish a separate canal way that goes through Gaza that's why.

[Jwb]

To me, it looks like there might be more than just a military objective being pursued.

as in like they just want revenge or collective punishment? Because I think you can possibly make that argument, but you would definitely have to get more specific than just comparing the number of dead on one side vs the other. Any time a first world military tries to invade and occupy another country or territory, the deaths are always disproportionately in the side of the people being occupied. This is even more true for the initial bombing campaign.

[Guybrush]

as in like they just want revenge or collective punishment?

I was thinking more like displacing the Palestinian people and taking complete control of Gaza. Looking past any bad blood and better security, there are f.ex. gas reserves off the coast of the Gaza Strip and just better access to the mediterranean coast could be a big get.

That would ofc make it an attack on civilians and not just Hamas (with civilians being claimed as collateral).

[Jwb]

That would fall under the category of a military objective. Specifically the oldest military objective in the book: conquest.

I don't mean to use the phrase military objective to confer a sense of legitimacy or otherwise. Russia has clear military objectives in Ukraine, for example. My point is when you decide on whether a war is worth it, the vital thing to keep in mind is weighing the value of your objective vs the potential death and destruction.

[Guybrush]

That would fall under the category of a military objective. Specifically the oldest military objective in the book: conquest.

I don't mean to use the word military objective to confer a sense of legitimacy or otherwise. Russia has clear military objectives in Ukraine, for example.

Alright, well.

I thought of it more as they say their military objective is to eradicate Hamas and ensure a safe border, but their motives may also be more geopolitical. The two aren't mutually exclusive, so that's fine.

Regardless of what you call any such goal, I'd say it looks disproportionate to displace and force into hunger and crisis 1,7 million people to attack an organisation that had an estimated 20-25 000 members on October 7th, but it looks proportionate if you want to displace those 1,7 million people.

[Jwb]

I'm not saying that is what Israel is claiming as their military objective. If you read my post in response to jadis you will see that I agree with you more than him in terms of how much faith I have in their claimed military objective.

But i felt you and him were somewhat speaking past each other and I was trying to clarify what I see as the discrepancy. You say they killed and displaced x amount of people in response to a terrorist attack. He says they have done so in the process of trying to destroy said terrorist group which they regard as an existential threat. You're both describing the same basic reality. The framing is what changes everything.

[Psy-Fi]

Alarming footage appears to show President Biden forgetting Hamas' name when asked about hostages held in Gaza

"There is some movement, and I don't wanna, I don't wanna ...," the 81-year-old commander-in-chief said, pausing to stare blankly ahead.

"Let me choose my words — there's some movement, there's been ... a response from the, uh..." he said, again pausing while looking ahead with the same lost look.

"There's been a response ... from ... the opposition, but um —" he said.

Sounding confused about what he was supposed to say, Biden suddenly looked up to his left while getting much-needed guidance.

"Yes, I'm sorry from Hamas," he says of the terror group behind the war with key US ally Israel.

Oy vey!

[SGR]

Alarming footage appears to show President Biden forgetting Hamas' name when asked about hostages held in Gaza



Oy vey!

He probably just had ice cream on the mind and was experiencing brain freeze. Give him a break, jack!

[Psy-Fi]

He probably just had ice cream on the mind and was experiencing brain freeze. Give him a break, jack!

[jimmy jazz]

Just seen that lad in the US army who set himself on fire in protest.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68405119

[SGR]

Just seen that lad in the US army who set himself on fire in protest.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68405119

So sad, and disturbing to even think about, let alone see with your own eyes. Burning to death has to be one of the worst ways to die I can think of, right up there with being eaten alive (by a bear or something).

RIP to the guy, he definitely sent a message. But the saddest part is that it was probably for nothing - this story will be a blip in the news cycle, a week will pass, and nothing will change.

[Mindy]

RIP Aaron Bushnell

sad stuff.